Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

  

How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?
  
 
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


I've been trying very hard to get educated about Sony lenses. There are so many options and it can get confusing with all the letter designations and the a mount/e mount.

What I'm trying to figure out is if APS-C lenses work on full frame bodies - and how exactly does that work? I mean, does an APS-C lens only take up a certain amount of image space on the full frame sensor? If so, which part of the sensor? Is the focal length the same? For instance is a 24mm APS-C lens a 24mm view on a full frame sensor?

What are some circumstances where you think that using an APS-C lens on a FF sensor body is a good thing or just not worth it? I mean, you have a full frame sensor, so why wouldn't you want to use all of it?

Just trying to get my head wrapped around this.



Nov 08, 2017 at 02:54 AM
Steve Spencer
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


pasblues wrote:
I've been trying very hard to get educated about Sony lenses. There are so many options and it can get confusing with all the letter designations and the a mount/e mount.

What I'm trying to figure out is if APS-C lenses work on full frame bodies - and how exactly does that work? I mean, does an APS-C lens only take up a certain amount of image space on the full frame sensor? If so, which part of the sensor? Is the focal length the same? For instance is a 24mm APS-C lens a 24mm view on a full frame
...Show more

Yes, APS-C lenses work on FF Sony bodies. When you use them most people shoot in crop mode and that just uses the middle part of the sensor the size of an APS-C sensor. The focal length (which is a physical measurement) is the same, but the field of view (i.e., what it looks like) changes. A 24mm lens in crop mode on the Sony cameras will look about like a 35mm lens in crop mode.

Crop mode can be useful for some people when they don't need the extra resolution, dynamic range, or high ISO performance that you get by using the whole sensor and it is convenient to get a field of view that is that of a long lens. For example, there is not a 200mm prime yet for Sony FF, but you could shoot a 135mm lens in crop mode and have the field of view of a 200mm lens. You could always shoot using the whole sensor and crop in post, but it can be nice to have the viewfinder show you what the crop to APS-C looks like and crop mode allows you to do that.



Nov 08, 2017 at 04:00 AM
kevindar
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


the full frame has an auto mode, or full frame mode. In auto mode, it recognizes the aps-c size lens, and crops the central portion of the image (1.5x). the resolution is decreased by a factor of square of that (2.25). so deivide the full frame resolution by 2.25.

In non crop mode (full frame). it records from the full sensor. keep in mind that the image circle is square, if there is no rectangular wafer on the back of the lens. with majority of lenses, the image circle produced does not cover the sensor with varying degree of black area. rumor has it that for example with sone 10-18, past 16mm, the image circle is covered.

Where I find the lens most useful for is shooting 4k video in "super 35" mode, where the lens works perfectly.



Nov 08, 2017 at 04:28 AM
notherenow
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


As said, APSC lenses can be used either FF with varying degrees of vignetting or in APSC as on a normal APSC camera.

Some APSC lenses might be ok FF with little vignetting (maybe some zooms for part of the range- I know my cheap and cheerful Canon APSC kit lens covers FF from around 23mm and up adapted to my A7s).

There are a couple of limitations with some APSC lenses (at least with some cameras anyway). The E mount APSC 16-50 kit lens for instance works ok except that its stabilization doesn't work on the first gen cameras.

The stabilization of the little 50 1.8 E mount lens does work ok. That lens has some vignetting used FF but it is actually a nice lens with around 16mm of extension tubes on a first gen camera as a cheap stabilized 50mm macro lens.

Jpeg and video shooters can also use APSC lenses FF without vignetting by using a little bit of clear image zoom (amount will vary with lens but might be as little as 1.3x).

Generally FF lenses will be better but if you have an APSC lens or there isn't a FF lens available to you, they can have there uses.

On the higher MP cameras APSC mode is also quite useful (as is APSC video on all of them).



Nov 08, 2017 at 04:45 AM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


The 10_18 has great reputation on FF. Usable from 11/12 to16/17. Great value for money for WA zoom. There's a couple of excellent reviews around.


Nov 08, 2017 at 09:26 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


pasblues wrote:
What I'm trying to figure out is if APS-C lenses work on full frame bodies - and how exactly does that work? I mean, does an APS-C lens only take up a certain amount of image space on the full frame sensor? If so, which part of the sensor? Is the focal length the same? For instance is a 24mm APS-C lens a 24mm view on a full frame sensor?


The focal length is the focal length, so a 24mm APS-C lens gives the same magnification as a 24mm but might only illuminate part of the sensor. The A7 cameras are capable of detecting that an APS-C lens is attached and automatically cropping the image (and viewfinder view) so it feels just like using the same lens on an APS-C camera.

But that's not the only option, you can disable this and see/record the whole sensor. When you do that you get something like this (APS-C crop is highlighted in red):







A7RII + Sony E 55-210mm f/4.5-6.3 @ 210mm

A lot Sony APS-C lenses contain rectangular baffles in the rear to reduce lens flare (any light which is going to fall outside of the sensor can only cause trouble, it's better to block it). Even with the baffle the image extends beyond the APS-C sensor. I was able to produce a perfectly good 24 megapixel crop (the dark corners at the top are easily fixed, I'm leaving them in deliberately):







The 55-210 is not spectacular at 210mm but for the price I think it aquits itself well when viewed at 100% (actual pixels):







pasblues wrote:
What are some circumstances where you think that using an APS-C lens on a FF sensor body is a good thing or just not worth it?


