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Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II
  
 
AGeoJO
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


ytwong wrote:
This is essentially "Wildlife photography using Sony A9" instead of "E-mount system"


Technically speaking, you are correct. The other thread that I posted before should also read “Wildlife photography using Sony A7r II”. In essence though what I meant was more “using the best and currently available Sony E-mount camera”. The AF’s performance of the A7rI III doesn’t quite match that of the A9.



Dec 17, 2017 at 09:13 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


k-h.a.w wrote:
Thanks Joshua.
I am not familiar with the Metabones adapters, as I don't own any Canon lenses.
What do the various modes do? TIA.

K-H.


Hi K-H.,
Metabones Canon EF to E version IV and V adapters have two modes. The advance mode will get you the hybrid AF just like a native Sony FE lens, in theory at least. The AF performance of this mode is lackluster at bestusing the currentl FW. Metabones needs to,get this mode to work properly. The green mode utilizes the PDAF of the camera and it delivers significantly better AF performance. With the latest FW of the A9,you can get continuous Eye-AF. And this is the mode I used exclusively on this trip.





Dec 17, 2017 at 09:27 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


AGeoJO wrote:
Hi K-H.,
Metabones Canon EF to E version IV and V adapters have two modes. The advance mode will get you the hybrid AF just like a native Sony FE lens, in theory at least. The AF performance of this mode is lackluster at bestusing the currentl FW. Metabones needs to,get this mode to work properly. The green mode utilizes the PDAF of the camera and it delivers significantly better AF performance. With the latest FW of the A9,you can get continuous Eye-AF. And this is the mode I used exclusively on this trip.



Thank you Joshua. That's good to know.
I have Nikon lenses and the Commlite AF adapter for AF-S Nikkor lenses.
With the latest A9 firmware it also supports Eye-AF.

K-H.



Dec 17, 2017 at 09:32 PM
jimmy462
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


AGeoJO wrote:
Hi Jimmy, thank you for your kind comment. The most frequent sequence I use to get 800mm effective focal length or 784mm to be exact, is as follows: Canon 400mm lens,> Canon 1.4X TC> Metabones V, Sony A9. I am attaching an image here that shows the sequence but the Sony FE 2X is replaced with the Sony FE 1.4X pictured above. Out of several combinations I have used, either using a Canon 2X only in the front of Metabones V or Sony FE 2X behind Metabones, or the combination of two 1.4X TCs as described above, I did not
...Show more

Hi Joshua,

First off, wow, nice gear combo to have at one's disposal! Thanks for the reply, it's nice to see your fearlessness in trying out all sorts of combinations!

However I'd like to revisit my bokeh question as a 400/2.8 has long been on my dream list! Specifically, the "nervous" "double image" bokeh I'm seeing in several of your posted images (note background birds with seemingly double necks)...these were taken with 400 > (Canon) TC > MB V > a9? And, also specifically, based on your, um, "parts" image , it appears that you're using the v. II version of 1.4x TC and not the v. III? So I'm guessing that perhaps the v. II is not "playing nice" with the 400mm and that this is the source of the non-smooth background blur?

Also, to clarify my "over-corrected" diagnosis from my previous post I located a layperson's discussion here...

Understanding Bokeh | B&H Explora:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/amp/photography/tips-and-solutions/understanding-bokeh

...where they discuss the difference between under- and over-correction as shown in this image...

Corrected-2.jpg (JPEG Image, 458 × 458 pixels):






...which appears to me as the cause of the double-necked background birds.

That you've ruled out the Sony TC as the cause of this form of bokeh with this lens, I'm clearly in need of doing some homework on the performance differences in shooting the 400mm IS f/2.8L II with the Canon 1.4x v. II and v. III. Thanks for helping narrow down the issue here!

Best, as always!
Jimmy G



Dec 18, 2017 at 04:06 AM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


jimmy462 wrote:
Hi Joshua,

First off, wow, nice gear combo to have at one's disposal! Thanks for the reply, it's nice to see your fearlessness in trying out all sorts of combinations!

However I'd like to revisit my bokeh question as a 400/2.8 has long been on my dream list! Specifically, the "nervous" "double image" bokeh I'm seeing in several of your posted images (note background birds with seemingly double necks)...these were taken with 400 > (Canon) TC > MB V > a9? And, also specifically, based on your, um, "parts" image , it appears that you're using the v. II version of
...Show more


Thank you, Jimmy! The Canon 1.4X TC I have is version III. If you look at the exif data, those images were taken at either 784mm and that's the result of the combo of 2 times 1.4X TCs (Canon EF Mark III and Sony FE). There are two images I included there taken with the bare lens. Those are the two of flying snow geese. As far as the bokeh rendition concerned, well, it is what it is under somewhat contrasty conditions in a very crowded area. The way bokeh is rendered has a lot to to do with the distance between your target and the background. As you notice, the forest in the background in the first two or three images was rendered smoother than the birds at the immediate location of the crane being tracked.

