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Archive 2017 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?

  
 
R.H. Johnson
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


TANG0F0XTR0T, I feel like buying my own printer and practicing with it and getting the output I like. that is exact what i did 11 years ago. i purchased an ipf5000 on Canon's 1st run at large format printers. the idea was to learn how to print large format. i quickly found out it was a huge learning curve. large format is not desk top printing. all the ink and paper i if only i could have that money back. lol to this very day i still have my Sony Trinitron flat screen CRT monitor i've forgot the dot pitch of that beast. at the time it was equivalent of today's EIZO ColorEdge flat panel monitor. back in the day that Trinitron was the closes thing to true color on screen manually calibrated. it was my magic bullet. it allowed me to develop the techniques to print with a good degree of color accuracy consistently.

i've only been printing large format for eleven years. but i got lucky with one print color matched on screen. the arrogance. when that Pro 4000 arrive and was uncrated and set up bought on line. one was able to start printing immediately with color accuracy in every print. it wasn't luck. it was 11 years of accumulated knowledge and hands on experience large format printing that made it so. luck my ass. never judge a book by its' cover for you know not the information contain therein. that is not intended for you TFT. the guilty party knows whom i am speaking to.



Edited on Nov 13, 2017 at 11:32 AM · View previous versions



Nov 13, 2017 at 11:11 AM
butchM
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


TANG0F0XTR0T wrote:
As to the comment, why bother, that is exactly my question. It all seems far too overcomplicated. I think I'm answering my own question now.



It is only as complicated as you allow it to become. Understanding and implementing color management is no different than understanding the need for proper exposure, sharp focus and proper composition. It's just part of a solid digital imaging workflow.



Nov 13, 2017 at 11:21 AM
Peter Figen
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


"really, i do very little work in PS unless i need local sharpening etc. to prep for large format printing. i have found that some of my work that has been cropped just does not have the pixel density for large prints. i want the 50MP to help resolve that problem. but i will wait to see what the 5DsR MKII has to offer. if you're writing your own profiles and that good at it hmmm. it is a given that images need to be tweaked for print."

Well I jumped on a couple of 5DSRs as soon as they became available and never regretted it. 50mp is great but if you're having to do such deep crops that you don't have enough pixels, maybe you're not using the right lens for the job. Or you could go do a 100 mp Phase or Hassy - y'know, just for kicks.

And yes, I have been making my own custom profiles since the late 90's - using the venerable Gretag Spectroscan T, first with Praxisoft Compass Profile, then with many generations of Gretag's ProfileMaker Professional and more recently with i1Profiler Pro. Ironically, ProfileMaker still offers better color separation, total ink and black generation control for CMYK press output than Profiler but for RGB profiles Profiler is hard to beat. And when you need to edit profiles then you're back to Gretag's fantastic Edit Module (and OSX 10.6.8).

"i will research the info palette in PS. i have never used it nor do i know how to use it. if it proves to be a worthy tool i will add it to my workflow. after all alas, i have to use photoshop for Canon's layout plugin that allows one to print for canvas wraps and it only runs in PS."

The Info Palette is the ONE palette that every serious Photoshop imaging professional (or hobbyist) should have open all the time. In addition to allowing you to monitor your actual pixel values where you cursor is placed, you can also place multiple Info Palette "probes" - sticky monitoring points that show up in the info palette and allow you to monitor many areas of the image at once. When you're setting white, black and gray points, this is indispensable and both takes most of the guesswork out of that but also makes it MUCH faster as well.

"i have never been big on post. i'm a minimalist in that respect. however, once i crossed the line into large format printing i soon found out that my workflow and tools weren't adequate. hence the new monitor, new software, new profiling calibration system, and new computer system with massive crunch power. in addition to matte cutter, framing press, healing pads, archival mounting supplies, acid free mattes and all the other junk to be a small shop print maker. i ain't jivin, i am very serious about this aspect of my business."

You don't have to be "big on post" to create great images, but if you don't have those skills, you often leave a lot on the table in terms of the impact of your images. I'm huge on post but only do what's necessary to achieve the look or image I want - or my clients need.




Nov 13, 2017 at 11:44 AM
R.H. Johnson
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


could go do a 100 mp Phase or Hassy - y'know, just for kicks. no too damned expensive and limited field use for what i shoot.

damn here we go if you're having to do such deep crops that you don't have enough pixels, maybe you're not using the right lens for the job. i have exactly what i need in glass for what i shoot 15-200mm, 300mm, 500mm, 800mm. don't get it twisted son. the limiting factor 18 MP 1DX. glass ain't in this equation for this project upgrading my HW/SW for large format printing. i'll put an end to this sarcastic belittlement and circular argument. i'm to old for this shit.

