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Archive 2017 · What kind of Photographer am I?

  
 
mrcserlndssn
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Hi guys!
Long time lurker here (almost 10 years I think?), but since I am about to start my own business I thought it also was time to register here.

My plan is to photograph around maximum 10 weddings per year, since its my extra income on weekends, and I only shoot cuz it's fun, not that I really need the money.
However, most photographers here in Sweden call themselves either "Documentary Wedding Photographer", "Lifestyle Wedding Photographer" etc, and my question is.. What am I? And what do you consider yourself to be, and why?

If you like to see some of my work:
www.instagram.com/mrcserlndssn
and a quick "portfolio" on youtube:
https://youtu.be/VXgLLG5L8Gc
*note Its a very quick edit I did just to show some of my pictures for a client, but it kinda shows of my style...

Kind Regards!
Marcus
Sweden.



Dec 11, 2017 at 03:34 PM
IrishDino
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Who cares? I'm convinced these terms like "lifestyle wedding photographer" were made up by someone trying to sell their workshop.

The blank stares during meetings when I'd say I was a "documentary wedding photographer" happened frequently enough that I dropped the term from my website this year. Clients don't have a clue what any of this means.

Edited on Dec 12, 2017 at 08:03 AM · View previous versions



Dec 11, 2017 at 03:55 PM
amonline
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What kind of Photographer am I?


What are you? First impression...

"A candid photographer, presenting an inconsistent style of processing that attempts to copy others, while needing to work on his composition and not worry about market definitions."

I agree with Zach. Who cares? Pick your style, present it, and enjoy those who desire your talent.

What kind of photographer am I? I'm me. My clients love me. Those are the only clients I care about what they think.



Dec 11, 2017 at 04:04 PM
Ziffl3
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What kind of Photographer am I?


^^^^^^^^ this.....

Boom baby!



Dec 11, 2017 at 06:01 PM
Unclejoe1116
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What kind of Photographer am I?


What he said.

I've gotten so many blank looks, especially from younger couples, anytime I ask them what their preferred style is. Show them photos you can consistently get at every wedding. If they like it, you're their guy.



Dec 12, 2017 at 07:57 AM
mrcserlndssn
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Thanks guys!
I will absolutely stop trying to fit in a special category, and not even pretend to be in any of them.

Regarding a inconsistent post-processing, absolutely!
I've changed gear to often, going from Canon, to Fuji, to analog 35mm to Sony, and at Sony, I absolutely lost it. The colors could never be as I wanted them to be, the blue light here in Sweden combined with (according to me) bluish color science Sony has, left me in a real rut! So I tried C1P, liked it, but in the end, the A7 was to cumbersome to work with in a quick pace. Sold it, and Bought a Nikon, Mastin labs presets and I really feel at home. So from now on, my work will be more consistent. Have 2 different presets, one color and one B&W.

Will definitely work on my composition, Thanks for the heads up. That is one thing I really try to be better at. I love candid moments, thats what I try to sell in when they ask me about my style...

As I said, appreciate the feedback, I find all you guys here really talented, and learned a lot from the Wedding Forum here.

Kind Regards
Marcus



Dec 12, 2017 at 10:34 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What kind of Photographer am I?


mrcserlndssn wrote:
I've changed gear to often, going from Canon, to Fuji, to analog 35mm to Sony, and at Sony, I absolutely lost it. The colors could never be as I wanted them to be, the blue light here in Sweden combined with (according to me) bluish color science Sony has, left me in a real rut! So I tried C1P, liked it, but in the end, the A7 was to cumbersome to work


Step away from the internet. None of your clients will care about any of these differences as along as the shots are well composed, timed and lit.



Dec 12, 2017 at 11:45 AM
glort
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What kind of Photographer am I?




What sort of photographer are you?

I don't know but I'll tell you what sort of shooter I hope you are not.

One of these people that think because they don't need the money and are doing if for fun whom use lowball pricing instead of talent or proper business practices to undercut other shooters and undermine the industry.

