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Archive 2017 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user

  
 
Derek Weston
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Seriously thinking of going A7R III instead of D850. The lighter weight, 5-axis stabilization (big help for video) and reporter better performance in low light has me thinking.

Few questions:

1) I have Nikon lenses. In your experience, does using an adapter + Nikon lens result in any noticeable loss of quality in image? (as compared to Nikon setup)

2) How well does the 5 axis stabilization work? This is a big selling point for me. How well might it compare to an average Nikon VR solution?


Thanks.



Dec 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM
zhangyue
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Adapting lens will be only temporary solution especially for AF lens. As far as I know and from what I saw, most canikon WA lens won’t perform as good as native system. Mainly corner sharpness and FC.

1. The wider the lens, the more picky about flange distance tolerance.
2. Wide lenses are also more sensitive to Sensor stack thickness.

I personally feel adapting Nikon native AF lens shoot Sony is no go in long run but good for transition. It lost half of advantage Sony system offer.

As for in body stabilization, again, it depend. For daily based use, I turn it off as I don’t really need it (it could give me unpredictable result occasionally), but I am sure it is handy at low light or you try to freeze water handhold. It is especially useful for long glass and video use I’d say which personally I don’t use much.

Hope this help.

Derek Weston wrote:
Seriously thinking of going A7R III instead of D850. The lighter weight, 5-axis stabilization (big help for video) and reporter better performance in low light has me thinking.

Few questions:

1) I have Nikon lenses. In your experience, does using an adapter + Nikon lens result in any noticeable loss of quality in image? (as compared to Nikon setup)

2) How well does the 5 axis stabilization work? This is a big selling point for me. How well might it compare to an average Nikon VR solution?

Thanks.




Dec 13, 2017 at 11:51 AM
Wanny
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Derek Weston wrote:
Seriously thinking of going A7R III instead of D850. The lighter weight, 5-axis stabilization (big help for video) and reporter better performance in low light has me thinking.

Few questions:

1) I have Nikon lenses. In your experience, does using an adapter + Nikon lens result in any noticeable loss of quality in image? (as compared to Nikon setup)

2) How well does the 5 axis stabilization work? This is a big selling point for me. How well might it compare to an average Nikon VR solution?

Thanks.


1) The new adapter is pretty good for still subjects, but if you do any work with moving subjects I would just use native glass. The nikon adapters aren't as good as the metabones or mc-11 yet.

2) I leave it on all the time except on a tripod. It helps a lot with slower shutter speeds and has saved me a lot.



Dec 13, 2017 at 12:08 PM
brafman
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Re: the adapters, image quality doesn't deteriorate. However, autofocus is nonexistent for the inexpensive adapters, and from not great to not working on the expensive adapters. Also, if your lens doesn't have a manual aperture ring, the cheap adapters won't let you set the aperture (or, for the G lens adapters, will only let you specify "more open" and "more closed" as opposed to setting a specific aperture). I use an adapter with a Zeiss zf.2 lens and it works great because I don't need autofocus and the lens has an aperture ring.


Dec 13, 2017 at 01:07 PM
zhangyue
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


brafman wrote:
Re: the adapters, image quality doesn't deteriorate. However, autofocus is nonexistent for the inexpensive adapters, and from not great to not working on the expensive adapters. Also, if your lens doesn't have a manual aperture ring, the cheap adapters won't let you set the aperture (or, for the G lens adapters, will only let you specify "more open" and "more closed" as opposed to setting a specific aperture). I use an adapter with a Zeiss zf.2 lens and it works great because I don't need autofocus and the lens has an aperture ring.


So far, all the test of Canikon WA zoom I have seen perform worse on Sony than Native. I guess the most WA zoom funky enough cross range even for native system, any variables just make them even worse, but I have seen many report with the exact same lens test on 5Dsr (or D810) and A7RII, and always perform 'significant' worse on Sony, this eliminated copy variation possibility.



Dec 13, 2017 at 01:17 PM
bjornthun
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Regarding IBIS, I always leave in On, and in combination with first electronic curtain (EFCS), I can hand hold comfortably at longer shutter speeds than I could with a Nikon DSLR. There is no bounce until the second (mechanical) curtain ends the exposure. Thus, fast Nikon (and other) primes without VR will become much more useful in poor light in places where a tripod is not allowed or for some reason impractical.

If you have manual focus Nikkors, the 10x magnifier in the EVF allows precision focusing that is not possible with an OVF. For this Ai type MF Nikkors or Zeiss ZF/ZF.2 lenses will work very well. IBIS can be used with MF Nikkors by dialling in the focal length of the lens on the camera.



