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a7r3 and playmemories apps?
  
 
kdrk888
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


GMPhotography wrote:
I think the real issue is processing power and they donít want to take anything away from the processor abilities. These apps maybe stored in the processor and not like a separate internal storage.


I am not sure if the issue is processing power. Many Sony cameras, including the A7RII, have less processing power than the new ones, they work fine with the apps. I kept hoping Sony would even add a decent focus stacking app but now they took all apps away. I will definitely wait and see.



Nov 09, 2017 at 08:20 PM
thrice
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


GMPhotography wrote:
I think the real issue is processing power and they donít want to take anything away from the processor abilities. These apps maybe stored in the processor and not like a separate internal storage.


Hi Guy, I'm pretty sure there is a dedicated separate ROM ~100MB dedicated to apps. Even if it is filled the camera does not slow down or change operation in Ďnon-appí mode.
The performance of the apps themselves however is often laggy since the amount of processing happening especially in smooth reflections and digital filter apps is very high. It's remarkable that the camera can process 256 RAW files using a mean filter in-camera. That sort of thing brings my workstation to its knees.



Nov 09, 2017 at 08:23 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


pdmphoto wrote:
If the shutter works for irs rated life expectancy, I don't see the shutter issue as being a major flaw. Silent shutter on the A7R2 is limited to 12 bit files. This would have been a great Improvement for the A7R3 with its 14 bit silent shutter capability. Instead, I won't be upgrading due to the apps not being supported.

Fred, a good amount if your excellent wide angle landscape shots i have seen posted by you were done with the Smooth Reflection app. ND filters are a pain and won't have the same result. Gotta hurt. Maybe easier (and
...Show more

It's true that the shutter life expectancy is high on these cameras but if one is extensively using the Smooth Reflections app, it's a big negative and in my opinion an unnecessary deficiency. Each scene could take up to 256 shots using the mechanical shutter instead of 'zero' in the case of silent shutter...That's not even counting possible focus bracketing if needed for the scene. We've asked Sony to add silent shutter + uncompressed RAW support and instead got the app completely removed.

You mentioned the drop in precision for silent shutter on the A7RII but Smooth Reflections resulting files do not seem to be 14 bits even with the mechanical shutter. I've used this app extensively and there is no latitude in the highlights. If you blow them when using the app, they're gone for good...

I'm not that upset about the lack of SR on the A7RIII because it's possible to do it in post-processing and now there is the option of having 14-bit silent shutter and uncompressed RAW. Having said that, I'm still hoping for an 'image averaging' option built-in via main firmware. (Canon and Nikon offer this feature)

On the bright side, the new Arsenal device seems to support image averaging and this could potentially provide the same Smooth Reflections capability with the additional benefit of using silent shutter and uncompressed RAW. According to them, the resulting RAW image will be recorded in camera. (just like SR)



Nov 09, 2017 at 08:43 PM
Matt Grum
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


pdmphoto wrote:
I think it has to do with Sony wanting a closed system more than anything else. They don't want users to have the ability to get into their camera and change or add options. Sony is no Apple.


I agree with you.... but I never thought I'd see the day when Apple is used an an example of an open system



Nov 09, 2017 at 08:44 PM
Charlie N
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's true that the shutter life expectancy is high on these cameras but if one is extensively using the Smooth Reflections app, it's a big negative and in my opinion an unnecessary deficiency. Each scene could take up to 256 shots using the mechanical shutter instead of 'zero' in the case of silent shutter...That's not even counting possible focus bracketing if needed for the scene. We've asked Sony to add silent shutter + uncompressed RAW support and instead got the app completely removed.

You mentioned the drop in precision for silent shutter on the A7RII but Smooth Reflections resulting
...Show more

I can already sense money flying out of my pocket



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:14 PM
kdrk888
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's true that the shutter life expectancy is high on these cameras but if one is extensively using the Smooth Reflections app, it's a big negative and in my opinion an unnecessary deficiency. Each scene could take up to 256 shots using the mechanical shutter instead of 'zero' in the case of silent shutter...That's not even counting possible focus bracketing if needed for the scene. We've asked Sony to add silent shutter + uncompressed RAW support and instead got the app completely removed.

