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Archive 2017 · 5D3 vs 5DsR

  
 
PatrickSweeney
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


Ok, a few questions. People have mentioned that the S is unforgiving, and you need to have good habits. Does this mean more than the usual inverse lens length as shutter speed?

Also, how does the S compare to the 3 in higher ISO’s? I’ve happily shot up to 6400 with the 3. Does the S hold up?

And any complaints with the S on battery life?



Nov 12, 2017 at 08:18 PM
dolina
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I own a 5DsR since day 1.

If you dont need 50MP then I'd skip it.



Nov 12, 2017 at 08:22 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I have the 5dsr. I have the 5d3 too but have not used it since I got the 5dsr.

Relative to unforgiving - if you take the same picture and print it at the same size all else equal - 5dsr is not less unforgiving than 5d3. Its just that it resolves enough that you would notice if your lens technique was not good vs not noticing it as much on 5d3. On the 5d3, good lens out-resolve the sensor. On the 5dsr - the sensor can out resolve your lens. Thats a good problem - equal if your lens or technique is not stellar. 5dsr being better where technique/lens is good.

The usual 1/mm of lens still works but think of 5dsr enables much more cropping. In my tests the 5dsr cropped does better than the 7dii at the same distance and has made my 7dii obsolete. But if you are cropping the 1/mm should be changed to 1/(mm* 1.6).

The iso performance is better than 5d3 but not lots better. I shoot up to Iso6400.

The battery life is about 20% reduced.

I would say - when comparing 5d3 vs 5dsr - I would make choices based on:
1) Files are way bigger with 5dsr and it takes way longer to process - so if you don't want to print big and incur the need for a better computer with more storage - don't do it
2) You can print way bigger with 5dsr than 5d3, with equivalent quality
3) But if you don't have great lens, or good technique you are unlikely to see the difference

I love the 5dsr. I am focussed on landscape and big mostly still animals. For these purposes - it is stellar. In my view the best camera on the market for these purposes.




Nov 12, 2017 at 08:32 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


From what I have seen, the 5D3 is better at high ISO, and it is only when you resize the 5DS shot down, then they become a bit closer, but it still seems like the edge goes to the 5D3.


Nov 12, 2017 at 08:49 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


5DsR rendered 5D3 obsolete. IQ is massively better not just in detail, but it has less shadow noise and no banding, probably has 1 stop better shadow pushability, high ISO noise is as good when equalised but shows better detail at least to ISO 6400 (btw use DxO PRIME for high ISO noise reduction not ACR/DPP), AF is IMO better due to the extra processing power of the dual digic 6, it has several missing features only found on 1DX, WTF didn't 5D3 get the same improvements!!!!!!!!. Only negatives buffer fills fast and screen previews take longer.

Make sure to use DPP + DLO to get maximum benefit of the 5DsR's sensor resolution especially for landscape. I was shocked how much better it was than ACR.



Nov 12, 2017 at 09:52 PM
Tapeman
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I have found the ISO to be good at the higher end. The cropping ability is a bonus.


Nov 12, 2017 at 10:45 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


If you will produce prints at the same size, there is no downside to using the higher MP camera. This is a very common misconception. There will be equal amounts of motion blur in images from both cameras — except in cases where you control motion better and the 5DsR will be sharper.

Of course, if you aren't attending to camera stability and other motion-related sharpness issues, the potential advantages of the higher MP sensor may not be of much use to you. If you print large and tend to be very careful about things like using a tripod, etc... the 5DsR is a fine option. If not, you may not fine that it has any real advantages.



Nov 12, 2017 at 10:52 PM
dtolios
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


ISO: Apples to apples - i.e. normalized to the same MP on screen or printed to the same size, the 5DS(R) will yield the same or BETTER results, every time, practically ever ISO setting.

Judging at 100% pixel magnification, of course, will yield unfavorable results for the 5DS(R) in very high ISOs. In "reality" - i.e. application specific output, not pixel peeping, the cameras are comparable in ISO and the 5DS(R) can get VERY notably more detail REGARDLESS of situation. If your reason to get a camera other than the 5D3 is performance at really high ISOs, the 5DS(R) is not better or worse. I would look into a used 1DX if that is the priority.

