Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       end
  

Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs
  
 
elfanucchi
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


More DR sounds good .. but with PS options and adjustments .. and in camera HDR .. its not such a big thing ..

Yes there is a bunch of mis-information out there ..
but there is more internal self bias information that is used as marketing desperation !



Nov 30, 2017 at 04:07 PM
RobCD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


elfanucchi wrote:
More DR sounds good .. but with PS options and adjustments .. and in camera HDR .. its not such a big thing ..



From that perspective not many of the features or performance characteristics on any camera are big things because there are and have always been alternative ways and workarounds to achieve most things. Sometimes it is not about whether you can or can't achieve similar results but more about the experience you have getting there and minimizing opportunities for user error or unforeseen problems. High resolution images and excellent dynamic range make the post processing experience more enjoyable to me and offer more opportunities to get the desired result even if the end result for a particular image isn't significantly better than you can potentially achieve using workarounds or more complicated processes with a lower resolution camera or a camera with less dynamic range.

But we're always working around some limitation of the camera we're using so I do think that if you find other features that your camera offers that you consider more important than DR then you just work around having less DR and move on.




Nov 30, 2017 at 05:41 PM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


RobCD wrote:
From that perspective not many of the features or performance characteristics on any camera are big things because there are and have always been alternative ways and workarounds to achieve most things. Sometimes it is not about whether you can or can't achieve similar results but more about the experience you have getting there and minimizing opportunities for user error or unforeseen problems. High resolution images and excellent dynamic range make the post processing experience more enjoyable to me and offer more opportunities to get the desired result even if the end result for a particular image isn't significantly better
...Show more

^^^ +1, so many things can be workaround but why stop there when we can double or triple the results from a better tool. It's always a great available option whenever refreshing time of our tool has came.



Nov 30, 2017 at 05:50 PM
SoundHound
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


The biggest DR numbers are at the lowest ISOs but the more important DR numbers are at very Hi ISOs where a 1/2 stop is very significant since the DR is so low.


Dec 01, 2017 at 01:36 PM
RobCD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SoundHound wrote:
The biggest DR numbers are at the lowest ISOs but the more important DR numbers are at very Hi ISOs where a 1/2 stop is very significant since the DR is so low.


In my experience and at least based on my own needs the opposite is true for a couple of reasons. I rarely use higher ISOs and the subjects I photograph at base ISO are the one's that benefit most from more DR. I'm sure those that use higher ISOs most of the time do appreciate more DR although I'm curious if the need is as great as it is for those that mainly use low ISOs for landscapes.



Dec 01, 2017 at 05:59 PM
SoundHound
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


When you have DR approaching 15 stops, at lowest ISOs, 1/2 stop is not as important as when you are working at 5 or 6 stops of DR at something like 12,800 ISO. Thatís where a 1/2 stop is most/more important.

The Nikon D5 has only about a 1/2 stop of extra hi ISO range over certain competitors. To do this they give up some low ISO DR such that it matches their D3s-a much older Camera. Yes it is the equal of the current Canon bodies low ISO DR but it has a deficit for the D810/D850. Such is the price for Hi ISO specialization.

Pardon the cross comparison of Canon/Sony/Nikon.



Dec 02, 2017 at 01:22 AM
RobCD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SoundHound wrote:
When you have DR approaching 15 stops, at lowest ISOs, 1/2 stop is not as important as when you are working at 5 or 6 stops of DR at something like 12,800 ISO. Thatís where a 1/2 stop is most/more important.

The Nikon D5 has only about a 1/2 stop of extra hi ISO range over certain competitors. To do this they give up some low ISO DR such that it matches their D3s-a much older Camera. Yes it is the equal of the current Canon bodies low ISO DR but it has a deficit for the D810/D850. Such is
...Show more

I understand why it would be important but that assumes that you are using ISOs like ISO12800 which I've never used and it assumes that your subject requires more dynamic range which is usually not an issue for me when I do occasionally use higher ISOs like ISO3200 and ISO6400. If the majority of people using cameras like the A7rIII or the D850 used higher ISOs the majority of the time I could see DR at those ISOs being most important but since I believe the opposite is true I believe DR is most important at base ISO for these high resolution cameras. But for cameras like the D5 and Sony A7sII sure I think it makes sense.



Dec 02, 2017 at 02:45 PM
SoundHound
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


As a low light specialist I can testify that you set such high ISOs due to dim light beyond your control. Often still too dim for an optimum exposure so you are forced to pull up the files and shadows in Photoshop. Thatís where every bit of DR is important.

Of course if thatís not your kind of work and you shoot in plenty of light it has no meaning (to you) but there is enough iof this low light work for Nikon (and to some extent Canon too) to made a $6500 Flagship low light specialist camera. So at least a few other people are involved.



Dec 03, 2017 at 05:04 AM
nandadevieast
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


I read somewhere that with pixel shift tech, the DR improves by 1 more stop.