Here is another image I took locally using the exact same setup: Sony A9, Sony FE 1.4X TC, Metabones V, Canon 1.4X TC Mark III, Canon EF 400mm f/2.8 Mark II lens. As you can see the background is smooth although it was quite contrasty. Here, my position was a tad lower and the field included in the composition was way further away that way, maybe closer to the distance of the forest in the tracking image of the sandhill cranes of the first 3 images. But again, as far as the double looking renditions, well, it is what it is.




© AGeoJO 2017

Burrowing owl caught but first played with a June bug before devouring it

  ILCE-9    EF400mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens    784mm    f/5.6    1/2000s    320 ISO    0.0 EV  




Dec 18, 2017 at 05:11 AM
jimmy462
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


AGeoJO wrote:
Thank you, Jimmy! The Canon 1.4X TC I have is version III. If you look at the exif data, those images were taken at either 784mm and that's the result of the combo of 2 times 1.4X TCs (Canon EF Mark III and Sony FE). There are two images I included there taken with the bare lens. Those are the two of flying snow geese. As far as the bokeh rendition concerned, well, it is what it is under somewhat contrasty conditions in a very crowded area. The way bokeh is rendered has a lot to to do with the
...Show more

Hi Joshua,

Thanks for correcting me on that being a v. III TC, it looked like a II to me...

I'll have to return to my first suspicion, then, that the usage of the MB V in between the two TCs is acting like an extension tube and is the possible (and I suspect, likely) root cause of this bokeh rendering. That you ever get the chance to shoot with a dedicated Canon 2x TC v.III (sans the Sony TC) I'd be curious to see the rendering!

Again, many thanks for taking the time here on this issue. That's a fabulous setup you've got there, enjoy!


Jimmy G



Dec 18, 2017 at 05:35 AM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


jimmy462 wrote:
Hi Joshua,

Thanks for correcting me on that being a v. III TC, it looked like a II to me...

I'll have to return to my first suspicion, then, that the usage of the MB V in between the two TCs is acting like an extension tube and is the possible (and I suspect, likely) root cause of this bokeh rendering. That you ever get the chance to shoot with a dedicated Canon 2x TC v.III (sans the Sony TC) I'd be curious to see the rendering!

Again, many thanks for taking the time here on this issue. That's a fabulous
...Show more


No problem, Jimmy! I am not sure about the Metabones acting as extension tube either. As it is there to correct the flange distance difference between that of Canon and Sony E. Whether you use a TC or not, the adapter has to be used to adapt a Canon lens egardless. I do have the Canon TC 2X and used it before and I will dig out the files tomorrow and post one or two images. Like I said previously, no difference in the rendition of the bokeh, in whatever combination used. The reason I prefer to use the two 1.4X TCs is more flexibility of reach rather than just double it using the 2X TC.

Thanks,
Joshua



Dec 18, 2017 at 05:45 AM
canon.eos30d
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Very nice write-up, Joshua. #4,5,7 are beautiful from this set. I really enjoy the reading and the result shots, my friend.
Thanks for sharing.

-Tam



Dec 18, 2017 at 06:25 AM
ytwong
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


I wish more E cameras will be added to this series , especially A7R3 and A6500 !

Thanks for sharing your experience.



Dec 18, 2017 at 07:13 AM
Chris_88
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Excellent shots (as always) and lots of good information, Joshua. It will be really interesting to see how Sony's native 400 2.8 looks like spec-wise and how it compares to the pretty much flawless Canikon versions.

I hope to test drive my a7riii with the 100-400 GM next month, but here is hoping that Sony comes up with more long glass in the not so distant future.



Dec 18, 2017 at 12:56 PM
 

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Gunzorro
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Joshua -- As always, great photos and technical information. Thanks for being such a generous contributor to the forum.


Dec 18, 2017 at 01:57 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Joshua,

Have you tried this combo with 2 2X TCs? That would give you a 1600mm f/11 and theoretically the A9 should still be able to AF at f/11. I suspect it might not work very well, but some might like the reach in some circumstance and it would be interesting to know if works at all and if it works how well it works.



Dec 18, 2017 at 02:31 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Steve Spencer wrote:
Joshua,

Have you tried this combo with 2 2X TCs? That would give you a 1600mm f/11 and theoretically the A9 should still be able to AF at f/11. I suspect it might not work very well, but some might like the reach in some circumstance and it would be interesting to know if works at all and if it works how well it works.



Hi Steve, yes, I have. Here is a post from a thread regarding that, including some test and real life images: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1501034/1#14126401. I posted images of the setup for the first time in that thread as well in July 2017.



