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Thank God..No need those expensive edting software
  
 
reedtess
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Hey Stephen thanks.
I'm enjoying the "wow" factor.



Dec 30, 2017 at 05:51 AM
Ferrophot
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Nice pussy cat. My take on PP is that if the photo is taken in near perfect conditions and well composed I can't seem to improve things beyond maybe doing the most elementary post processing. Every thing else seems to benefit from varying amounts of fiddling.
One consideration is do I want the image to reflect accurately the colours and tones that were there or should I improve on nature and to my eyes make the image 'better'? Either way I would not be without my vintage copy of Elements 7.



Dec 30, 2017 at 06:47 AM
dhphoto
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


This should be in a fixed thread for the jpeg-only crowd.

Or 'I spent all this money on gear so I don't have to do any processing'



Dec 30, 2017 at 09:52 AM
Herb
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


dhphoto wrote:
This should be in a fixed thread for the jpeg-only crowd.

Or 'I spent all this money on gear so I don't have to do any processing'

I spent a lot of money on my gear and computer stuff as well but I like to see the jpegs come out without needing much if anything. If I want to print something then I bring out the RAW and work on it, but I dont work on every photo I take. So your comment is a bit brutal and harsh.




Dec 30, 2017 at 12:05 PM
bushwacker
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


reedtess wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone use IPhone to edit any photos.
I just think that new camera equipments nowadays requires very minimal on editing side.
Thanks Chez.



using your iphone, ipad or retina screens is not the proper way to see things or to view images in standard way... when i say standard, real actual colors, sharpness, etc.

iphones, ipads macs.... they are great fantastic screens., they are good for showing off your final images. your images will always look good. but when viewed with normal ordinary monitors they suck.



Dec 30, 2017 at 12:52 PM
Gust
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Thank God..No need those expensive edting software.........
can't believe what I read.
So much more in your pics, as what you see now!



Dec 31, 2017 at 10:30 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


DPP4 is not an expensive editing program ... and likely has sufficient tools to work just fine with the capture IQ for a vast many things. It's a far different thing to say "no editing needed" vs. "no need for expensive editing".

How much PP tools we choose to use ... highly subjective.

My take on the OP's post was that he was pleased with the ooc quality of his new rig. Does that mean, "never needs editing" ... nah.

Again, congrats on the new rig.



Dec 31, 2017 at 04:00 PM
OntheRez
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


I don't mean to be overly rude, but two things are true: (1) The act of RAW conversion is PP. (2) Suggesting no PP is like claiming film doesn't need to be developed. You may be happy with what you get, and that's fine. I suggest - OTOH - that image is not born until you hold it in your mind seeking how it felt, smelt, seemed, heard, lived in you. I've worked for years on images that were technically perfect but didn't capture what I saw at that intersection of time, space, and mind.

Sometimes I find it.

Dawn at the Chiricahua. 15 years in the finding.





East from Black Mtn.




Dec 31, 2017 at 05:04 PM
ngaio
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


To add to previous responses I think humility is needed. Post processing is not easy. It takes most people years to develop the right kind of eye. It's easy to screw up. Because most of us are not born with a great eye, we can learn from those who have mastered the art through a lifetime of practice -- photographers like Charlie Cramer. If and until we approach their level of mastery we are very much limited by our narrow artistic vision, and are in fact deeply ignorant of what can be done to improve our work. Our prints are relatively mediocre and we don't appreciate why or even that they are serious flawed. Only after learning from the masters can we begin to appreciate the error of our ways.


Dec 31, 2017 at 06:58 PM
OntheRez
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


ngaio wrote:
To add to previous responses I think humility is needed. Post processing is not easy. It takes most people years to develop the right kind of eye. It's easy to screw up. Because most of us are not born with a great eye, we can learn from those who have mastered the art through a lifetime of practice -- photographers like Charlie Cramer. If and until we approach their level of mastery we are very much limited by our narrow artistic vision, and are in fact deeply ignorant of what can be done to improve our work. Our prints are
...Show more





I learn by not knowing. I learn by watching - be that great or small. I learn by stealing - and making it my own. I learn by making mistakes while continuously comparing it to what I seek. I learn what I seek by caressing/leaping/grabbing/stumbling forward (or maybe sideways and oft times back). Mostly I learn by perseverance. And yes, without humility - not necessarily to the "masters" but to the image itself - there is no learning.