The Info Palette is the ONE palette that every serious Photoshop imaging professional (or hobbyist) should have open all the time. In addition to allowing you to monitor your actual pixel values where you cursor is placed, you can also place multiple Info Palette "probes" - sticky monitoring points that show up in the info palette and allow you to monitor many areas of the image at once. When you're setting white, black and gray points, this is indispensable and both takes most of the guesswork out of that but also makes it MUCH faster as well. i will try the info palette. but i have a question who's guessing? what good is setting a black point if we as humans are not sensitive to that part of the visual spectrum? better yet, i have found when i sub black point (if i can find a pure black point in the image) in setting CWB it shifts corrects the image's color spectrum. i must admit there is a positive this info palette is intriguing. i must try it hmmm. even in all this BS of negativity there is an unintended positive. lol

You don't have to be "big on post" to create great images, but if you don't have those skills, you often leave a lot on the table in terms of the impact of your images. how is this relevant? i adhere to the philosophy get it right in camera. then one don't need no PS to compensate for lack of shooting skill. why focus stack a hundred million thousand images when you could just use a T/S lens? when does a rendered image cease to be a photograph and become a rendering?

it bothers me although necessary, to have to PS my images. output sharpen for inkjet large format printing and have that PS appear in my metadata, yuck. i do understand your perspective. you have to do what you do to get the best image in studio commercial photography. but that is not what i do. therefore i can't look at you and judge you through my rose tinted glass. nor should you.

i don't like the performance of the 5DsR deplorable for what i shoot. but the 1DX at 18MP barely is in the game at 24" x 36". even then it becomes a fill the frame camera. which most of the time is not possible with what i shoot even when shooting with 500mm and 800mm TCed up. by the way, shooting in the wild your gonna crop images. hopefully not to deep of a crop to maintain at least 24-36 MP density. which brings up the other side of the coin 5D MKIV at 30MP effect with superior performance to 5DsR. all because i decided to buy that damned Pro4000, lol. i have no problem or short coming for the task at hand adjusting my workflow adjusting the hardware to achieve my desired results.

serious Photoshop imaging professional before i forget. i'm not a serious Photoshop imaging professional not what i do as a Master Photographer with a photographer's eye. i am who i am & who am i the Photographer, not an imaging professional. if it gets that serious and i need those services. since you're so damn good i'll just hire you to do the serious PP when the time comes. then you can reciprocate and hire me Master of Light Studios for your large format printing, matting, mounting, framing all to archival standards. don't even think about it. you can send me a preprocessed ready to print RAW image. since you don't believe in my color correction PP abilities. choose your media and let that Pro4000 do what it do. i guarantee you will be more than happily satisfied with your print. think i'm BSn try me. end of line, lol......

i never did ask what large format printer did you say you own?



Nov 13, 2017 at 12:42 PM
Peter Figen
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


"why focus stack a hundred million thousand images when you could just use a T/S lens?"

This is getting off topic but since you brought it up... A tilt-shift lens doesn't actually create any more depth of field than a on t/s lens, it can only change where the plane of sharp focus lies. For a landscape image this will often work but things like trees kinda get in the way. In the studio shooting product, the only way to get full near/far focus without completely hosing the inherent resolution in the camera/lens combo with diffraction is to focus stack, but it's usually between four and sixty images, not a hyperbolic hundred million. Even if you do stop all the way down to f/32 or f/45, you still won't have the depth but you will have the mush. And yes, I shoot most of my focus stacks with my tilt-shift lenses. There are plenty of examples on my web site.

"i will try the info palette. but i have a question who's guessing? what good is setting a black point if we as humans are not sensitive to that part of the visual spectrum?"

I never said we're not sensitive, only far less sensitive than in the midtones and the highlights, so the number absolutely make a difference. It's just like at the end of dusk when dusk is turning to night, we cannot differentiate colors that we know are there.

"it bothers me although necessary, to have to PS my images."

Have you ever seen Ansel's dodging and burning diagrams? They are more complicated than what most people attempt in Photoshop. I have no doubt that if he were alive and working today he'd be happily using all the tools available to him including Ps. Hell, back in the day, I used to move film from camera to camera to camera creating multiple exposures in the camera. Yeah, we used to get it in the camera back then and still do today, but what if it takes you five minute to do in post what it takes you an hour to create in camera? I know which direction I go.

"i don't like the performance of the 5DsR deplorable for what i shoot"

I've looked at your website and see nothing there that a 5DSR wouldn't excel on? Have you actually shot with one are just parroting what you've read somewhere. As far as deplorable, I'd save that for politics.

"i never did ask what large format printer did you say you own? "

We've got three Epson large format printers here in the studio - an ancient 9800 that's still rocking, a 9900 that's the main workhorse and that tiny little 64" 11880, so yeah, got that covered, in addition to two drum scanners that are still used on a regular basis.




