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Archive 2017 · Higher ISO Body

  
 
TANG0F0XTR0T
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Higher ISO Body


I currently have a D810. I like the resolution and the camera. I sold my D750 for it but now I find the higher ISO and focus acquisition in lower light is a little more challenging. I'm looking for something that performs a little better in higher ISO and possibly as a 2nd camera body.

Even though I like the D850 I don't need 45mpx. I've been looking at the higher ISO comparisons and it isn't much better than the D810 so for the price it has me thinking of other alternatives.

The D5 is fairly expensive. I keep finding very expensive D4s's out there as well. They are so expensive I can almost see a used D5 being close enough in price that I would have to consider the D5.

What would you get to couple with my D810 for better high ISO? Would you wait, get a D750 as well (would serve as a 2nd camera for events) or a D5/D4s?



Nov 27, 2017 at 10:49 AM
nikonos6
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Higher ISO Body


I was in the sam boat and got a d750 to complement my d800.
It serves quite well for high Iso and af is also faster - of course you know.
If you need a solution now, maybe get another d750.
Otherwise, hopefully Nikon gives us a successor of that model next year,
including all the good things, like better viewfinder, faster AF, touchscreen, perhaps
the same button lights like in the d850 and of course touchscreen.
This combined with an even better sensor, perhaps with something between 28-32MP,
body size like d500, well - for me would be a dream-camera actually.
Maybe worth waiting or just getting what you need for now and then selling for half of the new
Camera then.



Nov 27, 2017 at 10:58 AM
sjms
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Higher ISO Body


used D4s


Nov 27, 2017 at 11:43 AM
rick2906
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Higher ISO Body


I second sjms. Used D4s, my friend got one pretty cheap! You just have to be alert.


Nov 27, 2017 at 11:57 AM
henry albert
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Higher ISO Body


Used D4 if you're shooting action. Cheaper than D4s and has the same output. D750 if you aren't. Best high ISO around and it has a flip up strobe for emergencies and easy fill.


Nov 27, 2017 at 12:01 PM
Frode
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Higher ISO Body




TANG0F0XTR0T wrote:
I currently have a D810. I like the resolution and the camera. I sold my D750 for it but now I find the higher ISO and focus acquisition in lower light is a little more challenging. I'm looking for something that performs a little better in higher ISO and possibly as a 2nd camera body.

Even though I like the D850 I don't need 45mpx. I've been looking at the higher ISO comparisons and it isn't much better than the D810 so for the price it has me thinking of other alternatives.

The D5 is fairly expensive. I keep finding very
...Show more

D810, fantastic camera in many ways. Not so regarding AF in dim light and high iso performance. Compared to the D4s.

D4 is cheaper than D4s, but if you want the best AF and high iso performance; D4s. No doubt.




Nov 27, 2017 at 12:20 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Higher ISO Body


The D4, D4S, and D850 are all very close to each other in ISO performance until you get into the extreme ISOs where the D4S starts to pull away by about a stop. The D4S is also measurably better than the D4 in that regard.

This chart might help you:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Nikon%20D4_14,Nikon%20D4S_14,Nikon%20D850_14

Here you can see that the D850 is pretty much indistinguishable from a D4S up to ISO 6400-12800 or so, and holds onto color better:

**DPR direct links seem to be broken - use the "new" studio comparison tool and you can see this.



Edited on Nov 27, 2017 at 12:41 PM · View previous versions



Nov 27, 2017 at 12:31 PM
OccAeon
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Higher ISO Body


I can't imagine the D750 helping here.

If you tend to be someone (like me) who under-exposes and then bumps the photo in post, the D850 is a good bit better than the D810 at higher ISOs, because you don't get the pink tint that the D810 gets when bumping exposure. But if you usually nail exposure, the D810 and the D850 are about the same as far as high-ISO performance.

Comparing the D750 to the D850, you get around 1/3 stop noise reduction with the D750, but you also lose a lot of detail, even looking at the scaled images. Personally, my main problem with noise is the loss of detail after noise removal anyway, so the D750 and D850 are about equivalent in my view. Plus the D850 is going to outperform the D750 on low-light focusing. To me, even if it actually provided a clear 1/3 stop advantage, it wouldn't be worth carrying the extra body anyway for that small of a difference.

The D4s is much the same, except you get about 2/3rds stop. But the AF probably won't be quite as good, and you'll still have less detail. So unless you want a D4S for other reasons, I'd go with the D850, personally. That's what I did (even though I, too, don't care that much about the extra MP).



Nov 27, 2017 at 12:34 PM
TANG0F0XTR0T
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Higher ISO Body


OccAeon wrote:
I can't imagine the D750 helping here.

If you tend to be someone (like me) who under-exposes and then bumps the photo in post, the D850 is a good bit better than the D810 at higher ISOs, because you don't get the pink tint that the D810 gets when bumping exposure. But if you usually nail exposure, the D810 and the D850 are about the same as far as high-ISO performance.

Comparing the D750 to the D850, you get around 1/3 stop noise reduction with the D750, but you also lose a lot of detail, even looking at the scaled
...Show more

I agree about the D750 but it does acquire focus more consistently and faster than the D810 in dim light. I have fast glass as well.

A D4s sounds good but at that price I wish it was closer to 20mpx at the prices they go for here in the UK. I can get a used D5 for the price of a new D850. D5 only has 40,000 clicks as well.

Decisions, decisions........


