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Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs
  
 
charles.K
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Kudos to Sony with the A7rIII
Honestly we are reaching the cusp of achievable DR with FF and minor differences in DR are more than offset by noise, color depth, rendering and feel of the images. The further increases in DR will be minimal and for real photography it is of no importance. The fact that FF and MF are almost similar in DR suggests strongly that the sensors are using best available technologies and would require another major advance in sensor development and manufacturing before we see a significant jump in DR.



Nov 28, 2017 at 11:02 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


'The difference is there, just not so large. DxOMark puts it at 0.8 stops while PhotonsToPhotos shows 0.23 stops.'

Uncorrected statistical mistakes compound into the future with often unpredictable consequences. It's the reason all honorable statistical agencies frequently issue revisions.



Nov 28, 2017 at 11:32 PM
Charlie N
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


that's 0.8 difference, and in both directions, which would give you 0.4 in one direction. Nice, but not dramatic IMO.


Nov 28, 2017 at 11:37 PM
mttran
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Matt Grum wrote:
It's less than a tenth of a stop at ISO, which is below the experimental error. The A7RIII is impressive as it manages to have the very nearly the best DR at ISO100 and ISO12800.

What's amazing to me is that there's no real advantage in DR with medium format (~ one quarter of a stop), you can have that performance in your pocket:









+1, can't wait for the new deeper pixels well structure for the next BSI stack sensor version. This will give us more speed and light sensitivities.



Nov 28, 2017 at 11:38 PM
DavidBM
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs




mttran wrote:
+1, can't wait for the new deeper pixels well structure for the next BSI stack sensor version. This will give us more speed and light sensitivities.

Deeper wells will give less sensitivity, though possibly more dr at a lower base.
And stacked structure may other things being equal give more noise, though better af and fps.

Theres no free lunch.



Nov 28, 2017 at 11:52 PM
BlueBomberTurbo
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


mttran wrote:
A well done job in DR, AE/AF accuracy improvement and speedy speed. I like to see sony to keep a big smile for all new generation models. Btw, where is A9R while we speak

PDR from Bill's works: A7R -> A7R2 -> A7R3 -> D850
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4556/37904771654_c33c357bf1_o.jpg


Does this pretty much confirm that highlight DR isn't measured in these tests? ISO 50 (Sonys) and 32 (D850) aren't native, so they just take the base ISO (Sony at 100, Nikon at 64), overexpose it by 1 stop, then pull it back to the proper exposure in RAW/JPG. This would lose 1 stop of highlights by clipping it. Yet the DR scores actually go up, despite losing DR. Of course, on the shadow side, it would feed the sensor even more light for cleaner shadows.

That said, from testing sample RAWs, the A7R III has about 0.25 stop advantage at highlight recovery over the D850. A bit odd, since my A6300s and old A6000 have another 0.20 stop of highlights on top of that. Then again, adding highlight DR would bring Bill Claff's score up to around 14 stops...



Nov 29, 2017 at 02:29 AM
bclaff_too
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


philip_pj wrote:
'The difference is there, just not so large. DxOMark puts it at 0.8 stops while PhotonsToPhotos shows 0.23 stops.'

Uncorrected statistical mistakes compound into the future with often unpredictable consequences. It's the reason all honorable statistical agencies frequently issue revisions.


FWIW, measurements at PhotonsToPhotos are always subject to change if new data comes in.
There was a significant change to the Nikon D750 recently.
As far as I know, DxOMark has never restated anything (and they do have errors).



Nov 29, 2017 at 02:34 AM
bclaff_too
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Charlie N wrote:
that's 0.8 difference, and in both directions, which would give you 0.4 in one direction. Nice, but not dramatic IMO.


Variation in Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) at PhotonsToPhotos from measurement to measurement is generally below 0.07 stops; so a 0.80 difference would be huge.
In the case of DxOMark, that 0.8 is mostly because the Mark II should have scored higher.