Dec 13, 2017 at 01:21 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


zhangyue wrote:
So far, all the test of Canikon WA zoom I have seen perform worse on Sony than Native. I guess the most WA zoom funky enough cross range even for native system, any variables just make them even worse, but I have seen many report with the exact same lens test on 5Dsr (or D810) and A7RII, and always perform 'significant' worse on Sony, this eliminated copy variation possibility.


In general DSLR lenses, even wide angle lenses do fine on Sony FF cameras. The most reported issues are related to rangefinder wide angle lenses. Again, generally speaking, of course. I have used Canon 11-24mm and Nikon 14-24mm lenses witout any noticeable ill effect.



Dec 13, 2017 at 01:54 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Derek Weston wrote:
Seriously thinking of going A7R III instead of D850. The lighter weight, 5-axis stabilization (big help for video) and reporter better performance in low light has me thinking.

Few questions:

1) I have Nikon lenses. In your experience, does using an adapter + Nikon lens result in any noticeable loss of quality in image? (as compared to Nikon setup)

2) How well does the 5 axis stabilization work? This is a big selling point for me. How well might it compare to an average Nikon VR solution?

Thanks.


Great questions Derek. There are 3 types of adapters, namely:

• dumb ones, cheap Chinese ones and expensive from Novoflex.
• AF adapter for AF-S Nikkor lenses, Commlite ENF-E1 Pro firmware version 6 is latest.
• AF adapter for non-AF-S lenses.TechArt Pro LM-EA7 (TAP) adapts from Leica M to Sony E, so need also adapter from F to M.

The AF adapters seem to work (with issues) with central focus points better than with non-central ones.
Some image examples.
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-12-07-A95528-Micro-NIKKORTAP-LM-EA7-White-Rock-Rio/i-pnZSxb2/1/713a3d3b/X2/7_DSC03946-X2.jpg
Sony A9 with TAP and Micro-Nikkor 55/2.8
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-11-01-A7r224-7028-AF-S-Nikkor-Otowi-Bridge/i-KrmWQVx/1/fc635874/X3/_DSC1741%20Historical%20Otowi%20Bridge_7909x4449-X3.jpg
Sony A7r.2 with Commlite ENF-E1 Pro and AF-S 24-70mm F2.8-2.8 G
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-10-19-A980-40045-56-AF-S-Nikkor-Backyard-Tests/i-qQR7Ddq/1/8dadd49a/X2/_DSC9004%20Bluebird_6000x4000-X2.jpg
Sony A9 with Commlite ENF-E1 Pro and AF-S 80-400mm F4.4-5.6 G
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2016-09-09-A7r22814-D-AF/i-hnfLtS2/1/aae2d1ef/X2/_1_DSC6833_The%20Band_4890x3262_1988x1326-X2.jpg
Sony A7r.2 with TAP and 28/1.4 D AF NIKKOR

K-H.







Dec 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM
zhangyue
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


AGeoJO wrote:
In general DSLR lenses, even wide angle lenses do fine on Sony FF cameras. The most reported issues are related to rangefinder wide angle lenses. Again, generally speaking, of course. I have used Canon 11-24mm and Nikon 14-24mm lenses witout any noticeable ill effect.


i will try to find test results for you. I am sure they are not performed as good due to adapter or sensor stack difference. Even Sigma MC-11 and Metabone show different performance assume they both in spec on a few canon 16-35 on Sony test I saw, I feel very puzzled as well.



Dec 13, 2017 at 02:55 PM
Derek Weston
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Thanks for all the responses. You've given some direction to my research.

With the stabilization, I'm most interested in video performance since I do handheld video at times. Have any of you had experience with this feature as it relates to video?

In regards to some of the observations...

1) Compromised image quality would be a big problem for me if it were the case with adapters -- so I need to figure that out.

2) Basic center point focus would be good enough -- I tend to shoot landscapes and very few moving targets. I only have basic needs for auto-focus.



Dec 13, 2017 at 03:06 PM
zhangyue
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


zhangyue wrote:
i will try to find test results for you. I am sure they are not performed as good due to adapter or sensor stack difference. Even Sigma MC-11 and Metabone show different performance assume they both in spec on a few canon 16-35 on Sony test I saw, I feel very puzzled as well.


Found one. I swear I have seen more reports like this, even a few here in FM about WA designed for Canikon perform worse on Sony.

Here is sigma 14mm f1.8 test on

5dsr
https://images.irentals.cn/lensforarticle/Sigma%2014%201.8/14a.jpg
A7RII with MB5
https://images.irentals.cn/lensforarticle/Sigma%2014%201.8/15a.jpg
A7RII with MC-11
https://images.irentals.cn/lensforarticle/Sigma%2014%201.8/16a.jpg

I notice this effect when I adapting 14-24 on A7. FC and focus shift behavior changed but I am not sure my adaptor was in spec.



