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Archive 2017 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking

  
 
leethecam
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


In 25+ years of trading I've never met with this issue before, but in the last 3 months I've had it happen twice.

The latest time was with a multi-billion ££ ship building company, where I was called by the assistant of the Vice President to take some headshots of him.

Their UK office is quite close to my studio, so he popped around for a short session and we talked about his company picking up the tab for retouching as well.

But after 2 months of being overdue (so + 1 month of credit I allow), I then find the oil company are disputing they are responsible for the (small) payment.

It seems an email request and confirmation from his assistant on his behalf, made from his office on the company email account and him being the Vice President also confirming payment from the company, and various senior members of the team apologising for late payment is not enough.

Now yes there are some that say I should have monies up front - but there enough of us who work in commercial sectors to know this is rarely possible. With corporate jobs I always need to invoice after the job is done.

But the issue here is that a company who seemingly booked me, (because it always comes down to a person making the booking), says they didn't and their staff member was acting without authority, (even though he's a Vice President - daft I know).

So the question goes to how to ensure a booking is really a booking on behalf of the company.

Getting an email or letter doesn't seem to make a difference, even getting a signature might be construed as an individual acting without authority.

How do others ensure that a booking is indeed "authorised" without making an undue fuss or sounding like you don't trust them?

I'm guessing that had this gone to court, it would have gone my way, (and in the UK, court for this would be an easy action). But it does make a person think again about trusting a booking when it is made.

(I got paid in the end - I forced their hand and got the Vice President to pay personally. They can fight it out amongst themselves... ha).



Nov 16, 2017 at 04:40 PM
Mikehit
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking



Most large companies now work on a Purchase Order system where you only get paid if the 'contract' is entered in the system and has a PO number attached to it, and that PO in turn has to be authorised by the Finance Dept. So I would say ask for a PO number - if he says you don't need one when you do that would be closer to a serious issue for him. If he gives a false number ditto.
Smaller companies you have to take it on trust. One thing we do is get the person requesting the services to confirm in writing that they are authorised to approve the services and the payment. We often find that asking them to put a statement in writing makes them think twice.



Nov 16, 2017 at 05:03 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


Yes I think that is the way to go with PO numbers.

I'd not thought about requesting confirmation of authorisation but that would be a good way to go. Tell me, do you use a form, or is it a simple matter of getting them to confirm by email or a reply to your email?



Nov 17, 2017 at 02:59 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


I have always sent an Estimate containing a description of the images to be shot, how many will be delivered and how they are authorized to be used. The payment terms vary from 50% due upon confirmation with the balance due within 30 days, 30 days from the time of shoot and edited images will be held until payment is received and payment due at the time of the shoot for small first time clients. The most important part of this is having paperwork in order, just in case.

Nearly three years ago, I had a two day shoot out of town for a large fast food company. The contact received, had two signatures on my Estimate but clearly did not read or follow through with my terms of a 50% retainer. After the proofs were delivered and they were pleased with the images, I resubmitted the invoice minus the 10% discount if paid in advance. The check arrived within a week and it cost them +$1K because of someones mistake. Not huge money to them but it is to most of us. Their Licensing Agreement expires in a few months and I think the odds are good that they will renew.



Nov 17, 2017 at 10:00 AM
obscure
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


leethecam wrote:
Yes I think that is the way to go with PO numbers.

I'd not thought about requesting confirmation of authorisation but that would be a good way to go.

What is to stop the company saying "he wasn't authorised to issue a PO number"?

The fact is that POs are just an internal tracking system that some companies use. They don't mean anything more than the emails and other written details that you already have.

Under UK law if someone that a normal person would reasonably believe to have the authority to bind a company in a contract (such as a VP or Director) does so, it is binding. If they didn't actually have the authority that is the company's tough luck. You almost certainly have enough emails etc to convince a court that a legally binding contract exists. The company have to pay you.

If you have already invoiced and they are refusing to pay you should send a letter before action https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim. If they don't pay following that you can start proceedings to recover the money (sue them).