Camera shake: What you hear is again, taken out of context or not compared apples to apples. Under NO circumstance I can see ANYONE getting an image that is "tack sharp" with the 5D3 or any other DSLR, and will look shaken / muddy with the 5DS(R) at the same output size. NO WAY. Again, people are pixel peeping at 100% magnification, which is apples to oranges when talking a low 20s MP sensor and a 50MP sensor - or the equivalent 40+ MP sensors Sony produces.

Sure, you cannot extract 100% of the potential of a 36, 42 or 50MP sensor handholding it at slow shutter speeds, and this is why good IS/IBIS or whatever is available is preferable at all circumstances and a tripod is unbeatable - amd not having the horrendous shutter shock the original A7R had helps. But at the end is like comparing cars in extreme traction limited scenarios: sure, a Civic Type R might not be any faster than a vanilla Civic on ice with all-season tires, but that's it. We can engineer lots of scenarios where more BHP or more MP mean nothing, BUT, lets not lose any contact with reality.

IN PRACTICE, and for NORMALIZED output sizes, there is no real drawback from high-MP sensors as far as IQ goes. Camera shake is NOT more noticeable, high ISO performance is not notably worse. What was borderline shaken will be the same, what was borderline noisy will look the same. But when you do shoot your average image, there will be notably more detail EVERY time at EVERY ISO, and when the stars align (or you just use proper setup/tripod etc) the detail is simply in another class. And this is true regardless from lens used: you will get more detail even with meh glass, only the differences are more impressive with good glass, good camera stability (either with a tripod or OS/IS) etc, or some artificial lighting. Yes, adding flash improves perceived sharpness lots (especially if the flash exposure adds up to it being the primary light source, but even as a fill it really matters).

I did not have a 5D3, but I did have the 6D which is arguably better in all ISOs as far as "per pixel sharpness", high ISO performance and DR, and I have no complaints from the 5DSR other than the stupendously larger files - at least for layered editing. If you are just using LR with them, the situation is not that bad really, at least not with a relatively current PC. But load them into PS and add just a couple of layers / layer masks and the PSD file size is just stupendous. Waiting for things to save and open is painful even if you are using SSD as a working drive, and long term storage HDDs fill up FAST.




Nov 13, 2017 at 12:21 PM
splathrop
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


Three best reasons for 5DsR over 5D III:

1. Bigger prints

2. More cropping ability

3. Empowering your lens collection

Higher resolution has implications for all, and for your questions.

First, the customary lens-length/shutter-speed ratio. For all three reasons, you need to re-think previous usage. Even doubling your shutter speed standards for hand-held use may not always be enough. For instance, with my 5D III shooting flying birds for cropping and enlargement, 1/1600 usually made me confident. With the 5DsR I'm not really confident until I get to 1/4000. Doesn't mean I don't often get good results at slower shutter speeds. Just that to be nearly certain, 1/4000 is what I seem to need. Which in a way is a notable limitation, because where I live only unusual lighting conditions permit that speed below ISO 640 (which still makes very nice images, but I'm greedy).

A related topic is subject motion. Once again, keeping the 3 objectives in mind, higher shutter speeds will be needed. I had plenty of previous practice with moving water, waves, etc., and learned which shutter speeds with which water conditions would get me the look I prefer. When I switched up to the 5DsR I tried upping the shutter speeds I used times 1.5. Not enough. For equivalent looks at full resolution I had to at least double the speeds.

High ISO is no problem, at least for me up to ISO 6400. Just to try it, I experimented with shooting HS basketball at that ISO, using the only the Canon 35mm f/1.4 II. After cropping, the resolution of the camera turned that lens almost into a mild telephoto! It made framing easy. It gave the images broader context. And image quality was excellent at f/2.0. Stuff like that is what I mean by empowering your lens collection. It's also a lot of fun to shoot flocks of small birds in flight with a 5DsR and a 35mm, and then marvel at the resolution you get with each bird.

More on that subject. Experiment suggests to me that the 5DsR plus the 100-400 II are Canon's most cost-effective combination for birds—flying or perched. The best shots you get won't give up much compared to the guys with the super-telephotos, unless they too mount them on the 5DsR. You might end up wanting to do that yourself. I do, but I'm usually so happy with what I already get from the 100-400 II that I'm in no rush.

As others have noted, if you aren't trying to crop more or print larger, little of what I said matters. You may find you need more computer power. Battery life is less. I now try to bring 4 charged batteries everywhere, but usually get by using only 2 of them.