Dec 03, 2017 at 07:09 AM
nandadevieast
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Was talking about this
http://briansmith.com/sony-a7r-iii-pixel-shift-adds-one-stop-dynamic-range-increase/



Dec 03, 2017 at 02:04 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 

        


bclaff_too
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


nandadevieast wrote:
Was talking about this
http://briansmith.com/sony-a7r-iii-pixel-shift-adds-one-stop-dynamic-range-increase/


Or Sony Pixel Multi Shooting Special Edition to go directly to PhotonsToPhotos



Dec 03, 2017 at 02:54 PM
philip_pj
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Always important to realize that high ISO is itself a fudge, to be used when all other avenues are exhausted. High DR is a blessing at base or near (a gamut large enough to enclose scene SBR), but for (non-pod/dim light) still subject matter IBIS/VR/technique and lower ISO levels come close to obviating the specialized low light cameras - if pure image quality is your goal rather than say, surveillance.

In fact, the low light cameras are often worse at the same high ISO than all rounders like the a7rII for the other major picture quality factors involved, such as color integrity and tonal range. It all dies off with alarming haste with advancing ISO.




Dec 03, 2017 at 10:46 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


bclaff_too wrote:
Or Sony Pixel Multi Shooting Special Edition to go directly to PhotonsToPhotos


Bill,
Does pixel shift provides the same SNR benefit as averaging 4 images using mean stack mode? I think I'm going to test this tomorrow.



Dec 05, 2017 at 05:15 AM
bclaff_too
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Fred Miranda wrote:
Bill,
Does pixel shift provides the same SNR benefit as averaging 4 images using mean stack mode? I think I'm going to test this tomorrow.


Fred, yes, that is what I would expect.



Dec 05, 2017 at 05:37 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


That's great. According to the chart below, 8 averaged shots give us the best bang for the buck as far as SNR improvement and number of total averaged images.

I was thinking of running 2 sequences of pixel shift (4 image each) and averaging the two resulting images in Photoshop using a mean stack.
When adding ETTR for all images, this could probably replace bracketing all together with superb detail and shadow quality.







Dec 05, 2017 at 05:57 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's great. According to the chart below, 8 averaged shots give us the best bang for the buck as far as SNR improvement and number of total averaged images.


It's worth noting that the chart shows the reduction in photon noise with stacking, but doesn't take into account the read noise. Read noise variance scales linearly with the number of images stacked.

That's why you only get 1 stop increase in DR when stacking 4 images (which is 2 extra stops of light). If you're interested in DR then bracketing will provide vastly superior results to stacking (e.g. you can easily get an extra 9 stops with 3 exposures). Bracketing also reduces photon noise in the darker parts of the image (which is the only place it matters, photon noise in highlights is negligible) much more effectively than stacking.

The only time I'd consider stacking would be to work around thermal noise in long exposures or the star eater filtering (or to provide a simulated ND filter effect).



Dec 05, 2017 at 10:41 AM
timballic
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


philip_pj wrote:
Always important to realize that high ISO is itself a fudge, to be used when all other avenues are exhausted. High DR is a blessing at base or near (a gamut large enough to enclose scene SBR), but for (non-pod/dim light) still subject matter IBIS/VR/technique and lower ISO levels come close to obviating the specialized low light cameras - if pure image quality is your goal rather than say, surveillance.

In fact, the low light cameras are often worse at the same high ISO than all rounders like the a7rII for the other major picture quality factors involved, such as color
...Show more

How high ISO can you go, (say with the A7RII), before the "fudge" sets in? Is it always better, (if possible), to use longer exposure and lower ISO? A thread on this subject, with examples, would be very welcome.



Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26 AM
Viramati
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


I have no actual data but I shot an event on Saturday night all with the electronic shutter at iso 3200 and I would certainly say that I am getting slightly better DR than with the A7rII (enough to notice) and that is with using the exiftool conversion in Lr CC


Dec 05, 2017 at 11:35 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


timballic wrote:
How high ISO can you go, (say with the A7RII), before the "fudge" sets in? Is it always better, (if possible), to use longer exposure and lower ISO?


Ignoring thermal noise from long exposures, then it is always better to use a longer exposure and lower ISO, and this applies to all cameras.

NR kicks in at ISO 32,000 on the A7RIII, so I would stay below that. In fact if I were shooting at ISO 25600 I would have a good long think about what I'm doing and if there was a better way.

Related point, if you can stand the dark viewfinder or lack of exposure preview, then you should never need to go beyond ISO 640, as there's no gain [pun unintended] compared to fixing the exposure in post.



Viramati wrote:
I have no actual data but I shot an event on Saturday night all with the electronic shutter at iso 3200 and I would certainly say that I am getting slightly better DR than with the A7rII (enough to notice) and that is with using the exiftool conversion in Lr CC


I think that's just differences in lighting tricking you - controlled tests indicate no increase in DR compared to the mkII at any ISO above 400.




Dec 05, 2017 at 01:02 PM
timballic
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Thanks Matt, that's very good to know.


Dec 05, 2017 at 01:32 PM
1       2       3      
4
       5       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password