Since the highest resolution APS-C sensors are only 24 MP people moving up to the A7R I/II/III can probably use all of their existing lenses and not lose resolution. Of course there would be no point upgrading if that's all you do, but it means you can slowly replace your lenses with full frame equivalents.



Nov 08, 2017 at 10:01 AM
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


I have avoided them because I didn't see the point of using a crop lens on a FF body. Is there an APS-C lens that is so remarkable that it would be worth the loss of FF?


Nov 08, 2017 at 09:52 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Duckysaysquack
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


pasblues wrote:
I have avoided them because I didn't see the point of using a crop lens on a FF body. Is there an APS-C lens that is so remarkable that it would be worth the loss of FF?


All of Sony's premium lenses are for the FF. There are no G or G Master lenses for APS-C unfortunately. There are GOOD APS-C lenses for Sony to be sure (the 24mm 1.8 Zeiss comes to mind), but it's not a direct comparison with FF lenses because people don't really compare APS-C lenses with FF ones. A camera with higher resolution like the 42MP A7rii will highlight the limitations of lenses more than a APS-C 24MP sensor because higher MP can show finer sharpness details. When you pop an APS-C lens on an A7Rii you get something like 16MP which kind of defeats the purpose. However no one really puts APS-C lenses on a A7rii to test it out against a comparable FF lens. It's kind of like asking "is there a tire for a Honda Civic that's so good that it would worth the loss of a Ferrari?"


APS-C on FF is useful if you are in a jam, or if you want to use it to get more "zoom" out of your lenses (I have done this a few times) but generally they are not as good as the FF ones.



Nov 09, 2017 at 03:34 PM
Parariss
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?



Duckysaysquack wrote:
All of Sony's premium lenses are for the FF. There are no G or G Master lenses for APS-C unfortunately. There are GOOD APS-C lenses for Sony to be sure (the 24mm 1.8 Zeiss comes to mind), but it's not a direct comparison with FF lenses because people don't really compare APS-C lenses with FF ones. A camera with higher resolution like the 42MP A7rii will highlight the limitations of lenses more than a APS-C 24MP sensor because higher MP can show finer sharpness details. When you pop an APS-C lens on an A7Rii you get something like 16MP which
...Show more


It's absolutely true that Sony's better glass is full frame, but respectfully, there are several statements in here that I think may be inaccurate.

"A camera with higher resolution like the 42MP A7rii will highlight the limitations of lenses more than a APS-C 24MP sensor because higher MP can show finer sharpness details."

The increase in megapixels of full frame goes towards increasing the surface area of the sensor. The pixel density (i.e. the number of pixels per square cm) is actually less on Sony's full frame than on APS-C. So, if there is a limiting factor associated with a lens that is corresponds with resolution, that limitation will show up first on the APS-C camera. However, I think the main reason Sony's APS-C lenses don't generally stack up to Sony's full frame lenses has nothing to do with the increased stresses from the sensor, it's because APS-C lenses are made more cheaply for a lower end of the market.

"APS-C on FF is useful...if you want to use it to get more "zoom" out of your lenses..."

You don't get more zoom (as in magnification) by putting an APS-C lens on a full frame camera, you simply get a reduced field of view. If you take a picture of a duck on a pond, the resolution of the duck is the same, you just see less of the surrounding pond. Your field of view is similar to a longer lens, but you don't actually gain any "zoom." If you put the APS-C lens on an APS-C camera, however, you get the same field of view as before, but now you also get additional zoom/magnification because the APS-C camera has the aforementioned higher pixel density, placing more total pixels on target (for modern Sonys, by about 1/3).

Reasons for using an APS-C lens on a full frame include:
o Smaller size and lower cost
o Either you or the manufacturer doesn't have a needed lens in the right focal length
o Smaller file size



Nov 09, 2017 at 04:24 PM
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


I get the crop idea - that's a good explanation.

It takes a bit of educating yourself to sort out the choices of Sony lenses/adapters.

Really, all I wanted was a wide, medium and longer lens for the Sony. I'm stuck on which wide to get as I've already got a 55 and a 135, plenty for my purposes - but there are so many wide choices and it's making me kind of stuck. Normally, I would just get a good 35mm f1.4 and be done.

Don't get me wrong, I love the range of choices but it just has the effect of creating some indecisiveness. Being able to eliminate all crop-factor lenses helps narrow that down.



Nov 09, 2017 at 04:46 PM
Parariss
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?



pasblues wrote:
I get the crop idea - that's a good explanation.

It takes a bit of educating yourself to sort out the choices of Sony lenses/adapters.

