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Contemplating a switch...
  
 
kapsnb01
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Contemplating a switch...


Hello all -

Been a Nikon shooter for several years (D7000, D7200, D500, now D750). Have found things that I like about each of those Nikon cameras, and things that have inevitably caused me to move on. I primarily shoot indoor action - my daughter is 10 yrs old and is very active in dance, so I spend a lot of time in high school gyms from Dec-May. This comprises about half of the shots I take in a given year and has been the primary source of dissatisfaction with the above cameras. The rest of my shooting is environmental and landscape.

If I could combine the D500 and D750, I'd have the perfect camera for what I'm looking to do, but alas, that camera doesn't seem to exist (maybe the D5). The D500 was great for dance, awesome autofocus, great low light focusing, and a really strong frame rate & buffer. But, the low light in these gyms led to a lot of noise and the files took a lot of pp work to end up decent. The D750 is better file wise in low light, but I'm missing shots with the slower focus, frame rate, and buffer. If my daughter and her teammates were older, there'd be less of an issue because they'd likely be more in sync in their moves/kicks/etc. But, they aren't and the high frame rate of the D500 gave me some shots that were useable even when a few of the girls weren't "spot on." I'm getting less of this with the D750, even though I really like the files.

This is getting long winded, so enter the A9. From the reviews and specs that I've read, it seems that this camera is a good fusion of the features that I really like in both the D500 & D750. I hesitate to jump from Nikon as I've got lenses that I love in the 70-200 2.8 FL & 24-70 2.8 VR. So, I'm asking for opinions. Am I barking up the wrong tree with the A9 and should just suck it up with the D750? Should I accept that the files in the D500 just will always require a lot of pp work and go back to it for the features I really liked? Or do you think I'll finally find the combination that works with the A9? Thoughts/advice/experiences appreciated.



Nov 10, 2017 at 02:32 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Contemplating a switch...


Or the D850 with the extra grip and battery/charger? 9FPS plus you get to keep your Nikon lenses.

All in theory, since I've never used the A9 or the D850. A used D5 could also be the answer, but that's a lot of bulk for your other work.



Nov 10, 2017 at 02:52 PM
davewolfs
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Contemplating a switch...


Why not rent a D850 and see if it works or order from an online merchant with a liberal return policy.


Nov 10, 2017 at 03:01 PM
kapsnb01
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Contemplating a switch...


Appreciate the responses so far, the D850 is another consideration. I've hesitated on it as I've read/seen a lot of conflicting information on it's low light performance. Most of the reviews seem split as to whether it'd be a good low light action camera or not.

If I get that one, it'll probably cost double in the need to upgrade my computer/storage for the huge file sizes! But yes, I'm definitely keeping that one in mind as well.



Nov 10, 2017 at 03:19 PM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Contemplating a switch...


Own one [D850] .... it's about a half stop better than the already class leading D810 [when downsampled] but the color noise is greatly reduced. Low light performance is comparable to the A9. I want an A9... so don't get me wrong, but low light/high ISO is not one of the things swaying me either way.

The A9 looks like an amazing camera if you're ok with 24mpix and smaller body form (I have a love hate with the A7 series for this reason).

kapsnb01 wrote:
Appreciate the responses so far, the D850 is another consideration. I've hesitated on it as I've read/seen a lot of conflicting information on it's low light performance. Most of the reviews seem split as to whether it'd be a good low light action camera or not.

If I get that one, it'll probably cost double in the need to upgrade my computer/storage for the huge file sizes! But yes, I'm definitely keeping that one in mind as well.



Edited on Nov 10, 2017 at 04:08 PM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2017 at 04:07 PM
lightskyland
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Contemplating a switch...


The A9 is great if you might ever want to take video of your daughter under those conditions, since you can use the EVF to frame. Also, silent shutter is a revelation whenever you don't want to make yourself the center of attention with clack clack clack clack clack.

I think you have to ask yourself if either of those features seems worth the trouble of switching, or not.




Nov 10, 2017 at 04:07 PM
kapsnb01
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Contemplating a switch...


lightskyland wrote:
The A9 is great if you might ever want to take video of your daughter under those conditions, since you can use the EVF to frame. Also, silent shutter is a revelation whenever you don't want to make yourself the center of attention with clack clack clack clack clack.

I think you have to ask yourself if either of those features seems worth the trouble of switching, or not.



The silent shutter is a great feature, but for dance not a requirement as they crank the music up to about 500. It would be incredibly handy for a lot of other uses though. I also like the idea of not needing to autofocus fine tune.

While a pain, if I'm going to make a switch I think I'm in a decent spot to do it. I think my kit would be easily saleable. But, it involves a learning curve that I'll again need to go through.

