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Which path forward? for Me?
Limp on - Switch when 5dsr v2 arrives
Move to Adobe bridge / Photoshop / Manual file System
Swith to Light Room - you will like it after a few months
Other - Solution

Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?
  
 
chez
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Silverfire wrote:
Once you've seen what Adobe does to its programs, the companies it acquires, and its users, you've seen enough to justify a decision to not use their products. (Reference: Macromedia, Fireworks, InDesign, Acrobat, rent-your-software, LR stand-alone.) The evidence is all there.

I'm using Aperture until On1 RAW rises to the level of DXO with its import/presets.

Watch out for the scorpions offering you low-cost rides across the river. Their DNA isn't changing; no matter how useful something is to you, the sting always comes.


You ever see the companies and products Apple aquired and where they end up. You really feel good using an Apple product and not an Adobe product because Apple's business practices are so much different than Adobe's. Open your eyes.



Dec 13, 2017 at 09:38 PM
charlyw
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Silverfire wrote:
Once you've seen what Adobe does to its programs, the companies it acquires, and its users, you've seen enough to justify a decision to not use their products.


With that stance how can you justify using software by any big successful company? - Only companies that are always on the brink of closure or buyout or discontinuing their product and which are mostly unsusscessful in their business practices would not fall under the exclusion you formulated.



Dec 14, 2017 at 06:03 AM
justruss
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Which was my entire point, and the point of the person to whom I was replying. Glad to hear that you agree. ;-)

- - -


Ah, the fact that you are already a heavy Photoshop user changes things. I missed that!

I think that the part you currently do in Aperture at the end ("cropping, darker, shadows") can actually be done easily and effectively in Photoshop, which you are already use! Here it is probably just a matter of learning how to do the things you are currently comfortable with in a different environment.

As to the file organization and selection and
...Show more

Wow, Dan, sorry if my response bothered you or you deem it not worthy of being included in this discussion. I wasn't refuting or arguing against a closed chat between you and the person you responded to (I wasn't refuting or arguing against anything)-- I was adding to the discussion by bringing up other, non-price-related concerns that are surely relevant to this thread, and the discussion, and builds on what you were writing about.

That felt a bit rude.

I'm just another schmoe, working around the globe to feed myself with my photography, who has some history with Apple/Aperture/Lightroom in a professional capacity-- but perhaps that's not enough for you and your clique. (How about this novel idea: pro, amateur, expert, beginner... all of us using these tools can be part of the conversation, bring up or articulate or magnify points in the conversation, and try to do it in a civil, non-disparaging way?)

--

To the OP and those participating in this thread in general, I'd still suggest that money is not the only, or necessarily even the main, consideration when it comes to what the subscription model for LR/PS means to your near, mid, and long-term photography plans/processing.

I don't personally thing there are universal right and wrong choices, but there are lots of options, concerns, and considerations when making such a major migration or taking on such a large learning curve. I've been there not so long ago. I imagine I'll be there again in the not so distant future.






Dec 14, 2017 at 10:31 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


justruss wrote:
Wow, Dan, sorry if my response bothered you or you deem it not worthy of being included in this discussion...


Huh? I thanked you for agreeing with me. You are "worthy," and I'm not "bothered." ;-)

The rest of my post — the part below the separator line — was a reply to Scott and his post that I quoted — and unrelated to your post. Hope that was clear.

Take care,

Dan



Dec 14, 2017 at 03:22 PM
justruss
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Huh? I thanked you for agreeing with me. You are "worthy," and I'm not "bothered." ;-)

The rest of my post — the part below the separator line — was a reply to Scott and his post that I quoted — and unrelated to your post. Hope that was clear.

Take care,

Dan


Than, apologies at the misreading of emotion online.* And back to normal!

*I got the multiquote separaters. But I thought you were dismissing my entire post as not-warranted since it covered additional ground from yours.

Cheers!



Dec 14, 2017 at 04:40 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


:-)



Dec 14, 2017 at 06:41 PM
Konablue
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Silverfire wrote:
Once you've seen what Adobe does to its programs, the companies it acquires, and its users, you've seen enough to justify a decision to not use their products. (Reference: Macromedia, Fireworks, InDesign, Acrobat, rent-your-software, LR stand-alone.) The evidence is all there.

I'm using Aperture until On1 RAW rises to the level of DXO with its import/presets.

Watch out for the scorpions offering you low-cost rides across the river. Their DNA isn't changing; no matter how useful something is to you, the sting always comes.



Why is this such a bad thing and how does it make a company evil? Large software companies will often buy out a small company for the right to own and develop their newly acquired unique software app. They will then integrate the new and unique software with their core software in order to add a new capability/product to their software lineup. And the smart companies will also hire the specially skilled software developers from the smaller company to ensure they can maintain, integrate and further develop the new software.

This type of acquisition is a mutual business agreement between both parties and is not a hostile takeover. There is also the benefit of absorbing potential competition as well as becoming more competitive. Acquiring smaller companies is typical of how software industry works. I know this because I used to work for a large software company and was involved in many business partnerships. Competition between companies is good for the consumer and results in improved products and lower prices for the end-user.