Dec 04, 2017 at 07:44 AM
leethecam
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


obscure wrote:
What is to stop the company saying "he wasn't authorised to issue a PO number"?

The fact is that POs are just an internal tracking system that some companies use. They don't mean anything more than the emails and other written details that you already have.

Under UK law if someone that a normal person would reasonably believe to have the authority to bind a company in a contract (such as a VP or Director) does so, it is binding. If they didn't actually have the authority that is the company's tough luck. You almost certainly have enough emails etc to convince
...Show more

That indeed is exactly what I said to them, in that the booking was made through his secretary, from his company phone line and he is a Vice President. So any court would take it that he was authorised to make a booking - particularly at such a small financial level.

Me insisting that I'd take court action, them challenging me to do so, and then me phoning the personal number of said Vice President got me my money. Ridiculous to go through such a major amount of work to recover £300



Dec 04, 2017 at 12:48 PM
mogud
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


leethecam wrote:
That indeed is exactly what I said to them, in that the booking was made through his secretary, from his company phone line and he is a Vice President. So any court would take it that he was authorised to make a booking - particularly at such a small financial level.

Me insisting that I'd take court action, them challenging me to do so, and then me phoning the personal number of said Vice President got me my money. Ridiculous to go through such a major amount of work to recover £300


Sorry but the assisstant does not have signing authority. The VP does. If you decide to go to court, the court will find in favour of the company. Chalk this experience up to a teaching moment. Further,confirmations by email don't cut it. Acceptance letters signed and on Company letter-head are binding.

In your standard contract, you should include in your T&C, that a returned letter confirming acceptance by a company official authorizied to bind the company should be requested. In addition, a deposit should be required. Once the acceptance letter is received long with the deposit, you now have a binding contract. If the client does not pay and you sue, the courts will find in your favour. Sorry for the bad news.



Dec 04, 2017 at 06:44 PM
Mikehit
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


mogud wrote:
Sorry but the assisstant does not have signing authority. The VP does.

How do you know that? Is that global or US only?

mogud wrote:
If you decide to go to court, the court will find in favour of the company.

Can you show any reference to support that? If it can be reasonably assumed the person was acting as an agent for the company it is highly likely in UK that the court would find in favour of the photographer

mogud wrote:
Chalk this experience up to a teaching moment. Further,confirmations by email don't cut it. Acceptance letters signed and on Company letter-head are binding.

Yes, acceptance on letterhead helps but emails are also accepted - our global company accepts email confirmation and so do many others. So can you explain how you come to your conclusion?

Are you a corporate lawyer and is your advice specific to your country? I don't intend to be abrasive, I just want to make sure your frame of reference is clear




Dec 05, 2017 at 03:07 AM
mogud
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


Mikehit wrote:
How do you know that? Is that global or US only?

Can you show any reference to support that? If it can be reasonably assumed the person was acting as an agent for the company it is highly likely in UK that the court would find in favour of the photographer

Yes, acceptance on letterhead helps but emails are also accepted - our global company accepts email confirmation and so do many others. So can you explain how you come to your conclusion?

Are you a corporate lawyer and is your advice specific to your country? I don't intend to be abrasive, I
...Show more

I'm no lawyer just someone who has worked in the corporate enviroment for more than 30 years. My advice is not specific to any country but just common business practise. I'm offering friendly advice. Taking my advice is up to you. I work in Canada.

Regarding the assistant. If the Company is balking at paying, then possibly, the secretary doesn't have signing authority and can't bind the company.

Email confirmation might be ok but, written confirmation on letterhead might be more iron clad. Speak to a lawyer and determine if email confirmation is fine. As I mentioned, going through the legal hassel to find out that emails didn't cut it can be expensive.

I don't have any specific reference regarding outcomes in a court case. How could I. But, if a contract is entered into and both sides don't do what they agreed to then, fight it out in court.






