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Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 M-mount now available!
  
 
zhangyue
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JasonEdwardPho wrote:
Looking forward to your thoughts on it.



I received lens yesterday, I did a few snaps around yesterday night, and I test it at infinity to check up decentering this morning. Haven't check the result yet. I will post finding later. (Maybe in that long thread to keep all information related with this lens in one single thread.)

For M, It will bring up 50mm frame line, this will be a little concern to be honest, I have to keep frame myself out side of frame line every time. For critical composition, this will be an issue actually. I use Leica EVF on my MP240 this afternoon shooting around between work. Rangefinder Focusing is very accurate and easy. My keeper rate is high, about the same as 50lux ASPH. For good in spec rangefinder camera and lens, I found focus is extreme easy, fast and reliable.

Focusing is a little on smooth side for my taste, but not to the concern level. Infinity is a hair less than hard stop at f1.2, but at f2~2.8, the sharpest focus is at hard stop. (I think I read Fred had similar finding in his E version). For 50lux ASPH, at f1.4, hard stop give best sharpness, but at f2.8, slightly pull back a hair giving best resolution, exact opposite of this Noctron. I'd say they both have very minor focus shift. (did I say very minor)

I feel the lens has the exact aperture blade as E version, I am a little disappointed to find that is the case. I thought it has rounded aperture ring mentioned somewhere. So yeh, it will give sunstar at f2.8. I like sunstar but don't like over use it now, or make itself as subject of interesting or dominate in the image with long spike. So I use EVF to carefully play hide and seek to avoid it to be too strong. EVF is very handy in this case for composition and check sunstar or flare, but I still focus use RF and way prefer it over EVF under harsh back light condition especially at shooting aperture. This reminded me why I think Leica M is the best MILC offer both good on EVF and OVF. Unfortunately, blank out and delay are feel very old fashioned compare to latest Sony.

To be continued.

Let me know if you guys have any question on M version on RF body.



Dec 13, 2017 at 01:42 AM
rscheffler
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Is there much viewfinder blockage and have you decided on a hood?

Looking forward to more of your insights. It annoys me too that it doesn't seem to have the claimed rounded aperture blades as I'm not a huge fan of strong starbursts. IIRC in the Sony thread there was some talk of a bit of focus shift, so interested in more of your thoughts here, if it's really a factor.


JasonEdwardPho wrote:
I was about to pick up the 35 1.2, but this could be fantastic.

Anyones compare the two of them yet?


The 35 is a pretty big and beefy lens, whereas the 40 seems more RF friendly.

This would be an interesting comparison. My guess, having owned the 35/1.2 on Leica digital M is that the 35 is more optimized for near distance and not so great at far distances until stopped down a ways. It's sharp enough centrally but has some field curvature that I found a bit annoying when a planar subject extended off-center. From reading the long 40/1.2 Sony thread, it seems the 40 is really good at far distances and softens up a bit a near distances (sub 1.5m?). It's probably more like the 35/1.7, but about a stop faster.



Dec 13, 2017 at 02:24 AM
zhangyue
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rscheffler wrote:
Is there much viewfinder blockage and have you decided on a hood?

Looking forward to more of your insights. It annoys me too that it doesn't seem to have the claimed rounded aperture blades as I'm not a huge fan of strong starbursts. IIRC in the Sony thread there was some talk of a bit of focus shift, so interested in more of your thoughts here, if it's really a factor.


The 35 is a pretty big and beefy lens, whereas the 40 seems more RF friendly.

This would be an interesting comparison. My guess, having owned the 35/1.2 on Leica
...Show more

I haven't receive my 52-58 adapter ring yet, however, I have no plan for hood. The viewfinder blockage is very minor with bare lens, only at the extreme frame line corner. I would say no issue for composition. However, it is 50mm frame line.
As for focus shift, I haven't carefully evaluate yet, but only based on infinity focusing is slightly different between f1.2 and f2. Most likely it is nonissue for real world shooting. Maybe will take a look later just through EVF by changing aperture and tell you the results if you trust my word

I just uploaded my testing results for sharpness on LR, briefly browse the images, It is a well behaved copy. So far, I feel the lens might actually perform better than E version, but Leica M is 24M. I will upload the image later.