Nov 29, 2017 at 02:36 AM
bclaff_too
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
Does this pretty much confirm that highlight DR isn't measured in these tests? ISO 50 (Sonys) and 32 (D850) aren't native, so they just take the base ISO (Sony at 100, Nikon at 64), overexpose it by 1 stop, then pull it back to the proper exposure in RAW/JPG. This would lose 1 stop of highlights by clipping it. Yet the DR scores actually go up, despite losing DR. Of course, on the shadow side, it would feed the sensor even more light for cleaner shadows.

Which extended ISO setting scores go up?
Given the accuracy of about 0.07; 1 or 2 hundredths certainly doesn't count.
BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
That said, from testing sample RAWs, the A7R III has about 0.25 stop advantage at highlight recovery over the D850. A bit odd, since my A6300s and old A6000 have another 0.20 stop of highlights on top of that. Then again, adding highlight DR would bring Bill Claff's score up to around 14 stops...


I'm totally baffled by "adding highlight DR" to bring the measurement up to around 14 stops.
The complete dynamic range is measured; no "highlight" dynamic range is missing.



Nov 29, 2017 at 02:42 AM
SouthwestS2K
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs



D850 vs A7R III, one is stable with a proven record, good battery and exceptional reviews by photographers. The other? Checkered history of failed shutters, firmware corrupting, sensor banding and terrible battery life. I think photographers going into uncontrolled environments know which one to choose where the other is a good studio camera, which is nice because they can charge the batteries after 200 shots. That's my 0.02 on this, because its not just about a slight difference in DR or ISO but its actual use and dependability.



Nov 29, 2017 at 06:28 PM
 

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bclaff_too
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SouthwestS2K wrote:
D850 vs A7R III, ... sensor banding ...


Which one do you claim has "sensor banding"; and I'd like to see some evidence.



Nov 29, 2017 at 07:03 PM
SouthwestS2K
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


bclaff_too wrote:
Which one do you claim has "sensor banding"; and I'd like to see some evidence.


A9 has sensor banding. Jared Polin from FroKnows showed this in a video review, among others on YouTube than others on various forums on the web. The A7RII suffered some sensor banding as well.



Nov 29, 2017 at 07:09 PM
bclaff_too
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SouthwestS2K wrote:
A9 has sensor banding. Jared Polin from FroKnows showed this in a video review, among others on YouTube than others on various forums on the web. The A7RII suffered some sensor banding as well.


You may want to see my post A7R3 Fixed Pattern Noise (FPN) Looks Improved Over the A7RM2 (title says it all )



Nov 29, 2017 at 07:15 PM
SouthwestS2K
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


bclaff_too wrote:
You may want to see my post A7R3 Fixed Pattern Noise (FPN) Looks Improved Over the A7RM2 (title says it all )


Nice, much improved. I'm not saying the Alpha cameras can't take stunning images, which they have.. but they have a very checkered history. I mean, when I was shooting Canon, I was ready to switch to Sony but actual owners, many of which were on here, told me stay away because of the issues they had and even worse repair stories. Lots of Sony owners told me they switched back to Nikon after owning Sony. After taking their advice, looking at both systems, I ended up switching to Nikon and been there ever since.



Nov 29, 2017 at 07:31 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


bclaff_too wrote:
You may want to see my post A7R3 Fixed Pattern Noise (FPN) Looks Improved Over the A7RM2 (title says it all )


Thanks Bill.
I have encountered that blotchy pattern when pushing some of my landscapes images, especially in solid areas like a clear sky. I'm glad there is an improvement for the Mark III.



Nov 29, 2017 at 07:35 PM
bclaff_too
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks Bill.
I have encountered that blotchy pattern when pushing some of my landscapes images, especially in solid areas like a clear sky. I'm glad there is an improvement for the Mark III.


Thanks for the anecdotal report. This is exactly how I would predict it might appear visually.



Nov 29, 2017 at 08:10 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SouthwestS2K wrote:
A9 has sensor banding. Jared Polin from FroKnows showed this in a video review, among others on YouTube than others on various forums on the web. The A7RII suffered some sensor banding as well.


