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Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs
DXO posted their Sony A7R III test results today and according to them, the new Sony A7R III improved over its predecessor in Dynamic Range and ISO performance. It looks like Sony's 15 stop DR is confirmed by this test, even though both cameras share the same 42MP sensor.

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Nov 28, 2017 at 07:23 PM
mttran
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


A well done job in DR, AE/AF accuracy improvement and speedy speed. I like to see sony to keep a big smile for all new generation models. Btw, where is A9R while we speak

PDR from Bill's works: A7R -> A7R2 -> A7R3 -> D850







Nov 28, 2017 at 07:33 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Good maybe we may keep a few folks from being fanboys. Lol

Iím half joking here.



Nov 28, 2017 at 08:00 PM
molson
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Fred Miranda wrote:
It looks like Sony's 15 stop DR is confirmed by this test, even though both cameras share the same 42MP sensor.



Since we're liberally rounding up, I guess that puts the Fuji GFX, Hasselblad X1D, and Pentax 645Z at 16 stops of DR

It looks like the original A7R is still the King of Sony DR though.








Nov 28, 2017 at 08:07 PM
leetmode
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


molson wrote:
Since we're liberally rounding up, I guess that puts the Fuji GFX, Hasselblad X1D, and Pentax 645Z at 16 stops of DR


IMO, rounding up 14.7 to 15 isn't really that liberal. Rounding up 14.8 to 16 is... but what do I know.



Nov 28, 2017 at 08:44 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Still wondering if the A7r3 is this good at ISO 100, why they didnít add a real ISO64...they would have passed the d850. Hurt high ISO too much, more expensive to develope, some technilogical tradeoff/limitation or good enough mentality?

Thoughts?



Nov 28, 2017 at 08:45 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


I havenít shot with an A7R iii personally but from the side to side DR comparisons Iíve seen it certainly doesnít look like it delivers 0.8 EVs of additional DR so I am surprised to see these results from DxO.


Nov 28, 2017 at 08:53 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Aztatlan wrote:
I havenít shot with an A7R iii personally but from the side to side DR comparisons Iíve seen it certainly doesnít look like it delivers 0.8 EVs of additional DR so I am surprised to see these results from DxO.


The A7r2 was tested pre fw allowing for uncompressed raw, giving a bump in DR. Others may know better, but youíre really getting about a .4 stop boost I think.



Nov 28, 2017 at 09:05 PM
virtualrain
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Aztatlan wrote:
I havenít shot with an A7R iii personally but from the side to side DR comparisons Iíve seen it certainly doesnít look like it delivers 0.8 EVs of additional DR so I am surprised to see these results from DxO.


I don't think you can make an assessment of DR until you start trying to pull shadows and even then, the difference in noise from 0.8 EVs of DR is going to be subtle I think.



Nov 28, 2017 at 09:12 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


virtualrain wrote:
I don't think you can make an assessment of DR until you start trying to pull shadows and even then, the difference in noise from 0.8 EVs of DR is going to be subtle I think.


Well the main basis for my assessment is the DPR dynamic range comparison widget which does allow you to push the exposures. Maybe itís just my eyesight but there definitely isnít 0.8EV advantage in that particular test.

The uncompressed RAW thing does explain it, though.



Nov 28, 2017 at 09:20 PM
 

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Matt Grum
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


molson wrote:
It looks like the original A7R is still the King of Sony DR though.


It's less than a tenth of a stop at ISO, which is below the experimental error. The A7RIII is impressive as it manages to have the very nearly the best DR at ISO100 and ISO12800.

What's amazing to me is that there's no real advantage in DR with medium format (~ one quarter of a stop), you can have that performance in your pocket:










Nov 28, 2017 at 09:23 PM
bclaff_too
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


If you're comparing the DxOMark Landscape figures for the A7RM3 against the A7RM2 (14.7 vs 13.9) you may be interested in this.

The "executive summary" is that DxOMark measured the A7RM2 too low so that makes the improvement look larger than it is.

The difference is there, just not so large.
DxOMark puts it at 0.8 stops while PhotonsToPhotos shows 0.23 stops.



Nov 28, 2017 at 09:29 PM
Matt Grum
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


leetmode wrote:
IMO, rounding up 14.7 to 15 isn't really that liberal. Rounding up 14.8 to 16 is... but what do I know.


You can claim any figure you like for DR since there's no standard to measure it by.


nehemiahphoto wrote:
Still wondering if the A7r3 is this good at ISO 100, why they didnít add a real ISO64...they would have passed the d850.