Given size difference, I will not even consider 35mm f1.2. However, I just bought 35mm f1.7. I will test it against this one later.



Dec 13, 2017 at 04:43 AM
SharpContrast
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The m-mount when stopped down does perform well on the A7rmkii.
Out of camera jpg's:

DSC04624 by David Andrews, on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/EgfXU1

Voigtlander 40mm 1.2 VM by David Andrews, on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/22ntjzq

Its also great close up

2017-12-13_11-05-07 by David Andrews, on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/217sw9F

Its ony when you want corner sharpenss below f5.6 where it gets a little sketchy.
I will be having a play with a PCX2500 at the weekend if I get the spare time, Fred seems to think the PCX5000 is better suited though.

Have to say I'm loving this lens way more than the E-Mount version on my a7rmkii.
I'm a sucker for small lenses and I'm not so bothered by the corners generally.
Also AF with the techart is almost a must when shooting at f1.2, I like the lens so much its making me want to get A7rmkiii so I can use Eye Autofocus with it


Edited on Dec 13, 2017 at 03:19 PM · View previous versions



Dec 13, 2017 at 11:36 AM
SharpContrast
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I wonder if it would have been possible for Voigtlander to desgn an E-mount version as small as the M-mount?

2017-12-13_02-44-25 by David Andrews, on Flickr

2017-12-13_03-00-38 by David Andrews, on Flickr

2017-12-13_03-01-22 by David Andrews, on Flickr

The Exit Pupil is the same size

What we need is Bastain to interview someone at Voigtlander



Dec 13, 2017 at 03:04 PM
zhangyue
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David, with adaptor, are they about the same size? it is trade off between AF and FC/sharpness I guess.
I like the weight and size but wish it is not the fat it is just not handsome on M.

The lens is sharp though on M system. Modern VC m glass are good Id say. Really good.



Dec 13, 2017 at 05:00 PM
sebboh
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SharpContrast wrote:
I wonder if it would have been possible for Voigtlander to desgn an E-mount version as small as the M-mount?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4565/27254928039_0f7ff96de1_c.jpg2017-12-13_02-44-25 by David Andrews, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/24167591467_7444326d36_c.jpg2017-12-13_03-00-38 by David Andrews, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4517/25161108358_4124e351c2_c.jpg2017-12-13_03-01-22 by David Andrews, on Flickr

The Exit Pupil is the same size

What we need is Bastain to interview someone at Voigtlander


i'm sure they could have, they just didn't see the need.



Dec 13, 2017 at 05:01 PM
sebboh
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zhangyue wrote:
David, with adaptor, are they about the same size? it is trade off between AF and FC/sharpness I guess.
I like the weight and size but wish it is not the fat it is just not handsome on M.

The lens is sharp though on M system. Modern VC m glass are good Id say. Really good.


can we get a pic of it on camera? does it look like a bloated c-sonnar?




Dec 13, 2017 at 05:02 PM
zhangyue
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Yeh, exact remind me sonnar but sonnar is prettier for much small diameter.

Picture will follow later.
sebboh wrote:
can we get a pic of it on camera? does it look like a bloated c-sonnar?





Dec 13, 2017 at 05:08 PM
zhangyue
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rscheffler wrote:
IIRC in the Sony thread there was some talk of a bit of focus shift, so interested in more of your thoughts here, if it's really a factor.



Hi, Ron, I just did a focus shift test on this lens, It show backward shift, but at two distance I tested at about 0.9M and 2M, in both case, DOF cover the shift. So basically, you will see DOF window shift back and your focus point will be in front portion of DOF window when you stop down the aperture.