Unless these folks are on are on wide gamut monitors which i highly doubt but on SRGB monitors than I really question this sensor banding. In short there is none on wide gamut monitors which If you don't know have a far bigger color gamut in them almost equal to Adobe RGB 1998 . SRGB monitors are not even close to Adobe RGB 1998 which narrows the color gamut.

But i don't want to get into this whole deal. Thats for another thread on color management

Bottom line I made a career on Nikons but they are not even close to perfect i sent 2 D800's in for some serious AF off center issues. But this stuff comes in every system. But I will do anything and go anywhere with the Sonys and my neck is always on the line, this is what i do for real money.



Nov 29, 2017 at 08:18 PM
JohnDizzo15
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SouthwestS2K wrote:
D850 vs A7R III, one is stable with a proven record, good battery and exceptional reviews by photographers. The other? Checkered history of failed shutters, firmware corrupting, sensor banding and terrible battery life. I think photographers going into uncontrolled environments know which one to choose where the other is a good studio camera, which is nice because they can charge the batteries after 200 shots. That's my 0.02 on this, because its not just about a slight difference in DR or ISO but its actual use and dependability.


Kind of an interesting and selective take. But I'll bite. lol.

Track record - Nikon hasn't exactly been the spitting image of stable and solid upon release in recent years. Just a tad bit of a memory rewind would reveal a few blaringly egregious examples.

Good battery - This is moot at this point as anyone who has operated the A9 can tell you (myself being one of them) as they share the same new battery. I have gotten upwards of 2000 shots on a single charge at times. Never any fewer than 1000.

Exceptional reviews - Both said cameras have had exceptional reviews by photographers.

Shutter failures - Not sure what you're referring to as far as there being a tangible/measured difference between releases from the respective companies. Please point me toward some hard numbers if possible from which you base this statement.

Firmware corrupting - Please see rebuttal from the shutter failures section.

Sensor banding - From first hand experience from over 30k clicks with the A9 in ES, this is not a real issue for 99.9% of my shots. Also, the A7R3 features an anti-flickering mechanism of some sort. I don't have one so I can't speak to it. But I imagine it is cited as a new feature because it does have some positive effect.

Terrible battery life - Please see rebuttal from the good battery section.

Controlled environment shooting statement - If anything, the DSLR is still a safer bet for the studio as we are all familiar with its ability to focus stopped down and its wide compatibility with strobes/various lighting where the Sony mirrorless bodies have been questionable at times on both fronts. Regarding having to charge the battery after 200 shots, please see previous rebuttals to battery references.

Your entire assessment/statement reads as though it is written from the vantage point of someone who hasn't been all that informed or experienced in the mirrorless arena in it's most recent entries. It is also indicative of a vantage point from which many of Nikon's recent shortcomings have either been selectively ignored or forgotten about. Just my 0.02 cents.




Nov 29, 2017 at 08:34 PM
Matt Grum
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


SouthwestS2K wrote:
D850 vs A7R III, one is stable with a proven record, good battery and exceptional reviews by photographers. The other? Checkered history of failed shutters, firmware corrupting, sensor banding and terrible battery life.


Well the A7RIII definitely doesn't have a chequered history of failed shutters, firmware corruption, sensor banding or terrible battery life, so by a process of elimination I can only conclude you're talking about the D850 there.


Edited on Nov 30, 2017 at 07:43 AM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2017 at 11:10 PM
SouthwestS2K
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Matt Grum wrote:
Well the A7RII I definitely doesn't have a chequered history of failed shutters, firmware corruption, sensor banding or terrible battery life, so by a process of elimination I can only conclude you're talking about the D850 there.


Give it a few weeks. Just like every release from Sony, you'll start hearing of them. If you read my post, common sense shows I was talking about Sony Alpha cameras. Your processes of elimination wasn't that great unfortunately.



Nov 30, 2017 at 04:01 AM
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