Edited on Nov 27, 2017 at 01:49 PM · View previous versions



Nov 27, 2017 at 01:37 PM
henry albert
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Higher ISO Body


CanadaMark wrote:
The D4, D4S, and D850 are all very close to each other in ISO performance until you get into the extreme ISOs where the D4S starts to pull away by about a stop. The D4S is also measurably better than the D4 in that regard.



Shoot raw in the field and the difference disappears.



Nov 27, 2017 at 01:38 PM
henry albert
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Higher ISO Body


Frode wrote:
D4 is cheaper than D4s, but if you want the best AF and high iso performance; D4s. No doubt.



Much doubt. The D4 AF can handle anything you throw at it. High ISO is the same if you shoot raw and have a good de-noiser.



Nov 27, 2017 at 01:42 PM
TANG0F0XTR0T
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Higher ISO Body


henry albert wrote:
Much doubt. The D4 AF can handle anything you throw at it. High ISO is the same if you shoot raw and have a good de-noiser.


How about focus acquisition in dim light? That is where I'm struggling with the D810. The D750 does better than the D810.

When you say de-noiser, what do you suggest?



Nov 27, 2017 at 01:53 PM
TANG0F0XTR0T
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Higher ISO Body


I think I'm beginning to wonder if the focus acquisition of a D850 will be enough to sway me. That is probably my main concern with the D810. I just hate to give up the body because I probably can't afford 2.


Nov 27, 2017 at 02:05 PM
david debalko
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Higher ISO Body


I'm thinking about purchasing this de-noiser - http://www.topazlabs.com/denoise


Nov 27, 2017 at 02:13 PM
la puffin
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Higher ISO Body




A D4s sounds good but at that price I wish it was closer to 20mpx at the prices they go for here in the UK. I can get a used D5 for the price of a new D850. D5 only has 40,000 clicks as well.

Decisions, decisions........


If you can get a used D5 with 40K on it for the price of a D850, then go for it. It'll give you the best high ISO performance and best AF performance in any light. That's what this camera is designed to do. The only downside is it's bigger and heavier, but built like a tank.



Nov 27, 2017 at 03:11 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Higher ISO Body


henry albert wrote:
Shoot raw in the field and the difference disappears.


RAW comparisons is where there is a measurable difference, looking at Bill Claff's numbers anyway. If you use DPreview's comparison tools, it's also easy to see the D4S has an edge with RAWs, particularly with the higher ISOs. Below ISO 12,800 or so they are closer. AF on the D4S was tweaked as well, and I would definitely try to get into a D4S over a D4 assuming cost wasn't vastly different if I wasn't going to buy a D850/D5. The D4 is an extremely capable body, obviously, but the D4S added some nice tweaks.



Nov 27, 2017 at 04:09 PM
charles.K
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Higher ISO Body


It will depend on your main focus for shooting. Often with portraits/events a fast lens with VR or image stabilization will give you 2 to 4 stops depending how dynamic the situation is and this alone will minimize the ISO needed and noise.

Of course if it is sport/fast action then the D4s or D5 are great work horses but it sounds like you were happy with the D750. The reason why I like the D750 for events is it is small, light and at they are a steal at the going used prices. This would buy time to see what is on the horizon for alternatives.



Nov 27, 2017 at 05:18 PM
jim atyeo
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Higher ISO Body


One more Nikon to consider is the D500. I have seen portraits done at ISO 25,600 that looked very good. Of course shot in raw with a perfect exposure. Slight amount of noise reduction added in post. Also you realize that by underexposing and raising exposure you are increasing noise by a substantial amount. To get better noise reduction, expose for the right on the histogram. Do not under expose if noise is an issue. I personally have taken portraits in low light at 16,000 with a Canon 7D MkII at a wedding and had great shots with little work in PP. I was stunned, since the Canon 7D MKII should not be in the league of my Nikon D810. I used a hand held meter, set it to what it said and the image looked perfect on the histogram and looked great on screen and as a print. You couldn't tell that it was shot at 16,000. I showed it to my photo class I teach and they guessed ISO 1600 or 3200. So careful technique can improve your results and the D500 is brilliant for anything moving and locking on focus


Nov 27, 2017 at 06:46 PM
TANG0F0XTR0T
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Higher ISO Body


Great responses. Many thanks.

I think what it comes down to now is quick and consistent focus acquisition. This is probably what I want most as the D810 hunts a bit in challenging lighting conditions.

Question is, can I get that from a D850? I can mostly from a D750. I can definitely on a D4s and from what I’ve read I can get that from the D850 as well.

I need to make a decision on whether I go for 2 bodies now and wait or just take the plunge.



Nov 27, 2017 at 07:02 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Higher ISO Body


TANG0F0XTR0T wrote:
Great responses. Many thanks.

I think what it comes down to now is quick and consistent focus acquisition. This is probably what I want most as the D810 hunts a bit in challenging lighting conditions.

Question is, can I get that from a D850? I can mostly from a D750. I can definitely on a D4s and from what I’ve read I can get that from the D850 as well.

I need to make a decision on whether I go for 2 bodies now and wait or just take the plunge.


The D850 has the same AF module and processing as the D5 and D500. There is much debate on the finer details of their AF performance, but they are the best you can get. All are better than the D4S, so the D850 will definitely deliver in that department. If challenging light is your primary concern, the AF in the D850 is twice as sensitive in the center and 50% more sensitive at all other points than the D4S. It also has a lot more cross type points. It's an easy decision if low light / low contrast situations are where you struggle most IMO - get something with the CAM20K AF in it.




Nov 27, 2017 at 07:08 PM
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