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Archive 2017 · 5D3 vs 5DsR

  
 
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


gdanmitchell wrote:
Before I decided on the 5DsR over the 5Ds, I got my hands on raw files from both and made test prints equivalent to rather large print sizes — up to 60" x 90"! In the end, this is what it looked like to me:

- the 5DsR raw files have an initial edge in resolution over the 5Ds.

- the different raw file characteristics call for different approaches to sharpening in post-production.

- after applying optimized sharpening to the two cameras' files, the differences in images at the end of post-processing are so tiny as to be insignificant.

- the
...Show more

At risk of derailing the discussion or offending you - which is not intended

Not saying your facts are wrong but.

Your conclusion is contrary to your facts. If it does not make any difference and 5ds has less risk of moire that support 5ds over 5dsr - where you concluded it does not matter so go 5dsr.

The only data I have seen suggests 5dsr is better than 5ds. Eg if you look at mpx exquivalent d800 (with aa) vs d800e (no aa) on dxomark (presumably unsharpened) the d800e has significantly more resolution. Now it may be because its false resolution (eg the atifacts cause the equivalent of sharpening in 5dsr) or that 5dsr and 5ds have the same sharpening and 5ds requires more. But presuming they knew what they were doing the 5dsr outresolves the 5ds. And anecdotally If you have to sharpen more that means you are having to add more sharpening to overcome the difference in resolution.After all you can increase the sharpening of 5dsr too.

The good news is that its close enough that either are a good choice. My advice is that if you shooting lots of stuff (products, sweaters etc) that is proine to moire - get the 5ds. Otherwise get the 5dsr.



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:03 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


Until recently, I had decided to get the 5DSR, although my first instinct was (on their release) the 5DS. I say until recently, because I picked up a new 5DS for half price, a couple of weeks ago.

Also recently, a friend of mine showed me some of his comparison images of 5DS vs 5DSR (same lens, same subject, same time). In some parts of an image, one was best, while in other parts of the image, the other was better. Of course, "better" is relatively speaking, and the differences are very, very small.

For me, going from 20MP to 50 MP for landscapes is as awesome as I'd hoped, and so the distinction between S and R is moot. It'll wreak havoc on my lens collection, though.



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:14 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


^^^

I don't encounter moire with the 5DsR, and I did a rather large project photographing musicians where fabric issues would have shown up. Not saying that isn't possible, and for those who are concerned, one take-away from my post is that you can get the 5Ds, get very similar final output results at the end of your workflow, and lower your concerns about moire. Though I've also gotten moire artifacts using cameras that do include AA filtering...

I tend to agree that that 5DsR is "better" than the 5Ds when it comes to resolution. But I also believe that the difference is so insignificant that it will likely never have a visible impact on even rather large prints. Basically, I'm saying that at the end of workflows tailored to files from the two cameras, any difference in sharpness of the output is so tiny as to be insignificant. Both cameras produce extremely high resolution output.

You could go two directions what that observation — assuming that you accept it:

1. Since the two cameras' final output is so similar — and assuming you don't worry about the moire issue – you might as well join the crowd and go with a camera that foregoes anti-aliasing. (Yes, I didn't say "has no anti-aliasing filter," for reasons you probably know about.) Current high resolution camera systems now almost universally are produced without AA filtering (Sony, Canon, Nikon, most or all miniMF and other digital MF systems), so it seems that the concerns are fading.

or...

2. Since the AA-filtering 5Ds produces image quality essentially indistinguishable from that of the 5DsR (unless you go full test bench to look for it!), any photographer uncomfortable with giving up AA-filtering should get it and not worry about output sharpness.

On all counts, that seems like good news, right? And it doesn't really disagree substantially with your conclusions. In fact, it might be that we vehemently agree for the most part! ;-)

Dan

Dan



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:19 PM
dreamlander
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5D3 vs 5DsR




Scott Stoness wrote:
I agree but I would say 5dsr is hands down winner for me - not 5ds - the moire issue has not effected me. And I think the 5dsr has more resolution - not as much as reported but more.