Dec 18, 2017 at 04:36 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


AGeoJO wrote:
Hi Steve, yes, I have. Here is a post from a thread regarding that, including some test and real life images: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1501034/1#14126401. I posted images of the setup for the first time in that thread as well in July 2017.


I guess I missed that in July. Thanks for showing how that works. Having AF up to f/11 does have some perks for wildlife shooting. The 1600 f/11 is pretty extreme, but the 800 f/11 with a 100-400 lens I think many people will find quite useful.



Dec 18, 2017 at 04:53 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


arbitrage wrote:
Thanks Joshua for the informative and detailed post. Mirrorless will surely equal and then surpass DSLR AF for fast wildlife in the next couple years. Native FE super telephoto lenses may be enough to get us there without an A9II. I'm sure you are eyeing the upcoming Sony 400/2.8 FE....I hope they can keep the price in check for that one.


Hi Geoff, thank you for stopping by. Yes, I am eyeing the first long FE lens alright but I do not want to think about the price Sony will put on that bad boy. For sure it would be astronomical, higher than that of the Canon when it was introduced several years ago when the exchange rate of the US $ was only about 85 Japanese yen.



Chuck Eklund wrote:
Thanks for the image, Joshua. It clarifies, for me, what you have been saying. Also your floor is very clean. Mine, not so much. I'll blame the dog.

Chuck


Hi Chuck, thank you for stopping by and your kind words.



canon.eos30d wrote:
Very nice write-up, Joshua. #4,5,7 are beautiful from this set. I really enjoy the reading and the result shots, my friend.
Thanks for sharing.

-Tam


Tam, thank you for stopping by and I am flattered by your kind words.



ytwong wrote:
I wish more E cameras will be added to this series , especially A7R3 and A6500 !

Thanks for sharing your experience.


Thank you and yes, I will try the A7r III sooner or later. I will take that camera together with the A9 to Costa Rica in February. But I will try that camera out before hand.



Chris_88 wrote:
Excellent shots (as always) and lots of good information, Joshua. It will be really interesting to see how Sony's native 400 2.8 looks like spec-wise and how it compares to the pretty much flawless Canikon versions.

I hope to test drive my a7riii with the 100-400 GM next month, but here is hoping that Sony comes up with more long glass in the not so distant future.


I appreciate your stopping by and your kind compliment, Chris! I share your sentiment about Sony's long glasses in the future.



Gunzorro wrote:
Joshua -- As always, great photos and technical information. Thanks for being such a generous contributor to the forum.


Jim, I truly appreciate your kind comment. We are a community here on FM and that's what this forum is about.



Dec 19, 2017 at 06:28 AM
Bubble
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


interesting. Thanks for sharing the image about stacking up TC. time for me to hit the field again.


Dec 19, 2017 at 07:58 AM
kimknapp
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Hmm, might have to get the Metabones V so I can try my 1.4tc in front of my Sigma 150-600 Sport!
If I remember correctly, the Metabones V is the one that has a large enough bore, correct?

Let's see, 600 x 1.4 x about 1.5 when I crop the A7Riii...

Kim



Dec 19, 2017 at 01:26 PM
Bubble
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


so i tried the stacking TC. It works. OK AF. If compare to the native 100-400 with 1.4 or 2.0 TC, the sony native still respond much faster and it is much lighter. Regardless cost, it is an subjective topic so i'll not mention it.




  X-T2    XF35mmF1.4 R lens    35mm    f/4.0    1/100s    800 ISO    +1.0 EV  




Dec 19, 2017 at 06:24 PM
MedicineMan404
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Bubble,
400DOii + 1.4tc + 1.4tc= approx (784mm)/F8 right?
FE100-400GM + 2.0=800mm F11.

So weight versus aperture.

I still have 400DOii but truth for me is if I'm to use the 2.0TC on the 100-400GM or the double 1.4TCs on the 400DOii it will be nice and bright out; in which case I'm going to choose saving weight and go with the 100-400GM and 2.0TC.

I realize it's not Joshua level with the 400/2.8 but the IQ with the 2.0 and 100-400GM suits me-
My review of the FE100-400GM + 2.0TC in one image by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr

For comparison here is a9+400DOii+2.0TC
Swan landing by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr

I've yet to really play with the 100-400GM with 1.4TC but will in February on the annual Florida bird hunt.



Dec 20, 2017 at 05:07 AM
RFisher
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Wildlife photography using Sony E-mount system - Part II


Medicine Man your eagle capture is nothing less than outstanding . Congratulations.

I must ask though how often you can replicate the quality of this image? Over the years I have used 2.0 TC's many times but have never achieved the quality that I seek.

Thanks much for posting your images - always a joy to see.



Dec 20, 2017 at 06:41 AM
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