Dec 16, 2017 at 03:33 PM
Gochugogi
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


I don't know if anybody mentioned it—thread is too long to read everything—but the OP might want to peek at Picktorial. The price is right and it opens Aperture libraries with adjustments intact. I like the fact Picktorial allows your choice of image file organization, so no proprietary file structure. Not as many adjustment tools as Aperture but vastly superior to Photos and integrates well with image editors.


Dec 19, 2017 at 07:16 PM
Emile Gregoire
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Gochugogi wrote:
I don't know if anybody mentioned it—thread is too long to read everything—but the OP might want to peek at Picktorial. The price is right and it opens Aperture libraries with adjustments intact. I like the fact Picktorial allows your choice of image file organization, so no proprietary file structure. Not as many adjustment tools as Aperture but vastly superior to Photos and integrates well with image editors.


How come I never heard of this before? It looks pretty good. Do you use it?



Dec 19, 2017 at 09:46 PM
Gochugogi
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


I've just started using Picktorial at the version 3 variant and it is sleek and well designed. It's simple and young so not a LR killer but for those preferring a DIYS file organization it's great. I was able to open my wife's huge and old iPhoto Library with folders and adjustments intact. Mixing finder level folders and walled Apple libraries works well. The only negative so far is it doesn't seem to work with Aperture/iPhoto libraries that reference files rather than store them in Apple's walled container. I sent Picktorial a message about referenced libraries not working and they said they're working on it and will get back to me. It opens my RAW 6D, M3 and 80D files just fine and has a supported RAW list of about 500 cameras thus far.


Dec 19, 2017 at 10:05 PM
 

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OntheRez
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Aperture is/was - once again - a brilliant bit of software from Apple. It put front end processing and DAM into an excellent package. It was elegant, quick, worked well, and images were referrenced/cataloged with a true relational database. Was waaay overpriced at introduction, but Apple quickly pulled its head out and made it reasonable. It's always denied, but it's hard to accept that Adobe wasn't significantly challenged by Aperture. Adobe scooped up a 3rd party program (can't remember its name), buffed it a bit, rebranded, and sold us Lightroom. Lr has never been as seemless, coherent and - from a DAM perspective - as powerful.

Of course Apple did what it has done from the beginning - create a new genre of tool, act like they'll be in it forever, then dump it in mid-stroke. I think Final Cut is about all they have left.

So suck it up and move to Lr. I saw the abandonment coming and switched over to Lr at about v.3?? Translating the database and moving the files was a significant task. I'm glad I did it then and not now.

Lr is in the category of: "It's okay, but I'm not going to get worked up over it." I really don't see Adobe doing much with it other than updating camera profiles. The "All New, All singing, All Dancing LrCC (as opposed to Lr Classic - that one fooled me the first time thru) is a joke.

<snark on> I can just hear Moma Adobe saying, "Give me your huddled photos yearning to be - certainly not free - safe in a cloud so you don't ever have to worry about backing them up, organizing them, or any of those other trivial tasks. </snark>

I guess a never here, but always available via your cell, software is the inevitable result of the impending death of desk top computing at the hands of the cell/brick/gadget that fits in the hand.

Master the best tool you can find. Keep looking/working for a better one.



Dec 19, 2017 at 10:48 PM
Gochugogi
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Actually Apple still has a few pro apps besides Final Cut Pro. I've been using Logic Pro X for years and it is updated regularly and is state of the art for multiple track recording. They also have Motion (for video effects) and MainStage for DJs/bands. A lot of musicians love and depend on Logic so we were afraid when Aperture hit the rocks but Apple didn't pull back on it one iota so all's well for now.


Dec 19, 2017 at 11:40 PM
Emile Gregoire
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?




Gochugogi wrote:
I've just started using Picktorial at the version 3 variant and it is sleek and well designed. It's simple and young so not a LR killer but for those preferring a DIYS file organization it's great. I was able to open my wife's huge and old iPhoto Library with folders and adjustments intact. Mixing finder level folders and walled Apple libraries works well. The only negative so far is it doesn't seem to work with Aperture/iPhoto libraries that reference files rather than store them in Apple's walled container. I sent Picktorial a message about referenced libraries not working and they
...Show more

OK, I'll give it a whirl, just for fun. Especially at the current price, what's not to like. They give Fuji's X-trans sensor a bit of love with a special pack to mimic their in-camera film look, might be great for some quick & dirty conversions. So thanks for bringing this to my attention!



Dec 19, 2017 at 11:57 PM
Aaron D
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Word of warning about LR Classic CC. There is a very large thread at the Adobe forums complaining about the woeful performance of LR on very high end systems. Many of us have tried all fixes and with not much luck. LR can appear to work well for about 10-20 minutes but it then dramatically slows down and only closing and restarting fixes this. This could mean there's a huge memory leak. Adobe have replicated the issue on certain Mac's but I've heard nothing about PC's. For this reason alone I'd avoid it for now and try DxO Photolab
...Show more

This doesn’t seem to be anything new. I’m still running Lr6, and even with 5 I noticed something very similar. Also thought I had heard Lr is going to be coming to an end soon? Maybe it was an old article referring to the switch to CC? I don’t remember tbh.