To sum up, it is not an issue for M shooter. Again, I want reemphasis here: For both M and DSLR, one of most important feature I prefer them over Sony is focusing isolated with shooting aperture. With fully understood lens, isolate focus with shooting aperture say f8 f11 is life saver in field for me.




Dec 13, 2017 at 06:59 PM
 

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zhangyue
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Here is iPhone snap when I did focus shift test for Ron and myself






sebboh wrote:
can we get a pic of it on camera? does it look like a bloated c-sonnar?




Edited on Dec 13, 2017 at 07:25 PM · View previous versions



Dec 13, 2017 at 07:04 PM
Makten
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SharpContrast wrote:
I wonder if it would have been possible for Voigtlander to desgn an E-mount version as small as the M-mount?


Certainly, if MFD was restricted to the same 0.5 meters. Personally I wouldn't mind that at all.



Dec 13, 2017 at 07:13 PM
rscheffler
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Thanks Michael!

SharpContrast wrote:
I wonder if it would have been possible for Voigtlander to desgn an E-mount version as small as the M-mount?

Is the aperture in the Sony version manual stop down or is it electronically controlled? If the latter, this might explain some of the additional girth.

The Exit Pupil is the same size


FWIW, the exit pupil is not the diameter of the rear element. Please see here on Wiki for a definition of exit pupil.

So, when you hold the two lenses side by side, looking through them from the rear at the same aperture setting, does the 'pupil' of light look to be the same size? Or is one larger than the other?



Dec 13, 2017 at 07:44 PM
JasonEdwardPho
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Would also like to know how this would compare to the Zeiss 50 1.5.


Dec 13, 2017 at 08:32 PM
zhangyue
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JasonEdwardPho wrote:
Would also like to know how this would compare to the Zeiss 50 1.5.


Zeiss Sonnar is a nice portrait lens, but no matter how much you stop down the lens, it is never get sharp cross frame. It is smaller with focus bump which is nice for M shooting.



Dec 14, 2017 at 12:41 AM
rscheffler
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Michael, saw your photos in the other thread. Maybe it's too early to say, but do you feel this lens might take the place of other lenses currently in your rotation? For your day to day photos. I mean you have some nice lenses, like the 35 Lux pre-ASPH, 35 Cron v1, 50 Lux ASPH. Did you mention you also just got the 35/1.7?

I'm tempted by this lens, but a bit at a loss how I will integrate it. It's bulkier than the 35/1.7, though a bit shorter. Would it replace my 50 Lux ASPH, with which I have a love/hate relationship (love its character/rendering wide open, dislike the mid zone dip at f/2.8-4 and my copy chronically loosens up and loses calibration, requiring servicing every couple years).

Maybe 40mm could replace 35 and 50 and I could go 21, 28, 40, 90... It would complement 28mm better than the 35 currently does.

Lastly, have you coded it for use on the M? If so, what did you choose?



Dec 14, 2017 at 01:24 AM
zhangyue
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rscheffler wrote:
Michael, saw your photos in the other thread. Maybe it's too early to say, but do you feel this lens might take the place of other lenses currently in your rotation? For your day to day photos. I mean you have some nice lenses, like the 35 Lux pre-ASPH, 35 Cron v1, 50 Lux ASPH. Did you mention you also just got the 35/1.7?

I'm tempted by this lens, but a bit at a loss how I will integrate it. It's bulkier than the 35/1.7, though a bit shorter. Would it replace my 50 Lux ASPH, with which I have a
...Show more

Hi, Ron, You are right that is too early to tell. but based on what I have seen, I'd say it will not replace 50lux ASPH It is almost a religion for me, the day I quit 50lux would be the day I quit M, but I am not seeing that happen.

50lux ASPH indeed show its age, it won't be as sharp cross frame before f4, and won't deal with flare as nice as this one, However to me, there is something special associate 50lux in term of bokeh, sharpness and focus transition, sometime I feel it is a little too predicable, but after use all kind of 50mm lens, I always come back realize it is the one. It is a high class rendering glass (a word I create for certain lens), I don;t see that is happen with 40mm. (it is personal though).