Blakehfreeman wrote:
Own one [D850] .... it's about a half stop better than the already class leading D810 [when downsampled] but the color noise is greatly reduced. Low light performance is comparable to the A9. I want an A9... so don't get me wrong, but low light/high ISO is not one of the things swaying me either way.

The A9 looks like an amazing camera if you're ok with 24mpix and smaller body form (I have a love hate with the A7 series for this reason).


Thanks for that info. So, in your experience with the D850, it's been significantly better in low light action type shooting? Basically on par with what the A9 would be in a low light/high ISO situation. That performance and the 20 FPS of the A9 is what really got me to start looking at it as an alternative. It seemed to be a hybrid of what the D500/D750 each do well. How is the D850 focus acquisition in low light, as good as the D5/D500 (I think I read that the D850 uses the same/similar AF as the D5/D500)?

Ergonomics is one of my concerns with the A9 as well since I really liked how the D500 fit in my hand...to date, that's been my favorite camera to shoot.



Nov 10, 2017 at 04:59 PM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Contemplating a switch...


I picked up a D850 as I have a Nikon 200mm VRII and needed an updated body for that. I wasn't expecting any image quality bump from my D800E as it was already stellar. There is a noticeable bump in low light ISO performance and the AF was incredibly good as well. What will make me truly envious will be the A9R. My feeling is the D850 has better AF than the A7riii, while slightly lagging the A9.

There are only three reason I still shoot Nikon:
1. Nikon 200mm 2.0VRII
2. Nikon 105mm 1.4E
3. Nikon 70-200 2.8E

I wish there was a better adapter for Nikon F to Sony E... as I'll go kicking and screaming into the night with those lenses.

EDIT: I'd rather have the A9 body for dance... silent shutter and 20FPS. But I'd also much rather have my 200mm and 70-200... 🤦🏼‍♂️

kapsnb01 wrote:
The silent shutter is a great feature, but for dance not a requirement as they crank the music up to about 500. It would be incredibly handy for a lot of other uses though. I also like the idea of not needing to autofocus fine tune.

While a pain, if I'm going to make a switch I think I'm in a decent spot to do it. I think my kit would be easily saleable. But, it involves a learning curve that I'll again need to go through.

Thanks for that info. So, in your experience with the D850, it's been significantly
...Show more


Edited on Nov 10, 2017 at 05:14 PM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2017 at 05:12 PM
elimoss
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Contemplating a switch...


Hold on there. Have you even tried full electronic shutter in these gyms? Are you sure there isn't banding with the particular lighting in there? Sometimes it's an issue -- although much less so with the A9 than other cameras -- and if it is, you're stuck with the ~5fps mechanical shutter on the A9, and that would stink.

Also, the Nikkor 70-200 2.8 FL is (per OLAF MTF tests) leaps better than the Sony 70-200 GM when shot wide open at f/2.8, which I imagine you are shooting.

Don't forget that the a9 is 12 bit in continuous mode. Has few implications at high ISO, but if you ever shoot outdoor action at iso 100-200 it has a modest impact on dynamic range.



Nov 10, 2017 at 05:13 PM
elizabeth77
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Contemplating a switch...


I use the a9 for this kind of action and it's fantastic. My ONLY issue with it is that I loved the high MP of the a7rii (and riii). However it's still plenty of resolution for most needs. I do almost no post work and am really happy with the a9.

If you want to catch action with AF, and don't have a commercial or artistic need for giant prints, I think you will be very happy with the a9. A system switch is a big deal, though, so you may wish to rent as a start.



Nov 10, 2017 at 05:17 PM
 

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kapsnb01
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Contemplating a switch...


Blakehfreeman wrote:
EDIT: I'd rather have the A9 body for dance... silent shutter and 20FPS. But I'd also much rather have my 200mm and 70-200... 🤦🏼‍♂️


That is the primary source of hesitation. That 70-200 lens is my favorite lens and like was mentioned by another, it's significantly better than it's Sony equivalent. The Nikon lens lineup is really tough to walk away from, for me anyway. There are some really good lenses in there.

I'm really in no rush, as my daughter only has one dance before January. That said, I'll continue to do research and gather opinions, especially if it becomes apparent that a system change is where I'll end up.

Someone brought up the banding issue, which as I understand is mainly related to stadium LED lighting for the A9, or did I misinterpret what I read? From what I read on it, none of the gyms my daughter would dance in would have that type of an issue.

Appreciate all the feedback so far, getting opinions from those that use the gear in different situations always helps me feel like a more informed buyer (and helps me think about things I hadn't considered before).



Nov 10, 2017 at 06:54 PM
elizabeth77
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Contemplating a switch...


kapsnb01 wrote:
That is the primary source of hesitation. That 70-200 lens is my favorite lens and like was mentioned by another, it's significantly better than it's Sony equivalent. The Nikon lens lineup is really tough to walk away from, for me anyway. There are some really good lenses in there.