I’m against paying a subscription fee for Lr. I love it, but I’m going to subscribe to use software. DxO seems a good alternative. I tried it briefly. While the transition was a bit odd to say, it seemed a viable alternative. As of late, I’ve been considering giving Alien Skin Exposure X3 a try. It also has a “library” organizing feature. Can be used as stand alone or as a plug-in. Yes there’s a Mac version and a free 30 day trial version. I’m going to be looking into it within the coming months.



Dec 23, 2017 at 03:04 AM
Gochugogi
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


I haven't noticed any memory leaks in LR: runs smoothly all day on my humble Mini (17/16GB RAM) and iMac. Of course those ain't high end systems. However the LR interface sure is awkward compared to Aperture and Picktorial. Reminds me of Photoshop...

LR isn't coming to an end. Adobe split it into two apps, confusing some users due to the name similarity: Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC. Lightroom CC is a cloud based app for beginners/iPhone users (with few controls or options and iOS equivalents) and Lightroom Classic CC is the pro version for land bound computers. The $9.95 monthly photog subscription rate includes both LR variants plus the mobile apps and PS.



Dec 23, 2017 at 08:01 AM
moosehead222
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Capture One Pro

I have used LR since it came out, tried Aperture, went back to LR/PS, and recently since LR did not have a raw converter for my new camera (for about 2-3 weeks), I tried Capture One Pro.

For what it does, it does extremely well. I like it better than LR. Conversion is high quality, their profiles are outstanding, and they have layers. I did not mean to go on about the features, just a post that I think you should try Capture One Pro.

Good luck.



Jan 03, 2018 at 02:38 AM
charlyw
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
Lr is in the category of: "It's okay, but I'm not going to get worked up over it." I really don't see Adobe doing much with it other than updating camera profiles.


There has been the addition of a new rendering engine, new masking options, new automatic image enhancements, enhancements to the panorama functionality (yielding a full DNG no less), and a lot of other functions that deliver solid proof that you are wrong in that regard!



Jan 03, 2018 at 06:22 AM
OntheRez
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Charley,

I'm sure I'm still disgruntled, and that Adobe does work on Lr. Do have to say that on high-end current gear, Lr's rendering speeds haven't improved much.

However, I'd like to ask about DNG. Adobe touts it as universal, but I'm not aware of its wide adoption outside of Adobe's products. Perhaps I'm incorrect? More to the point, just how well does a rendered to DNG compare to that which comes from the very best RAW interpreters. As we all know, there's a lot of variation in RAW output. Just how well does DNG come out? Does it capture your range, color, detail, etc., well?

As for universal, I find it hard to imagine that mainline formats like, .Cr2 and .NEF won't be supported for a very long time so what's the call for a "universal" format.

I'm not just being argumentative here. I'd really like to know how well DNG works for you.



Jan 03, 2018 at 03:56 PM
butchM
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
... Just how well does DNG come out? Does it capture your range, color, detail, etc., well?



*** Not defending DNG or Adobe ... simply sharing some info. ***

DNG is NOT a different RAW file, (unless your camera is capable of saving same upon capture) it is simply the same exact camera native RAW sensor data stored in a different wrapper where the IPTC and EXIF metadata are always stored in known, non-altering locations. In many cases over the years, camera maker RAW file data like WB, camera setting, etc. have been a moving target as to where in the file that info is stored.

Currently, camera maker RAW files are a constant moving target as to where and how they choose to store metadata and sometimes how they configure image data in their proprietary RAW files. RAW converter software developers must re-invent the wheel for each new camera introduced.

Lr (and likely when using other RAW converters that are properly utilizing DNG) will treat the enclosed image data as if it were in a native RAW wrapper for that camera. In other words, there should be absolutely no difference in rendering results between the same image that is in a NEF format or a DNG format. It's the same exact data, just stored in a different container. It's like water form the same source stored in two different bottles. Same H2O ... different containers.

As far as adoption ... until the camera makers embrace a universal file format, DNG will likely never see a populous embrace. They fear losing their 'special sauce' to the competition ion they would do so. Though it would make life so much easier for both RAW converter software developers and end users if they would.



Jan 03, 2018 at 06:07 PM
OntheRez
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Aperture on its Last Leg - Replacement?


Butch,

Thanks for the explanation of DNG. I had assumed - incorrectly - that Adobe was reading the RAW and storing it in yet another format. This makes DNG more palatable.

I can see how makers and photographers might be hesitant to Adobe this format. It is said to be "open" though that term can mean several things. Presumably, the specifications are published and can be adhered to. The issue then is who set/defines the protocol as cameras move forward? Who enforces the standard? Is there an open source group that oversees this - like the W3C? Or is controlled only by Adobe? I could look this all up, but trusting a multi-national corporation to "do the right thing," seems a fruitless enterprise.

I suspect many people - including myself - look a little askance at Adobe. I trust the company to do exactly and only what it perceives will give it increased profit and greater control over the market. Acting for the good of the community? Well…



Jan 03, 2018 at 07:46 PM
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