Nov 13, 2017 at 05:43 PM
R.H. Johnson
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


if you looked at my website and the BIFs the 5DsR does not have the FPS for those shots. nor does it have the high iso performance to keep the shutter speed up for 500mm let lone 800mm. not to mention the buffer depth. what it does have are MPs and lots of it.

i don't own the MP monsters admittedly nor have i shot one. i do however have the 5D MKIII and its' frame rate can't keep up with the 1DX nor can the the 5DsR keep up with the 5D MKIII not mention the 5D MKIV. the 5DsR is imho an awesome camera suited more for studio, architecture, landscape under low iso conditions. 4.8fps is not well suited for BIF nor is the 5D MKIII when compared to the low light speed monster 1DX. the FPS of the 1DX is such that one can pick and choose wing position. the problem encountered with the 1DX is it is pixel limited at 18 MP. furthermore the 1DX II has the same pixel limitations at 20 MP. under those specifications one has to practically fill the frame with your target to barely reach good quality 24" x 36". if you have to crop into that frame you will drop below 17" x 28" large format prints. but if the frame can be filled oh my the DXs are beautiful.

i have to choose between the 5D MKIV or the up coming 5DsR MKII depending on the frame rate and overall specifications of the new sR to get those MPs up for printing LF.

as far as shooting with a 5DsR i have not shot one. but i've stood shoulder to shoulder with a 5Ds owner/shooter and listened to what he had to say shooting BIF real time with that camera compared to his 7D MKII. when we compared burst he stated what i miss when shooting this 5Ds is the frame rate and buffer depth of his 7D MKII. he said look at this see the wings compared to yours on that 1DX the frame rate is such that the wings are always in this same position. it's not fast enough to capture the wing positions like that 1DX.

those bald eagle BIFs on my site are greater than 40% crops that equates to a 10.8 MP density. you can't print LF with that pixel density. i've tried the images start falling apart at 17" x 28". don't tell me about lens not long enough. don't want to hear it. the nest is just too far away in a 150' tree in the mountain 450' away and 300' straight drop behind a fence you can't get any closer. forestry even had the nerve to set an eagle exclusion zone 700' around the nest.

those are gorgeous eagle BIF shots but they can't be printed LF. color clarity everything's there except fine feather detail resolution my friend resolution. you know i ain't happy that i can not print those images 24" x 36" with any degree of quality.

I never said we're not sensitive, only far less sensitive than in the midtones and the highlights, so the number absolutely make a difference

therein lies the problem. we are not on the same page. talking apples and oranges. i'm using black point CWB to shift the color space for color accuracy. one has found in difficult or mixed lighting eg. combined flash and tungsten for instance. in that case i experimented and discovered if i were to set WB to tungsten the color shift would give me a greater number of black points in and near a correct color space. this would produce new equal 3 channel (R=B=G) black point values. i would then pick a new black point for CWB. this will result in a new color shift very close to the correct WB and color spectrum. in any case the color response was certainly closer to being normalized than the auto WB generated in camera originally.

these are empirical observations and results. derived by thinking and experimenting out of the box . but they do work, even if contrary to conventional logic and understanding. in all of this back and forth it perplexes one how someone can say you just got lucky with one print that matched on screen in color. without having a clue of the operational functionality of the process. based on their logic and understanding without actually having disproved the process. wow really, lol.....

what i like about those Epsons is the Straight-through media path. i hated giving that up for Canon's Pro 4000 overall better print quality, a tough choice.

Edited on Nov 15, 2017 at 08:05 PM · View previous versions



Nov 13, 2017 at 07:44 PM
R.H. Johnson
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?


literally, the devil is in the details photographically and in linguistic subtleties. hmmm, passive aggression? irrelevant.....

a summarization in totality. MOS shall upgrade the system's CMM, large format printing functionality, system hardware and software. the LFP system shall proficiently and efficiently achieve maximum output resolution in large format printing output. the upgrade process shall be inclusive of workflow modifications as applicable. the end user (print master) shall execute the LFPO in a defined high quality color controlled environment. the PM shall obtain maximized final results that shall not be deterred or inferred from specified LFP parameters.

so, to answer your question What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!? in this specific case. the MP shall achieve maximum large format printing output resolution in a well defined and controlled high quality CMM calibrated LF printing environment. the calibrated LF printing environment shall consist of monitors, computer systems, LAN, WAN, routers, WIFI, media, and printers. a color calibrated monitor in this instance shall allow the MP to see the post production work and color space accurately on screen in real time. which shall improve the post processing and LF printing workflow, iopo (in one's professional opinion.)

thank you, gentlemen for allowing me an insightful and learntive commentary experience.



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:35 PM
nrferguson
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · What is the Point of Monitor Calibration!?




Zenon Char wrote:
Do yourself a favour. Put the Spyder back in it's web and get an Xrite i1 Display Pro. You will never look back.

Which is what I just did (but a Spyder3) having been to an Epsom Print Academy workshop



Jan 04, 2018 at 02:06 PM
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