Dec 31, 2017 at 07:08 PM
 

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BritBadger
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


I learn by not knowing. I learn by watching - - - - - -

Great stuff, OntheRez, but so hard!

Haven't posted for ages but this thread has got me going.

This probably belongs earlier on, but am pressing the button anyway.

When a person looks at a room what they see is a 3 dimensional, super sophisticated, virtual reality moving “image”, built in their mind from the input from all their senses, memories both new and old, emotional state, [everything dose actually look more vivid when you’re in love] and probably a lot more besides.
When a camera captures information stored in the light from a room, that is all it can store in the raw file, it’s just information. PP is how the information is sorted, selected, exaggerated, diminished, and then turned into pixels on screen or paper in order to conjure up the very human act of seeing.
The decision is, who gets to attempt control over this mind boggling task, a clever piece of electric machinery or a person?
BB



Dec 31, 2017 at 07:30 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


ngaio wrote:
To add to previous responses I think humility is needed. Post processing is not easy. It takes most people years to develop the right kind of eye. It's easy to screw up. Because most of us are not born with a great eye, we can learn from those who have mastered the art through a lifetime of practice -- photographers like Charlie Cramer.


Four hours one morning with my long-time friend Charlie taught me about 90% of what I needed to learn about digital post-processing and printing. He is not only a gifted artist and a very smart photographer, but he knows how to explain things well... and he has a brilliant wit.

The idea that photography is only about what is done in and by the camera is roughly equivalent to thinking that great writing is all about first drafts. There is not one "right" way to do these things, and photographers work in varied ways, but virtually all recognize the importance of skill and vision at various steps in the process — before making the photograph, when making it, in post, in printing.

Dan

The photograph that Charlie and I worked through on that morning was this one. Some of you might enjoy a story about the photograph posted here: https://www.gdanmitchell.com/2010/01/14/a-photograph-exposed-submerged-boulders-precipice-lake








Dec 31, 2017 at 07:58 PM
OntheRez
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Dan, if you got that good in a four-hour tutorial, then I want that man's number! I've been hacking for years with grudging progress, but… I've always admired your style. There's a luminescence in many of your images that I'd love to steal. I can get it sometimes, but it's elusive.

Read your blog link. "Let the light in" is exactly what I seek. The light here in the desert is often overwhelming - like looking at an A-bomb going off. Maybe it's sometimes letting the shadow in?



Dec 31, 2017 at 08:26 PM
henry albert
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Photography isn't always peaches and cream, shooting in perfect point-and-shoot conditions. Sometimes the universe conspires against you and serves up a smorgasbord of fugly. Dull, lifeless, uneven light coverage. Cycling, flickering bulbs. Thick, tinted hockey glass covered in puck marks, water droplets, condensation. Glare and reflections on both sides. ISOs of 10,000-12,800. When all that happens and the images coming out of your high tech marvel look like crap, well, you won't be poo-pooing PP skills and software. You'll be hoping they'll help you salvage something usable. Not a fine art contest winner, just something to get the job done. Like last nite.

Before and after.










  NIKON D4    116mm    f/2.8    1/800s    10000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Dec 31, 2017 at 09:14 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


For years I have been espousing the relationship between knowing the message of your image, and the application of your PP to help convey the desired message of conveyance to your audience(s) ... be that solely for yourself, for clients or the general masses.

That is based on the perspective that a written, verbal message begins with a thought to be conveyed ... from which the creator / author utilizes the tools of vocabulary, grammar, punctuation, syntax, etc. to construct the composite of his message for the reader to unveil.

Ours is a non-verbal message that likewise begins with a message to be conveyed. Our tools are everything from camera / lens selection to perspective to composition to lighting, to the vast array of components contained within the context of PP (contrast, sat, lum, hue, etc.).