You mentioned the drop in precision for silent shutter on the A7RII but Smooth Reflections resulting
...Show more


Fred, this Arsenal thingy looks pretty interesting, especially if it can do focus stacking and save the merged image as a raw file in the camera...just placed an order


Edited on Nov 09, 2017 at 09:44 PM · View previous versions



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:21 PM
Stoffer
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
On the bright side, the new Arsenal device seems to support image averaging and this could potentially provide the same Smooth Reflections capability with the additional benefit of using silent shutter and uncompressed RAW. The resulting RAW image will be recorded in camera. (just like SR)


Hmmm... Intriguing!



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:29 PM
mjm6
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's true that the shutter life expectancy is high on these cameras but if one is extensively using the Smooth Reflections app, it's a big negative and in my opinion an unnecessary deficiency. Each scene could take up to 256 shots using the mechanical shutter instead of 'zero' in the case of silent shutter...That's not even counting possible focus bracketing if needed for the scene. We've asked Sony to add silent shutter + uncompressed RAW support and instead got the app completely removed.

You mentioned the drop in precision for silent shutter on the A7RII but Smooth Reflections resulting
...Show more

It seems like Arsenal is designed primarily to send out to the web through the phone as a primary means of sharing files. I wonder how well this is going to handle full resolution RAW files. It wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't handle them well at all, or if it ultimately will have to wait for future development to handle the huge files and proprietary RAW file handling compared to JPG.

It does say that you can preview RAW files, but that doesn't mean it will be able to use RAW for image processing...

It does look great, though... I'm quite interested in it for a few different purposes. I haven't preordered it, but I may have to do so.



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:32 PM
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


I've contacted Arsenal, asking about the image averaging, focus stacking, time-lapse features and if they needed help beta-testing it. Here is the answer I received today:

"Iím sorry, we donít have enough beta units to accommodate every request. But thanks for your interest."



Nov 09, 2017 at 11:11 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
I've contacted Arsenal, asking about the image averaging, focus stacking, time-lapse features and if they needed help beta-testing it. Here is the answer I received today:

"Iím sorry, we donít have enough beta units to accommodate every request. But thanks for your interest."


They need to do a Google search on Fred and if they do it should be at your door in the morning. Iíll refrain from my next comment. Lol



Nov 09, 2017 at 11:29 PM
 

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tntcorp
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


pdmphoto wrote:
I think it has to do with Sony wanting a closed system more than anything else. They don't want users to have the ability to get into their camera and change or add options. Sony is no Apple.


do you mean to say that sony is just like apple, who does not like giving users ability to tweak their products?



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:07 AM
tntcorp
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Parariss wrote:
Some earlier discussion on this here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1403764/19#14188341

The new RX10 IV is also missing the app store, and it is by no means a pro camera. So, either Sony is planning to completely reboot the app concept in some future firmware update, or they're simply retiring the whole idea.

I think it's the latter. Users don't need apps, they need functionality, and there's a finite number of particularly useful features to add. Writing the functionality directly into the camera's firmware is the easiest way to add functions, gives Sony full control of the product, and circumvents all of the extra overhead associated
...Show more

sorry; i searched before posting but didn't locate the cited discussion. :-)



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:16 AM
kdrk888
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
I've contacted Arsenal, asking about the image averaging, focus stacking, time-lapse features and if they needed help beta-testing it. Here is the answer I received today:

"Iím sorry, we donít have enough beta units to accommodate every request. But thanks for your interest."


I contacted Arsenal few hours ago after I paced my order. They confirmed the focus stacking function will merge the pictures in camera and save the merged file in raw, plus the raw files of the individual shots.



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:16 AM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


I equate that to giving my clients the Raws to process themselves. That will never happen from me, they will just screw them up. This is a business. Itís supposed to protect itself and make money. Sony is not going to give anything up. My theory is you will be buying these apps for your mobile device and they wonít be free.


Nov 10, 2017 at 12:16 AM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


kdrk888 wrote:
I contacted Arsenal few hours ago after I paced my order. They confirmed the focus stacking function will merge the pictures in camera and save the merged file in raw, plus the raw files of the individual shots.