On the file size - the issue is not just cf /sd cards - working on a 51mpx raw file turns into 300mbyte tiff files. Working on 22mpx file turns into 150mbyte files. The 51mpx take about 3x as long to turn into tiff's from raw and that's with a solid computer. So if you have newish souped up computer
...Show more

I run a 6 year old computer with 6 gigs of ram and editing in Capture One is no issue for me. I don't do any layering in photoshop or anything, so maybe that would be an issue. Export probably takes longer, but I can do other things during export.
So for me, file size has not been something I have thought about at all. If you want 50mp, I wouldn't worry about it.



Nov 16, 2017 at 12:33 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


dreamlander wrote:
I run a 6 year old computer with 6 gigs of ram and editing in Capture One is no issue for me. I don't do any layering in photoshop or anything, so maybe that would be an issue. Export probably takes longer, but I can do other things during export.
So for me, file size has not been something I have thought about at all. If you want 50mp, I wouldn't worry about it.





Nov 16, 2017 at 01:55 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


dreamlander wrote:
I run a 6 year old computer with 6 gigs of ram and editing in Capture One is no issue for me. I don't do any layering in photoshop or anything, so maybe that would be an issue. Export probably takes longer, but I can do other things during export.
So for me, file size has not been something I have thought about at all. If you want 50mp, I wouldn't worry about it.


I have 8 cores/32GB/10TB/120gbssd with operating system--- and the 51mpx files are frustrating as compared to 22MPx.

They take ~3x as long to convert a raw to tiff. A considerable part of my frustration is just do to my purpose (landscape) and my workflow (choose last as opposed to choosing first what is my 3 shots that day that are worth working on). But you don't have to make this choice at 22mpx.

It takes ~3x as long for the tiff to be created.
It takes ~3x as long to do an hdr
It takes ~3x as long just to view a picture
The Tiff files are at least 2x as big (300mb vs 125mb)

If you are only working on 3 pictures - not a big deal but if you want to batch process, and then import and then decide which ones to blend and work on - it is a big deal.

Edited on Nov 16, 2017 at 02:47 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2017 at 01:55 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I edit 51MP 5DsR raw files on my "mid-2011" 27" 3.4 i7 iMac with 12GB ram. While it isn't as fast as the newest machines, it still works fast enough. (I think I may get another year out of it.) Note that this was the best equipped version of that computer when I got it.

On the other hand, my little MacBook Air of the same vintage (less powerful to start out) now is pretty slow with Photoshop files. Fortunately, I only have to use it occasionally for that purpose.

(Another interesting note, though not directly related. We run the Mac OS Server app as a central file server and for other purposes. It is running on a 2007 iMac. We encountered the first problem only very recently when Apple no longer makes current system and application upgrades compatible. It still works fine, but we cannot update to the newest OS version or Server version. We are probably going to replace it with a "headless" low-end Mac mini soon. However, after ten years of use, I think we got our money's worth out of that current iMac!)

Dan



Nov 16, 2017 at 02:06 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


gdanmitchell wrote:
I edit 51MP 5DsR raw files on my "mid-2011" 27" 3.4 i7 iMac with 12GB ram. While it isn't as fast as the newest machines, it still works fast enough...


Same here (i7 ASUS 3.4 GHz), but it's getting better as it ages. I just replaced the system and workspace drives with 500 GB SSD, and went from 16 GB to 32 GB RAM. My next and probably last upgrade for this computer is replacing my GTX 560 video adapter (1GB, 336 CUDA cores) with a GTX 1060 (6GB, 1280 cores).

50 MP is just getting warmed up. Bring it !



Nov 16, 2017 at 02:19 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


jcolwell wrote:
Same here (i7 ASUS 3.4 GHz), but it's getting better as it ages. I just replaced the system and workspace drives with 500 GB SSD, and went from 16 GB to 32 GB RAM. My next and probably last upgrade for this computer is replacing my GTX 560 video adapter (1GB, 336 CUDA cores) with a GTX 1060 (6GB, 1280 cores).

50 MP is just getting warmed up. Bring it !


It may have been the best — and certainly among the best — of the many Mac purchases I have made over the years. It already has SSD, and I could increase its capacity. It has thunderbolt, so the connection to my primary external drive is very fast. As long as I can continue to keep the OS up to date, there is a good chance that I'll keep using it — possibly adding additional memory and perhaps installing a large capacity SSD.

A well-equipped iMac really is a fine photography editing machine.

Dan



Nov 16, 2017 at 03:21 PM
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