Nov 13, 2017 at 05:02 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


Higher shutter speeds are NOT required if you are going to display your files the same size as you did with other bodies, because the amount of blur physically covers the same distance no matter the resolution of the sensor. If blur occurs across 1mm of sensor, the same enlargement of a 20Mpx vs a 50Mpx will show the same blur. In other words a 16x20 print from a 5D3 21Mpx vs a 5DS 50Mpx will show the same blur in the image. You won't have more blur with the 5DS, there is simply no reason for it.

The absolutely only times you care about increased shutter speeds are if a) you are cropping more with the 50Mpx sensor over the other FF lesser resolution sensors, and b) if you are pixel peeping your images, thus enlarging them to much larger sizes than with lower res FF sensors.



Nov 13, 2017 at 05:33 PM
fplstudio
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I have used for years a 6D and now use a 5dsR.

Below a list of pros/cons based on my personal experience
+
1) cropping ability
2) significantly sharper
3) significant better IQ
4) WiFi with optional module (not possible with 5diii)
5) better AF (marginal if compared to 5diii)
6) print large

-
1) significant larger files slowing down you editing + storage issue
2) max native ISO 6400
3) higher selling price
4) marginal higher SS required for handheld shots



Nov 13, 2017 at 09:36 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


To repeat, you will not see any more motion blur, focus issues, or similar things related to sharpness on a 5DsR than on a lower resolution camera. If you make 20 x 30 prints from both, you will have precisely the same amount of blur, assuming you shoot the two cameras the same way.

If you get the higher resolution camera because you plan to make bigger prints than you ever made before and you are extremely careful about all issues related to sharp images your higher MP camera may support larger print sizes.

Folks really need to stop implying, accidentally or on purpose, that using a higher MP camera requires you to use higher shutter speeds or different apertures. Making larger prints might require those things, but using a higher resolution camera does not.

Dan

splathrop wrote:
Three best reasons for 5DsR over 5D III:

1. Bigger prints

2. More cropping ability

3. Empowering your lens collection

Higher resolution has implications for all, and for your questions.

First, the customary lens-length/shutter-speed ratio. For all three reasons, you need to re-think previous usage. Even doubling your shutter speed standards for hand-held use may not always be enough. For instance, with my 5D III shooting flying birds for cropping and enlargement, 1/1600 usually made me confident. With the 5DsR I'm not really confident until I get to 1/4000. Doesn't mean I don't often get good results at slower shutter speeds. Just that to
...Show more



Nov 14, 2017 at 12:16 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


In the famous words of my relatives down south... Yup!

A quick graphic to show the guideline as I see it. Sensor resolution isn't in the list as a primary culprit for larger blur.




Edited on Nov 14, 2017 at 10:41 AM · View previous versions



Nov 14, 2017 at 08:15 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I would NEVER buy a 5D3 over a 5Ds (yes, I owned a 5D3 for years, have had the 5Ds for years), even if I was only printing small. As outlined above, the 5Ds has way cleaner shadows (no banding) and maybe +1 stop better high ISO if printed at equal sizes.

Shoot mRAW if you don't want the file size, or consider a 5D4.



Nov 14, 2017 at 09:46 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


I do not see any advantage at high ISO for the 5DS. At best, at the same print sizes, they are equal to each other, per the DPReview studio comparison tool. Perhaps they did something wrong with their samples?

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison - set high ISO and use the Print comparison option...

Digital Picture says this in their review to confirm what I am seeing from DPReview.


When compared at native resolutions, 5Ds images are noisier than 5D III images. The differences, especially at higher ISO settings, are less than 1 stop. Down-sized to 5D III pixel dimension (using DPP, see "Standard Down-Sized to 5D III" in noise tool), 5Ds noise levels are essentially equal to full frame 5D III noise levels and even slightly better at the highest ISO settings. So, while Canon is not promoting this camera for its low light capabilities, I see it as one of the best options available with output size being comparable.



Nov 14, 2017 at 12:16 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


TeamSpeed wrote:
I do not see any advantage at high ISO for the 5DS. At best, at the same print sizes, they are equal to each other, per the DPReview studio comparison tool. Perhaps they did something wrong with their samples?

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison - set high ISO and use the Print comparison option...