IF people are going to play wedding shooter for fun and their own pleasure it's not a problem IF they compete fairly and not Screw the other people in the industry over by stupid and predatory pricing models that undermine the value of the industry.

Everyone conducting a business needs to be registered as required in their area/ country, have insurance, backup equipment and pay all taxes.
Of course many don't which is the reason they can undercut the real professionals and end up screwing the industry when things go wrong and clients are left in the lurch.

I'm sure you will charge a fair market price to all and be fully insured with backup equipment and this won't apply to you but it is worth mentioning to other newcomers looking for fun and games playing photographer.



Dec 13, 2017 at 03:43 AM
mrcserlndssn
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What kind of Photographer am I?


glort wrote:
What sort of photographer are you?

I don't know but I'll tell you what sort of shooter I hope you are not.

One of these people that think because they don't need the money and are doing if for fun whom use lowball pricing instead of talent or proper business practices to undercut other shooters and undermine the industry.



I am absolutely not doing it for free, or cheap even. I really think I AM competing fairly.

But really trying to find a good Pricing. In Sweden we are allowed to have a "Hobby" and earn a certain amount of money by it every year without paying extra taxes. My pricing is like most others around my area minus taxes (even a quite a bit higher sometimes) as long as you look in the same segment. I am not a High sought after photographer, so I am not charging nearly as much as the "high-end", but really what I think I am worth, and more..
And If I seem to be able to "stealing" jobs from a higher priced photographer to you, I only take that as a compliment.

That said, when I start my own business, I will raise my charging accordingly, like today, plus an annual raise in price, plus tax, and all the extra that comes running a business.

I know what you mean, and I really aint one of those without insurance, backup equipment etc. I have it all covered.
The thing about not needing the money and doing it for fun, doesn't mean I do it for free, so that Might've come out wrong...





Dec 13, 2017 at 01:54 PM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Marcus,

Take my words with lots of salt as a fellow part-timer entering my 5th year in the business.

My initial reaction after reading your first post is that you will ultimately fail just like 9 out of 10 newbie wedding photographers out there within two years. A portfolio takes time to build so I don't expect you to have one when starting out. I say you will fail because you are approaching this with the wrong mindset. All the stuff you brought up so far is irrelevant to your client and to your success.

No one cares about how you label yourself, the brand of your camera, what presets you use or whether you are doing this "cuz it's fun" (whatever that means).

Having this said, I challenge you to prove me wrong by setting an alarm in your calendar two years from now, revive this thread and tell me that your business is thriving. Otherwise you are just another casualty in the ever revolving door of wedding photography.

Glort is right on many things, but in this instance his reply was rubbish.

People were tired of arguing with Glort in the Pro Digital Corner's thread, so he's projecting his hatred towards newbie photographers here.

No person or organization will dictate what the fair market rate is. Supply and demand will. His argument is that by undercutting someone's else pricing, you are devaluing this person's work. I have explained this many times in the past, although I don't think Glort will ever understand: unless you are the #1 most expensive photographer in the world, you are essentially devaluing someone else's work.

The $500 guy is devaluing the $1000 guy, who in turns devalues the $5000 guy, who in turns devalues the $10000 guy, and so on...

Anyone who understands the psychology of pricing will know that the client who can afford the $10000 photographer will not associate him/herself with the $500 photographer. The higher price reinforces the perceived value of the product or service. They are competing in two different worlds, trying to group everyone together is silly.

Not all jurisdictions require registration to start a business, I know mine doesn't and I will leave things at that. Legal and taxes are beyond the scope of this thread.

As for whether you wish to cut corners on backup equipment and insurance, things tend to go well until shit hits the fan. Your reputation is pretty much ruined with one critical equipment failure or one litigation. It tends to bite you back 10x harder than what you can possibly save in the long run. What surprises me is Glort's stance when it comes to shooting dual memory card slots (I see eyes rolling, yup we have another epic thread on this).

Memory cards fall into the "equipment" category in my books. Therefore anyone who preaches on having proper backup should shoot dual memory card slots. But let's not derail this thread...