Nice feature



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:17 AM
tntcorp
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's true that the shutter life expectancy is high on these cameras but if one is extensively using the Smooth Reflections app, it's a big negative and in my opinion an unnecessary deficiency. Each scene could take up to 256 shots using the mechanical shutter instead of 'zero' in the case of silent shutter...That's not even counting possible focus bracketing if needed for the scene. We've asked Sony to add silent shutter + uncompressed RAW support and instead got the app completely removed.



too funny.. ask for improvements and all apps got cancelled. thank you sony for listening to your users loud & clear... :')



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:22 AM
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


kdrk888 wrote:
I contacted Arsenal few hours ago after I paced my order. They confirmed the focus stacking function will merge the pictures in camera and save the merged file in raw, plus the raw files of the individual shots.


Yes I contacted them too: for both focus stacking and HDR it saves a 16 bit DNG of the merged file as well as the RAW files back on your card.

And best of all focus stacking with manual focus lenses works like this

Focus on closes thing you want, press button
focus on furthest thing you want, press button.
choose your shooting aperture
Arsenal spits out the rough distance to set your lens for 1st image, press button, repeat until done.

Of course you could just choose your own distances (and I in fact would add a critical focus image of anything of great significance in a landscape) but I've often found gaps in my focus stacking sequences.

This will be like using a automatic rail for stack focussing macro!




Nov 10, 2017 at 12:39 AM
Parariss
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


xpfloyd wrote:
Itís a weird one as I imagine the actual costs of the App Store would be low as they already have the entire thing setup for PlayStation users I.e itís your PSN login you use for both. Unless the cost d developing the apps themselves is expensive but I imagine a firmware update to include the same functionality would incur a similar cost


The app store is only a small piece of it. You have to develop and maintain APIs in the camera firmware ("Application Programmer's Interface" -- the interface points where the apps can interact at arm's length with the camera's own software without screwing it up). And, if you're going to allow third-parties to make apps (which is where the potential for enhanced value actually comes in), you also need publishable documentation, developer support initiatives, and quality control teams to make sure apps aren't time bombs. (And, good luck attracting a herd of developers to your decidedly niche product.) Don't forget to multiply your total effort by the number of product models you have, and again for each firmware update you push out for each of those models. Also, many features don't lend themselves to being added by apps (e.g. pixel shift) because of the deep level of integration required.

For your efforts, you gain an added security risk, the potential for down-market models to threaten the sales of your higher end cameras, customers pissed off over being nickel-and-dimed by your supposedly upmarket product, and what likely amounts to only marginal additional revenue.

Or, you could simply add features to your product as they become competitively necessary.


Edited on Nov 10, 2017 at 12:56 AM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:47 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


DavidBM wrote:
Yes I contacted them too: for both focus stacking and HDR it saves a 16 bit DNG of the merged file as well as the RAW files back on your card.

And best of all focus stacking with manual focus lenses works like this

Focus on closes thing you want, press button
focus on furthest thing you want, press button.
choose your shooting aperture
Arsenal spits out the rough distance to set your lens for 1st image, press button, repeat until done.

Of course you could just choose your own distances (and I in fact would add a critical focus image of anything of great significance
...Show more

Did you ask them about their image averaging feature? How many shots can we do? (SR gives us from 2 to 256)
Does it save it back to the card as a RAW? Does it support uncompressed RAW and silent shutter?
I could not get any answer from them but perhaps I reached someone who didn't know much...



Nov 10, 2017 at 12:52 AM
snapsy
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · a7r3 and playmemories apps?


kdrk888 wrote:
I contacted Arsenal few hours ago after I paced my order. They confirmed the focus stacking function will merge the pictures in camera and save the merged file in raw, plus the raw files of the individual shots.


I don't believe this type of functionality is exposed to third-party apps, so I would guess all the processing is done within the camera/tablet app, with the resulting file sent back to the camera over the USB/MTP interface to be saved on the media card.



Nov 10, 2017 at 01:05 AM
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