Digital Picture says this in their review to confirm what I am seeing from DPReview.



dxo shows them being pretty much equal with 5dsr doing better at lower iso's
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5DS-R-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___1009_795



Nov 14, 2017 at 03:03 PM
dreamlander
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


5Ds hands down. The 5D3 only has one advantage and that is one more frame per second, which is meaningless to me.
5Ds is superior in every other way. A used 5Ds is a great value right now going for around $2k.
The file size is a non issue. 128 gig cards and 2 terabyte hd's for $80. Unless you are a sports shooter, but then this obviously is not the camera for you.



Nov 15, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


dreamlander wrote:
5Ds hands down. The 5D3 only has one advantage and that is one more frame per second, which is meaningless to me.
5Ds is superior in every other way. A used 5Ds is a great value right now going for around $2k.
The file size is a non issue. 128 gig cards and 2 terabyte hd's for $80. Unless you are a sports shooter, but then this obviously is not the camera for you.



I agree but I would say 5dsr is hands down winner for me - not 5ds - the moire issue has not effected me. And I think the 5dsr has more resolution - not as much as reported but more.

On the file size - the issue is not just cf /sd cards - working on a 51mpx raw file turns into 300mbyte tiff files. Working on 22mpx file turns into 150mbyte files. The 51mpx take about 3x as long to turn into tiff's from raw and that's with a solid computer. So if you have newish souped up computer expect processing to take 2-3 times as long and if you have an old computer expect to have to upgrade.



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:38 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


Scott Stoness wrote:
...5dsr is hands down winner for me - not 5ds - the moire issue has not effected me. And I think the 5dsr has more resolution - not as much as reported but more.


Before I decided on the 5DsR over the 5Ds, I got my hands on raw files from both and made test prints equivalent to rather large print sizes — up to 60" x 90"! In the end, this is what it looked like to me:

- the 5DsR raw files have an initial edge in resolution over the 5Ds.

- the different raw file characteristics call for different approaches to sharpening in post-production.

- after applying optimized sharpening to the two cameras' files, the differences in images at the end of post-processing are so tiny as to be insignificant.

- the moire issue is also generally insignificant. I worked with5DsR files (test targets, etc) that should have shown it, but it just wasn't a big issue, and in the places where it occurred there were ways to deal with it in post. In addition, I knew from personal experience that moire can appear in some of the test cases in files from cameras with AA filters! (No wonder the trend has been, almost without exception, for camera companies to move away from AA-filtering.)

In the end, I found little if any difference in the quality of large-format output from the 5Ds and the 5DsR, and both can produce very high resolution prints at quite large sizes. With that in mind, I couldn't think of a good reason to stick with AA-filtering on my camera.

As to the question of what is "better" — 5DsR or some other camera — that often comes down more to one's personal needs and preferences than to any objective overall ranking. One person will have good reasons for preferring a 5DsR, while another person will have equally good reasons for preferring a 5DIV... or even some other brand/model! The most important thing, after understanding the features and characteristics of the cameras, is understanding their importance in the context of your own photography.

Dan



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:51 PM
StarNut
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5D3 vs 5DsR


PatrickSweeney wrote:
Ok, a few questions. People have mentioned that the S is unforgiving, and you need to have good habits. Does this mean more than the usual inverse lens length as shutter speed?

Also, how does the S compare to the 3 in higher ISO’s? I’ve happily shot up to 6400 with the 3. Does the S hold up?

And any complaints with the S on battery life?


I have had a 5D3 since they were first released, and I have had a 5DSr for almost a year.

I have not experienced any issues with needing extra-good technique to get good results with the 5DSr; it's an amazingly sharp camera, even hand-held at 700mm of focal length.

My sense is that the 5DSr is not as clean at high-ISO as the 5D3.

They both have amazing battery life.

I use the 5DSr most of the time. When I know that I don't care about the extra resolution of the 5DSr, or when I need higher frame rate (remember, the 5DSr fills up its buffer more quickly than the 5D3, so it has a much slower effective frame rate), I use the 5D3.

I disagree with the assertion that the larger files are irrelevant. The files on the 5dSr are about twice the size of files on the 5D3; that fills cards more quickly (requiring more expensive cards for the same task), fills hard drives more quickly, and slows Lightroom to a crawl.

Mark



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:17 PM
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