What worked for me (remember this comes with lots of salt) is a relentless commitment to customer service. If you take the time to listen, brides will tell you what they want. Deliver that and they will come back (as in referrals). Very quickly people will want to book Marcus and not any other photographer. Your time is your greatest asset, leverage that scarcity to raise your asking price.

In other words, whatever other photographers do is none of your concern. The more you focus on your clients' needs and not your own, the faster you will grow.



Dec 13, 2017 at 04:54 PM
glort
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What kind of Photographer am I?


TheyCallMeJ wrote:
People were tired of arguing with Glort in the Pro Digital Corner's thread, so he's projecting his hatred towards newbie photographers here.


What a load of ignorant shit.

If you still don't get what I have been saying, then don't twist your ignorance into completely flawed accusations about my position on things you are too biased or self centered in your own beliefs to understand.

Just for the close minded like you, I'll say it one more time.

I have no problem with anyone else or how many people there are in the game as long as they compete on a fair pricing level and not use price to undercut others to get work which undermines the whole industry and screw's it for everyone. Full timer, part time and anyone else there may be.

IF you can't see that these Craiglister types that shoot a wedding for $300 ( or whatever other non viable amount for the work involved) ) aren't undercharging and causing damage to the industry, then don't say I have a hatred for new shooters because you are too damn ignorant to understand the problem I am talking about. I have explained it over and over. If you still don't get it you are either flat out stupid or just trying push your own agendas with FUD and BS,

There is a cheap shooter and there is one that is subsidizing what they do because it's costing them more than they are charging. YES, those people I hate but that is moronic to assume they are all new shooters and you imply insult to them to assume they will all undercharge. There are people right here on this forum that have been doing it for years and still charge $2 for heavily edited 6x4 prints and if you can't see the problem with that Then that's on you not me. To say my hatred is for new shooters rather than people that stuff the industry with under charging only shows your true ignorance to my position.

Go back through the threads here and have a look at the posts I have written and help I have tried to give new shooters. You can go back years and see it so the proof of your ignorance and flaw in your statements is well and truly documents.

And one more time....
I'm not against new shooters at all, I'm against people using price as a way of taking work from ALL shooters who do decent work and NEED to charge a fair price for that to sustain their BUSINESS and not undermine the industry by creating flawed pricing expectations in the industry in whatever market that is.

Don't go making accusations about me unless you get your own biased and flawed facts straight first.



Dec 13, 2017 at 05:45 PM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Glort, do you go out and give a business lecture to the poor kid mowing the neighbor's lawn for $5 cash? What about the one across the street selling 25 cents lemonade?

You keep talking about charging a fair market rate. Ok, so what is the fair market rate for wedding photography according to you and what gives you the authority to dictate this rate? Because Glort says so?

Many businesses thrive by undercutting each other. Walmart, Costco, Amazon, countless examples out there. Dollar stores in turn further cut into these giants, the more they cut, the more profitable they are (think about that for a second). You would be pretty naive to believe that photographers shouldn't undercut others, why? Because Glort says so?

There will always be a market for sub $500 brides, the Craigslist crowd exists to serve this market. By telling everyone to charge your fair market rate (whatever that is), you are basically saying that these brides don't deserve a photographer. We know you are affluent but please get off your high horse, the world doesn't revolve around you.

You can scream your heart out but nothing we say here will stop the influx of the $500 Craigslist photographer. Focusing on the things you can't control is a waste of time. Furthermore, you are asking Marcus, someone who doesn't even have a portfolio, to charge a fair rate. How on Earth is he supposed to do that? Talk about advice that goes nowhere.

I don't even care what's happening in the $500 market but if you wish to hear the truth, the more Craigslist photographers in my area the stronger I become. All brides know a friend of a friend who had a terrible experience nowadays, it gives me plenty of opportunity to educate them on why I charge more. The risk becomes an emotional pain point for me to address. They are so afraid that they will naturally gravitate towards quality, I don't even have to "sell" anymore.



glort wrote:
What a load of ignorant shit.