Because you can't just add a real ISO 64 (except by glueing an ND filter to the sensor). To do it in a way that increases DR for the same pixel size you have to increase the full well capacity, but it's hard to do this without increasing read noise, which hurts DR.


nehemiahphoto wrote:
The A7r2 was tested pre fw allowing for uncompressed raw, giving a bump in DR. Others may know better, but youíre really getting about a .4 stop boost I think.


Compressed RAW makes a very small difference in DR, the delta encoding only affects pixels on the border between very bright and very dark areas. The only other effect of compression in the shadows is a drop from 14 bits to 13 bits, which increases quantisation noise but only very slightly.


Aztatlan wrote:
The uncompressed RAW thing does explain it, though.


I don't think it does, a better explanation I think is that there's a difference between the quantitative shadow noise (used to produce DR graphs) and qualitative shadow noise which is what you see in the dpreview comparison images.



Nov 28, 2017 at 09:37 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


To me and I have to be honest. This all is a total non factor if you shoot Raw.


Nov 28, 2017 at 09:39 PM
mjm6
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


I haven't looked into this too carefully, so I'm a bit behind on the scoring for theses graphs.

What happens between ISO 400 and 800 that causes a handful of the Sony camera to jump back up in DR some before then continuing to drop down? Is a different ADC algorithm being employed?




Nov 28, 2017 at 09:40 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


@ mattgrum

Yes, I am aware the sensor has deeper wells allowing it to collect more light, but is the gain in DR not worth the noise added? Otherwise why would Nikon be doing this? Maybe Sony doesn't think so, which would answer my question of why they don't add an ISO64.

This make sense as there are less artifacts when seriously pushing the files it seems with FW update on the a7r2. DPR and other places said there was a slight bump in DR though--but that's not so? Or are you saying that because of quantisation drop the noise is lightly decreased therefore DR is slightly increased?

Edited on Nov 28, 2017 at 10:04 PM · View previous versions



Nov 28, 2017 at 10:00 PM
molson
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Matt Grum wrote:
What's amazing to me is that there's no real advantage in DR with medium format (~ one quarter of a stop), you can have that performance in your pocket:



There's more to MF than just the DR advantage, of course... the gain in overall image quality is about the same as going from APS-C to Full Frame.



Nov 28, 2017 at 10:01 PM
Matt Grum
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


mjm6 wrote:
What happens between ISO 400 and 800 that causes a handful of the Sony camera to jump back up in DR some before then continuing to drop down? Is a different ADC algorithm being employed?


At ISO 640 the camera engages a different capacitor to alter the conversion gain, decreasing read noise (at the expense of lower FWC, which is not a problem at high sensitivities).


nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes, I am aware the sensor has deeper wells allowing it to collect more light, but is the gain in DR not worth the noise added?


The noise added cancels out the gain in DR, you gain more in the highlights at the expense of the shadows but the overall range is the same (except you need more light).

nehemiahphoto wrote:
This make sense as there are less artifacts when seriously pushing the files it seems with FW update on the a7r2. DPR and other places said there was a slight bump in DR though--but that's not so? Or are you saying that because of quantisation drop the noise is lightly decreased therefore DR is slightly increased?


There is a slight bump but it's very slight, less than 0.4 stops. The bit depth is the only difference between compressed and uncompressed as far as DR is concerned. It adds a small amount of quantization noise which reduces DR.




Nov 28, 2017 at 10:44 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Matt Grum wrote:
At ISO 640 the camera engages a different capacitor to alter the conversion gain, decreasing read noise (at the expense of lower FWC, which is not a problem at high sensitivities).


The noise added cancels out the gain in DR, you gain more in the highlights at the expense of the shadows but the overall range is the same (except you need more light).

There is a slight bump but it's very slight, less than 0.4 stops. The bit depth is the only difference between compressed and uncompressed as far as DR is concerned. It adds a small amount of quantization
...Show more

This all makes sense and what I suspected. Sony is prioritizing low ISO for high ISO performance. Which is fine, though I would have preferred the profile of the d850 given how infrequently I shoot above ISO640 and how frequently I shoot at base ISO. I thought the DR bump was small but perceptible in certain lighting, but I stand corrected.



Nov 28, 2017 at 10:54 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Sony A7R III Dynamic range at 14.7 Evs


Hey, I'm just happy the A7RIII isn't a step backwards from the -II which I found IN PRACTICE to be just slightly lower in perceived DR compared to my now ancient D800.
Still that's splitting hairs.



Nov 28, 2017 at 10:56 PM
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