Dec 14, 2017 at 12:17 AM
indusphoto
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Derek Weston wrote:
Seriously thinking of going A7R III instead of D850. The lighter weight, 5-axis stabilization (big help for video) and reporter better performance in low light has me thinking.

Few questions:

1) I have Nikon lenses. In your experience, does using an adapter + Nikon lens result in any noticeable loss of quality in image? (as compared to Nikon setup)

2) How well does the 5 axis stabilization work? This is a big selling point for me. How well might it compare to an average Nikon VR solution?

Thanks.


I am in the same boat as you, and currently have both. Testing stabilization at 70mm, I will rate Optical stabilization about a stop to stop and a half better then Steadyshot. However Steadyshot is still very good, and at 70mm I would not hesitate to use 1/20. If I shoot a burst, even 1/10 can give me quite a few keepers (especially with electronic shutter).At 300mm it is the same story. Three stops are not a problem with Sony and 4-5 are doable (in burst or with good technique). On Nikon I can do 4 easily, and more if I am careful.

Noisewise, I know that DPR and DXO shows advantage to A7RIII. I see the same in Lightroom (converting A7RIII to A7RII), but it is very slight and is basicall same for practical purpose. Maybe when LR is updated for A7R3 files natively, it will do better. Sony ImageEdit actually does worse then LR.

I have a Commlite adapter on the way. When it gets here, I will be able to test with the same lens on both for apples to apples.



Dec 14, 2017 at 03:23 AM
ytwong
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


I'm surprised the 14/1.8 performed better with MB than MC-11, because I think my 17/4 performs better with MC-11. I have never owned a Canon body so I don't know if the 17 performs better on Canon or not but I have seen lots of people claiming it works better on a Canon DLSR. The corners of 17/4 when shifted is quite bad on my MB and I have to stop down to very small aperture, that seems improved a bit when I use the 17mm on my MC-11.

I have only used longer Nikon lens on A7R2, mainly ZF 100/2 MP and AI-S 180/2.8 ED. The ZF performs very well on A7R2, while the 180 struggles in high res sensor (but its rendering is good). I use tried 60/2.8 D micro and sometimes sensor reflection is a problem. I didn't really used other Nikon lens since I still have proper Nikon body.

IBIS works quite well. I feel that it might not be as good as the best from Nikon (the effectiveness is likely FL dependent) but then every single lens is stabilized, but I haven't really made a direct comparison (also need to consider that my Sony has high res so it's also easier to spot motion blur than a lower res body). I often push over 3 stops with Nikon but I prefer to stay within 2-3 stops with Sony. Panning also seems to work although I don't remember Sony mentioned that but Nikon talks quite a bit about VR and panning.



Dec 14, 2017 at 04:19 AM
joema2
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Questions about A7R III from Nikon user


Derek Weston wrote:
...With the stabilization, I'm most interested in video performance since I do handheld video at times. Have any of you had experience with this feature as it relates to video?....Basic center point focus would be good enough -- I tend to shoot landscapes and very few moving targets....


My documentary group uses the Vello LAE-SE-NFV4 adapter for Nikon lenses. It works OK but I always manually focus for both stills and video. I don't use it much but when using the Nikon 70-200 2.8 VRII, I've had some odd issues with the lens OIS, almost like it wasn't working right. However I've had intermittent issues with certain Sony lenses on Sony cameras as well.

Most of my experience is with adapting Canon L lenses to the A7R2 and R3 via Metabones IV, but this is a complex area. The lens OIS handles pitch and yaw (if used by itself) and IBIS can handle pitch, yaw, roll, and translation. Typically on a Canon lens you use either lens OIS or IBIS but not both. However the MBIV adapter has a mode where it will use both.

Sony OIS lenses handshake with the camera and they typically split up the stabilization with lens handling pitch/yaw and IBIS handling everything else.

In general late-generation lens-based OIS is very good. In some cases my Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II is more stable for hand-held video than the Sony 28-135 f/4 cinema lens on an A7R2 body. There are cases where the A7RII and 28-135 stabilization just don't work right in Super35 mode. However the A7R3 seems to have improved this lens/camera interaction and is considerably better.

Re AF, this breaks down into two categories: stills and video. For video don't expect anything from an adapted lens and you won't be disappointed The MBIV adapter on a Canon lens will sort of attempt video AF in some modes, but I'd never use that. For stills it's a lot better but even then it's nowhere near as reliable as a Sony lens.

The A7RIII focus peaking is improved considerably over the RII so it's easier to manually focus. For video I only use manual focus, and even on Sony lenses with the A7RIII or A6500, my documentary partners generally use manual focus. However video AF is a viable option for the Sony lens/camera combination in certain conditions.




Dec 14, 2017 at 06:54 AM





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