To the degree that we construct our message to be conveyed, it can range from the simplicity of "Dick & Jane" to the complexity of "Shakespeare". From the simplicity of a recorded moment in time, to the finesse of fine art we have similar tools at our disposal regarding how to refine / finish our message, following its original capture (i.e. akin to the negative, or draft).

Whether we so choose to have the processing contained within the pre-programming of the capture be our "finished" point, salvaging corrections or pursue the tenants of more complex post-capture, masterly of processing is entirely up to us.

Does your processing software need to be expensive to achieve your desired results ... nope. No more so than a writer needs to use a Mont Blanc fountain pen to craft his message. Does it help to have available tools for finishing our desired message, yup. Which tools you choose to use (i.e. expensive or not) ... well, there is certainly more than one way to go about it.

My take on the OP, is that he is simply happy that his ooc (starting point, if you will) is much closer to his liking than his previous gear. For that, his enthusiasm is duly noted that he feels he can rely on the capture portion more so than before. So again, congrats on the new rig.

In the end, it is always ... Your Pic, Your Message, Your Call.






Dec 31, 2017 at 09:33 PM
Milan Hutera
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


While it's true that modern cameras jpeg engines have gotten considerably better compared to the past, I still wouldn't want to end up with a file that has:
- baked in white balance temperature
- baked in tint
- baked in noise reduction
- baked in sharpening - this alone can kill a photo if set up wrong
- baked in shadow/hightlight recovery
- little to no headroom for edits thanks to stripped away data

I just spent about 4 - 5 hours on a duo of hdr panoramas that had so many local and global adjustments done they were probably my most complex photos to date. And I did all those adjustments not to "Ryand Dyarize" it (read as "look like a render from latter Middle Earth movies"), but to make it look right.

Another thing to consider - with all them raws and expensive software, you can return to photos that are several years old and make them ..... great.... again.... I recently redid a bunch of photos from an Opera I shot 5 years ago. Man, you wouldn't want to see "before" photos. With JPEG.... I'd be stuck with the awful ones.



Dec 31, 2017 at 09:53 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Milan Hutera wrote:
While it's true that modern cameras jpeg engines have gotten considerably better compared to the past, I still wouldn't want to end up with a file that has:
- baked in white balance temperature
- baked in tint
- baked in noise reduction
- baked in sharpening - this alone can kill a photo if set up wrong
- baked in shadow/hightlight recovery
- little to no headroom for edits thanks to stripped away data

All of which can be adjusted from RAW with DPP4 (i.e. not expensive software), or other software (including more expensive ones) of one's so choosing. Tools of our choosing ... highly variable to a preference.


Milan Hutera wrote:
adjustments not to "Ryand Dyarize" it (read as "look like a render from latter Middle Earth movies"), but to make it look right.

Roger that ^ for excellent correction vs. fantastical renderings. However, there seems to exist enough room in the universe for both.



Dec 31, 2017 at 10:01 PM
reedtess
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


Thank you all so much for all your input.
When I started my Photography back in mid 2000, I had Rebel XT like some of us old timer. I could not even imagine taking a shot at ISO 1600 without so much noise.
What has transpired over the years, the technology has given us the ability to widen our vision able to communicate with darkness that our images can tell a story at even over 25000 ISO. With that said, the new rig has drop the use of my PP significantly.



Dec 31, 2017 at 10:03 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


reedtess wrote:
With that said, the new rig has drop the use of my PP significantly.


Yup, that was my take on your OP from the start.



Dec 31, 2017 at 10:04 PM
Milan Hutera
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Thank God..No need those expensive edting software


RustyBug wrote:
All of which can be adjusted from RAW with DPP4 (i.e. not expensive software), or other software (including more expensive ones) of one's so choosing. Tools of our choosing ... highly variable to a preference.

Roger that ^ for excellent correction vs. fantastical renderings. However, there seems to exist enough room in the universe for both.


True, DPP is shipped with every Canon DSLR for free and can do a lot of the things I mentioned and others as well. But I'm under the impression the discussion was headed in the direction - very little or no PP required with newer cameras.



Dec 31, 2017 at 10:11 PM
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