I'm really in no rush, as my daughter only has one dance before January. That said, I'll continue to do research and gather opinions, especially if it becomes apparent that a system change is where I'll end up.

Someone brought up the banding issue, which as I understand is mainly related
...Show more

You could rent the a9 for that one dance, even try adapting your 70-200 and see how you feel. Pricey test but I've never regretted a rental test.
FWIW, I love the Sony 70-200 GM but I seem to be one of few and I have never shot with Nikon at all.




Nov 10, 2017 at 07:29 PM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Contemplating a switch...


Elizabeth, it's not that the Sony 70-200GM isn't sharp enough... I think for most it's that the Nikon is sharper. Wish all these companies would merge so we wouldn't have to make these choices! 🤦🏼‍♂️ [sarcasm, monopolies are terrible]

elizabeth77 wrote:
You could rent the a9 for that one dance, even try adapting your 70-200 and see how you feel. Pricey test but I've never regretted a rental test.
FWIW, I love the Sony 70-200 GM but I seem to be one of few and I have never shot with Nikon at all.





Nov 10, 2017 at 08:00 PM
elimoss
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Contemplating a switch...


https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7370859353/sony-a9-banding-reported-by-fro-fact-or-fiction

The takeaway being that most manufacturer's mechanical shutter still sweeps faster than the a9's electronic shutter, but the a9 is fast enough to alleviate most banding concerns.




Nov 10, 2017 at 08:50 PM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Contemplating a switch...


For me I'd go A7riii for 10fps mechanical shutter... really should have been included with the A9 in my opinion.

elimoss wrote:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7370859353/sony-a9-banding-reported-by-fro-fact-or-fiction

The takeaway being that most manufacturer's mechanical shutter still sweeps faster than the a9's electronic shutter, but the a9 is fast enough to alleviate most banding concerns.





Nov 10, 2017 at 09:09 PM
charles.K
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Contemplating a switch...


I am sure the A9 will be superb, but you need to look at the lenses you need to replace. As mentioned rent the D850 and see if it gels. I have used the A7r, A7s, A7II and A7rII series and D750/810 and now D850. All excellent systems but it will come down to the lenses you love to use.

You are looking for low light ISO performance, the A9 and D5 would be your better choice. I would rent or borrow the D5 as you have your lenses and the 70-200/2.8E FL is one of the best zoom lenses I have owned in IQ and AF speed/accuracy



Nov 10, 2017 at 11:34 PM
kapsnb01
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Contemplating a switch...


charles.K wrote:
I am sure the A9 will be superb, but you need to look at the lenses you need to replace. As mentioned rent the D850 and see if it gels. I have used the A7r, A7s, A7II and A7rII series and D750/810 and now D850. All excellent systems but it will come down to the lenses you love to use.

You are looking for low light ISO performance, the A9 and D5 would be your better choice. I would rent or borrow the D5 as you have your lenses and the 70-200/2.8E FL is one of the best zoom lenses I
...Show more

I definitely agree that I need to shoot these before deciding which to go forward with. If I can find a good enough deal used (D5 & A9 anyway), I may pull the trigger and grab one. If I don't like it, I'll likely be able to turn it around for close to what I'd paid for it.

Charles, you're 100% right on the lenses...it's my biggest hang up on switching systems. I love the 70-200 and there are other Nikon lenses that I don't own but definitely would not mind owning/shooting. Yet the A9 speaks to me with it's combination of features/price/performance, especially for what I'm shooting. In the end, I'll need to shoot the A9 and D5 (possibly the D850).



Nov 11, 2017 at 12:36 AM
elizabeth77
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Contemplating a switch...


Blakehfreeman wrote:
Elizabeth, it's not that the Sony 70-200GM isn't sharp enough... I think for most it's that the Nikon is sharper. Wish all these companies would merge so we wouldn't have to make these choices! 🤦🏼‍♂️ [sarcasm, monopolies are terrible]



I was actually thinking that if your 70-200 will adapt well on the a9, you might lose a couple things but still get best of both worlds? Or will 24 MP not show off the lens enough? I could see that.
As much as I love Sony cameras I'm sure there are lenses for the other systems that just rock the world. Because I've always shot Sony and Leica, at least since I became "serious", I am truly a know-nothing on other systems' top-end lenses. I am sure soon enough I'll start on that path too and REALLY be in trouble!



Nov 11, 2017 at 02:55 AM
philip_pj
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Contemplating a switch...


The majors should be great at the fast pro zooms. It's not always been the case as they are a tough ask, but the last Nikon 70-200 sounds like the real deal. It's great to see the direction they took with the 24-70 as well (less central performance to 'pay for' great outer frames).

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8e-fl-ed-af-s-vr-mtf-tests/
https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-24-70mm-f2-8e-vr



Nov 11, 2017 at 04:35 AM







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