If you still don't get what I have been saying, then don't twist your ignorance into completely flawed accusations about my position on things you are too biased or self centered in your own beliefs to understand.

Just for the close minded like you, I'll say it one more time.

I have no problem with anyone else or how many people there are in the game as long as they compete on a fair pricing level and not use price to undercut others to get work which undermines the whole industry and screw's it
...Show more




Dec 13, 2017 at 07:03 PM
amonline
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What kind of Photographer am I?


At 03:43 AM, I decided to sit back and watch the shit show.

Was not disappointed.




Dec 13, 2017 at 08:06 PM
glort
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What kind of Photographer am I?


Go on with whatever you want.
Show me where once I have dictated any rate? Your whole attack is flawed and baseless.

Refute what I say, not what you make up in your head.

Just don't spread false accusations that I have some hatred of new people coming into the industry or other false slander.



Dec 13, 2017 at 10:17 PM
glort
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What kind of Photographer am I?


TheyCallMeJ wrote:
Because Glort says so?



Have a rant at someone else.
Maybe they can make you understand the point. I sure as hell either can't get it across or you are just looking to take the piss.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1520716/1#14287320





Dec 13, 2017 at 10:29 PM
mrcserlndssn
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What kind of Photographer am I?


I've photographed Wedding since 2009. Totalling 20-ish Weddings, but only as a "Hobby"...
My rate has gone up since then, and 2018 I have 5 Weddings planned so far, along with about in general 5-10 kid-sessions.
My usual Fee is (a quick translation to $) $125 per hour. I don't think that is too cheap, not at all, and I certainly hope I'm not dragging down prices on Weddings in general with that amount. Like "heyCallMeJ" says, I'm not a Photographer the ~$200/h customer is looking at etc.

I think I got it all covered, regarding double card slots, 2x at home backup, offsite backup etc, insurance and backup equipment ( 3 cameras, several lenses..). And I have yet to receive any complaint about my work, as the customers I had always have looked at my work before they decided if they wanted to hire me.

My main question was as I said, what type of photographer I was, when I thought about calling me anything. Though I quickly found out here, that it's not a good Idea, so I scrapped it. But I do really appreciate all the tips, and advices from you guys. So Thanks! Big Thanks!



Dec 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM
level1photog
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What kind of Photographer am I?


I don't put a label on my works. We have to wear different hats depending on certain section of the day. To do wedding photography well, we have to be a product photographer, portrait photographer, event photographer, documentary, children and so on.

Your instagram feeds have inconsistent processing with personal and business images mix in. If you want to pick up more business, have a IG with images directed for wedding photography. Only display your best to give clients the best impression of your works.



Dec 14, 2017 at 03:37 PM
glort
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What kind of Photographer am I?


mrcserlndssn wrote:
My usual Fee is (a quick translation to $) $125 per hour. I don't think that is too cheap, not at all, and I certainly hope I'm not dragging down prices on Weddings in general with that amount. Like "heyCallMeJ" says, I'm not a Photographer the ~$200/h customer is looking at etc.



As much as some can't comprehend it, there is a big difference between someone charging $30 an hour and someone charging $125. While that seems cheap to me, it's is not so cheap so as to devalue the industry as I was talking about.
I would imagine most people are going to look at a 4-6 hour coverage.


I have not known a pricing system for weddings based only on hourly rate but it seems reasonable to me although for your own benefit, how much time you spend processing? That needs to be calculated into your time as well.

Good luck with your endeavors!






Dec 15, 2017 at 02:48 AM
Smousefam5
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What kind of Photographer am I?


For those who are seriously economically challenged (like MANY in my community are) a budget rate hobbyist is their only option other than a bunch of cell phone pics from family and friends. In my opinion a decent hobbyist is much better than that.


Dec 19, 2017 at 09:05 PM
form
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What kind of Photographer am I?


The responses now beg me to ask the question of those same persons who responded to the OP.

My images are at http://www.joeyallenphoto.com

What kind of photographer am I?



Dec 21, 2017 at 06:30 PM
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