Dec 05, 2017 at 07:43 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


Thank you for replying.
I agree with you about the contract being the ideal way to go, but sometimes that just is not possible before the start date of the work and that is where it all gets a bit tricky to say the least. Unfortunately as a contractor you often don't know who has the real authority to sign off on a new job and you are relying on trust - in our line of work the legal team are brought in quite quickly so it is agreed up front who has that authority, but sometimes with smaller contracts that does not happen.
I don't know about North America but here in UK an email can be considered an agreement of contract if it can be reasonably assumed the person had the authority and an email works for financial reporting to the FSC in US for recognition of agreed work - if it is good enough for them it is good enough for me even if we do accept there is always a level of risk



Dec 05, 2017 at 10:14 AM
leethecam
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


mogud wrote:
Sorry but the assisstant does not have signing authority. The VP does. If you decide to go to court, the court will find in favour of the company. Chalk this experience up to a teaching moment. Further,confirmations by email don't cut it. Acceptance letters signed and on Company letter-head are binding.

In your standard contract, you should include in your T&C, that a returned letter confirming acceptance by a company official authorizied to bind the company should be requested. In addition, a deposit should be required. Once the acceptance letter is received long with the deposit, you now have a
...Show more

Unless of course the assistant is acting with the authority of the VP. Courts weigh heavily on good faith and the business world would stop turning if the top brass had to personally sign everything off even when they'd asked a staff member to act on their behalf. If what you say is true, then no one would ever book anything - even a cab. At some point there has to be an assumtion of good faith and this would be a clear example of such.

Now, if the assistant had taken it upon themselves to book a session and then persuade the VP to go and have his pics taken, then that would be a different thing.

Acting with authorisation is just that... acting with authority.



Dec 05, 2017 at 12:37 PM
mogud
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


leethecam wrote:
Unless of course the assistant is acting with the authority of the VP. Courts weigh heavily on good faith and the business world would stop turning if the top brass had to personally sign everything off even when they'd asked a staff member to act on their behalf. If what you say is true, then no one would ever book anything - even a cab. At some point there has to be an assumtion of good faith and this would be a clear example of such.

Now, if the assistant had taken it upon themselves to book a session and then
...Show more

Sorry to read that you are having difficulty getting paid. My comment was to provide some insights, from my experiences and working in the corporate world for a number of years, why you might not be getting paid....YMMV. Hope things work out.



Dec 05, 2017 at 02:13 PM
voidsherpa
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


25+ years and this is the first time to happen and you still got paid? Change nothing and forget about it. I also work a net 30.


Dec 05, 2017 at 03:12 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


mogud wrote:
Sorry to read that you are having difficulty getting paid. My comment was to provide some insights, from my experiences and working in the corporate world for a number of years, why you might not be getting paid....YMMV. Hope things work out.


Always glad to hear different insights and thoughts so thank you. I did get paid. I once remarked to someone, "no one escapes..." and for 20+ years that has been 100% true - even if they'd tried... (girlfriend included. )



Dec 05, 2017 at 03:56 PM
obscure
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


mogud wrote:
I'm no lawyer just someone who has worked in the corporate enviroment for more than 30 years. My advice is not specific to any country but just common business practise. I'm offering friendly advice. Taking my advice is up to you. I work in Canada.

Regarding the assistant. If the Company is balking at paying, then possibly, the secretary doesn't have signing authority and can't bind the company.

Unfortunately your advise is wrong. The law is clear. If a person holds themselves out as authorised to enter into a contract (such as a secretary contacting on behalf of a VP) then the contract is binding and the company has to pay. They can of course discipline the employee or even sue them to recover any loss/damage, but that is between the company and the employee.



Dec 05, 2017 at 10:33 PM
mogud
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


I've added my two cents and I'll leave it at that.


Dec 05, 2017 at 10:42 PM
sungphoto
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Getting absolute confirmation of a booking


This would seem like a pretty good reason to change your contract/deposit approach and require a 50% non-refundable retainer.

Sometimes that's not realistic with large corporate clients that you're trying to woo, but I had a similar run of 3-4 clients cancelling last minute one week in September, after which I've stopped going by the honors system to hold dates for individual clients. For my advertising/commercial gigs, that's not so realistic but you do what you can right?



Feb 13, 2018 at 11:54 PM





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