I no longer have 35cron V1, I kept 35lux pre-ASPH for its unique rendering and small size, it is a piece of history and a special brush. I also have ltm 35mm Summaron another special tool less than 100g. I did buy 35mm f1.7 as I need a more general 35mm lens, it is on its way to me. I have thought about it since it first show up and after saw you and other FMers' results with that lens. Only its awkward barrel design keep me from trying it, but price, size and performance definitely make it top contender out of all 35mm option out there and you know ZM35 didn't work out for me.

35mm is one of most important focal to me and that is my one lens out solution with M but none of them travel with me because one reason: RX1. The sonnar is too good. My regular set up is RX1 with 50lux on M. 21SEM for wide and 90AA for long. I don't expect that setup change. Because of RX1, 28cron become redundant and get sold. However, I don't think RX1 will make it for you as it is not good enough for pro for different reason, I have no experience for RX1II. Q is on the big side for me.

I think 21 28 40 90 will be a nice set. Mine basically is 21 32(RX1) 50 and 90. My personal affair with 50lux define it an anchor piece in my M setup, your milage may be different. I'd suggest you keep 40 temporarily (it has reliable optic performance for pro use) and send your 50lux ASPH to DAG to fully overhaul, tell him the history and concern you have, I believe he can handle this well. I highly recommend him. After a month or two with 40mm, you can decide yourself if it is good enough to earn a spot in your bag.

As for coding, I didn't code it. if I do, I will code it as old 50 noct I think for EXIF but I worry Noct may have more distortion than this 40mm.




Dec 14, 2017 at 04:37 AM
SharpContrast
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rscheffler wrote:
Thanks Michael!

FWIW, the exit pupil is not the diameter of the rear element. Please see here on Wiki for a definition of exit pupil.

So, when you hold the two lenses side by side, looking through them from the rear at the same aperture setting, does the 'pupil' of light look to be the same size? Or is one larger than the other?


Thanks for correcting me on what the exit pupil is! (everyday is a school day: )
I have just done the test you suggested and it appears that they are same size.
It dosent look like in the picture but I have measured it.

Exit Pupil is the same size by David Andrews, on Flickr



Dec 14, 2017 at 10:51 AM
rscheffler
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Thanks David. Yes, it appears to be the same size. I superimposed the image of one over the other and they seemed to be the same.

Thanks Michael. Food for thought. The 40/1.2 should allow me to go without the 50 Lux ASPH for a while to get it serviced and has some desirable characteristics of its own.

Regarding coding: it only affects vignetting and correction of peripheral color shift. It doesn't address lens distortion. It would only be a factor if you automatically applied lens profile correction in Lightroom, for example.

BTW, I found the 35/1.7 showed some color shift on the M240... I've hand-coded it as the 35 Cron ASPH, IIRC.



Dec 14, 2017 at 03:33 PM
SharpContrast
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rscheffler wrote:
Thanks David. Yes, it appears to be the same size. I superimposed the image of one over the other and they seemed to be the same.

Thanks Michael. Food for thought. The 40/1.2 should allow me to go without the 50 Lux ASPH for a while to get it serviced and has some desirable characteristics of its own.

Regarding coding: it only affects vignetting and correction of peripheral color shift. It doesn't address lens distortion. It would only be a factor if you automatically applied lens profile correction in Lightroom, for example.

BTW, I found the 35/1.7 showed some color shift on
...Show more


Can you suggest a reason why the FE version might be brighter than the VM version on the Sony?
These examples were shot in full manual mode with the same light and settings.

Voigtlander 40mm @ 1.2 E by David Andrews, on Flickr
https://flic.kr/p/Ea8ygE
Voigtlander 40mm @ 1.2 M by David Andrews, on Flickr
https://flic.kr/p/Ea8C6y



Dec 14, 2017 at 04:31 PM
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