Really, all I wanted was a wide, medium and longer lens for the Sony. I'm stuck on which wide to get as I've already got a 55 and a 135, plenty for my purposes - but there are so many wide choices and it's making me kind of stuck. Normally, I would just get a good 35mm f1.4 and be done.

Don't get me wrong, I love the range of choices but it just has
...Show more

If you already have the full frame body and don't yet have the lenses it usually doesn't make much sense to buy any APS-C lenses. So, the real question is which full frame lenses to get, and there are a lot of previous threads discussing 'which 2 lens kit', 'which 3 lens kit', and 'which 4 lens kit'. Some lenses are considered better than others, and each lens already has various review and discussion threads on it.

"Normally, I would just get a good 35mm f1.4 and be done."

Sorry, I don't understand why this situation isn't "normal."

Suggestion: Go to bhphoto.com and pull up product category Photography > Lenses > Mirrorless > Sony E-Mount > Full Frame > Prime > and narrow the focal lengths listed down to the relevant range. You can further prune the list by deciding whether you need autofocus. You can also increase the list by deciding you are willing to use an adapter. Then, you can look into each listed lens to read about their strengths and weaknesses.



Nov 09, 2017 at 06:47 PM
notherenow
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


Sometimes it is just fun.

I do like to experiment and like to try things people tell me wont work (mostly they are right but still...).

Having both APSC and FF mode is very useful and especially for video since you get the same size files in terms of use.

Still photos also give you more choice as well for many uses.

When it comes to lenses, then it makes sense to get the right lenses for the camera and then use those in either FF or APSC without worrying about coverage but sometimes, you might have two or more systems or sensor sizes and have lenses to match. In that case, it can be useful to use what you have.

I have the lenses I want to use for my A7s but can not afford any more now and when I could get a cheap Canon APSC kit lens for free by trading my cheap Nikon APSC kit lens for it, I took it to see how it would go on one of my adapters and surprisingly it covers FF from around 23mm and up (far wider than it is on any Canon camera you can use it on without modifying it I think) and so when I want a cheap (slow) AF 24mm lens that wont be any great loss if anything happens to it, I grab it. It might be more limited on a higher res camera but it might still have its uses as well as being faster to AF on later bodies.

I have sold both my Sony APSC lenses but the 50 1.8 OSS did make a very nice stabilized FF macro lens with 16mm or more of extension tubes.

I use Sony and M43 currently and use some Canon lenses to adapt to both (saves money and some lenses not available to me for either).

M43 lenses can even be adapted to Sony E mount.

While there is no point in doing so for M43 lenses that don't have mechanical aperture and focus and probably not much point if they DO, it can still be fun.

My worst ever "lens" is the focus free Olympus 15mm Body cap lens but it is very cheap and a bit of fun sometimes on M43 and since I had it and my Sony, the adapter (a very thin metal ring) was very cheap so I got one to see.

Ok so I just thought I would shoot out my back window. To show what the field of view is.

A7s and 15mm M43 "lens", FF, APSC, APSC with around 1.1x clear image zoom, FF with 1.7x clear image zoom (I should have used 1.8x).




  ILCE-7S    ---- lens    0mm    f/0.0    1/40s    51200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7S    ---- lens    0mm    f/0.0    1/60s    25600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7S    ---- lens    0mm    f/0.0    1/60s    25600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7S    ---- lens    0mm    f/0.0    1/60s    32000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Nov 09, 2017 at 07:26 PM
Duckysaysquack
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


pasblues wrote:
I get the crop idea - that's a good explanation.

It takes a bit of educating yourself to sort out the choices of Sony lenses/adapters.

Really, all I wanted was a wide, medium and longer lens for the Sony. I'm stuck on which wide to get as I've already got a 55 and a 135, plenty for my purposes - but there are so many wide choices and it's making me kind of stuck. Normally, I would just get a good 35mm f1.4 and be done.

Don't get me wrong, I love the range of choices but it just has
...Show more

If you want something wide but great for street shooting, give the 25mm f2.0 Batis a shot. It's a bit pricey (I bought mine for $1000+) but prices for used have dropped a bit since and it can be found for around 900 these days. If you want something cheap, the 28mm f2.0 Sony is not bad if you can find a well aligned copy. I've owned one that had a decentering problem. However if you can find a good copy, it's around 400+. If you are interested in the ultrawides, the 14mm f2.8 Rokinon is a good choice if you can find a good copy. I was lucky enough to find a good copy and it's wonderful for those tight indoors shots.



Nov 09, 2017 at 10:23 PM
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How do "crop" lenses work on Sony?


If you want something wide but great for street shooting, give the 25mm f2.0 Batis a shot. It's a bit pricey (I bought mine for $1000+) but prices for used have dropped a bit since and it can be found for around 900 these days. If you want something cheap, the 28mm f2.0 Sony is not bad if you can find a well aligned copy. I've owned one that had a decentering problem. However if you can find a good copy, it's around 400+. If you are interested in the ultrawides, the 14mm f2.8 Rokinon is a good choice if you...Show more

The 25mm f2 Batis is the one I have likely settled on.




Nov 09, 2017 at 11:12 PM







FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password