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Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom...
  
 
billsamuels
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


I have Lightroom CC and when I'm finished with a photo, I export it from a raw photo to a jpg, placing it into a file that I can mostly post here on FM, but a lot of times I want to post on other site or email someone.

As soon as I export it and then open it on another photo browser like Microsoft Windows 10's regular photo browser or even if I download it to FM or Facebook and view it thru Firefox, the photo looks very different than the photo that's still in Lightroom. The colors are much more exaggerated than what I did in Lightroom. However, it did take the SAME affects I was seeking in Lightroom and just exaggerated the heck out of it.

So then I have to go back and lower the affects I was seeking in Lightroom and export it again to knock the over-exaggerations down, but in Lightroom, the photo doesn't look that exciting anymore.

So I'm trying to figure out what's happening? Why is there such a difference between what I'm seeing in Lightroom and the post-exported photo? Just as a side-note, I have a good photo-quality NEC monitor and calibrate it regularly with the proprietary X-rite calibration unit and software that you have to get just for the NEC monitors. And if I print from Lightroom, the photo results I get are very close to what the Lightroom photo looks like, it's just something is changing in the export process.

Any ideas?
Thanks.





The sky is much more blue and darker, and the clouds are more exaggerated than what I see in Lightroom




Nov 08, 2017 at 12:54 AM
rdeloe
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Are you working in RAW? When you're working on the image in Lightroom, you're using the Melissa colour space (a close cousin of ProPhoto). That's a much larger colour space than sRGB, which is what the image is using when you export it from Lightroom to a JPEG. During the export Lightroom has to figure out what to do with out of gamut colours.

That's the first thing I'd be looking at. You can "soft proof" for sRGB inside Lightroom. In the Develop module, hit S for soft proof and switch the profile to sRGB. Then make sure you've turned on the out of gamut warning (top, right-hand corner of the histogram -- labelled as "Show destination gamut warning" when you hover over it). Anything in red is out of gamut and could look different when you export the jpeg.



Nov 08, 2017 at 01:56 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Color managed workspace v.s. the Wild West?


Nov 08, 2017 at 01:57 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Maybe try infranview. Set the infranview to use your saved monitor calibration profile.


Nov 08, 2017 at 02:43 AM
John Caldwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Sorry if I missed it: Export your images in sRBG, forget the out of gamut stuff, and your images should look right in the web browser.


Nov 08, 2017 at 03:40 AM
pw-pix
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Are you exporting with a preset?
Maybe adding a lot of sharpening?
Most likely is the colour management issue mentioned above though.



Nov 08, 2017 at 10:29 AM
Alan321
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


1. Export file as an sRGB image, because that's the closest to what most people use, even though nearly all of them won't know what sRGB is.

2. Make sure that the sRGB color profile is built into the exported image file, if the software can do that.

3. View it with software that understands colour management and therefore knows how to use the embedded sRGB colour profile. Firefox can do that but the feature needs to be turned on. Not every Firefox installation will pay attention to colour profiles.

4. If you cannot do (3) then temporarily set your monitor to the sRGB colour space, instead of the superior Adobe RGB colourspace, while you use that colour-dumb software.

5. Most Windows software is colour-dumb. That was true for MS software too, but I don't know about the current Windows 10 MS apps (because I avoid using them).

6. If it still doesn't look right then consider enabling or disabling the NEC colour management program (e.g. SpectraView II) and let the graphics card do the colour management instead of the monitor. They should not both be doing do the colour management at the same time, but that may happen depending on which software is being used.

e.g. My dell monitor has Dell Display Manager that handles colours correctly for any software that it knows about, by automatically adjusting the monitor colour profile and colour space when the software that it knows about is in the active window, but it can mess it up with software that it doesn't know about.



Nov 08, 2017 at 01:05 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Yup, sounds like you're not exporting via sRGB.







Nov 09, 2017 at 03:16 PM
billsamuels
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


rdeloe wrote:
Are you working in RAW? When you're working on the image in Lightroom, you're using the Melissa colour space (a close cousin of ProPhoto). That's a much larger colour space than sRGB, which is what the image is using when you export it from Lightroom to a JPEG. During the export Lightroom has to figure out what to do with out of gamut colours.

That's the first thing I'd be looking at. You can "soft proof" for sRGB inside Lightroom. In the Develop module, hit S for soft proof and switch the profile to sRGB. Then make sure you've turned
...Show more

I never knew what good the soft proof is so maybe I'll try that. I think the export says sRGB, but I'll have to look that up tonight and see if it's saving that as a profile. Thanks.



Nov 09, 2017 at 05:55 PM
billsamuels
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Alan321 wrote:
1. Export file as an sRGB image, because that's the closest to what most people use, even though nearly all of them won't know what sRGB is.

2. Make sure that the sRGB color profile is built into the exported image file, if the software can do that.

3. View it with software that understands colour management and therefore knows how to use the embedded sRGB colour profile. Firefox can do that but the feature needs to be turned on. Not every Firefox installation will pay attention to colour profiles.

4. If you cannot do (3) then temporarily set your monitor to the
...Show more

I think it's within the export feature that's messing up, not necessarily the browser, because I changed computers a few months ago and got a computer w/ a NVDIA Quadro P 600, which is ideal for photography because of the number of colors it can manage.

I never thought of this, but how do I know which unit is managing the colors, the Quadro P600 video board or the NEC monitor? The NEC is a good monitor, but the video card is better than the monitor (someday I'll upgrade the monitor, but I just got it a year ago).



Nov 09, 2017 at 06:12 PM
 

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Alan321
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


My recollection is that if you run the NEC software then it will do the managing. In effect, it will put a dummy change-nothing profile in the graphics card LUT and put the proper change-what-has-to-be-changed profile in the monitor LUT.

However, I said "in effect" because I do not know whether it does exactly what I described, or whether it actually leaves the profile in the graphics card LUT and puts an additional profile in the monitor LUT that undoes whatever the graphics card did, and adds what is really needed to give the best output. The latter would be less confusing for other software and a lot easier for us to get along with, but I have never seen it documented.

Last time I searched for info on this, there was precious little. It doesn't help that I don't presently have access to either my Eizo or my NEC monitors.

In general, the video card is not better than the best monitors because those monitors have 12 or 14-bit internal processing to produce more accurate numbers for their own LUT. They factor in the uniformity corrections, grey scale corrections and colour corrections, then combine them all with high precision (14-bit) and only then squeezes the results into the less precise LUT for actual display. If the calculations were all done in 8 or 10 bit resolution, then the accumulated rounding errors would become more significant.



Nov 10, 2017 at 01:44 PM
Twistedimg
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


I am literally going through this as I type with this new laptop. I edited my first photo with it last night, looked great, exported with the default sRGB, opened it up with the default photo viewer in Win10, and the colors are off. Mainly skin tones are very noticeably orange.

What I've learned is that with this 4k display and all the colors it can create we're seeing the issue with the Win10 viewer. In basic terms, LR is using a huge color space and is calibrated to the profile. The default Win10 photo viewer is not calibrated to the profile and is making up for it by boosting color. The problem isn't LR or the file but simply how the viewer sees it.

I was instructed to test this two ways.

1) Import that JPG right back into LR and do a side by side with the RAW image and the JPG in LR. You'll probably see that they look nearly identical.

2) View the JPG via Chrome which does use color profiles. You'll see it should closely match LR in color.

As I said, I am learning this right now myself. I'm ditching the default win10 viewer in favor of something else. For now I'm using Adobe Bridge to view outside of LR. I'm going to search for something very basic that will work as well. Hope this helps.



Nov 10, 2017 at 11:13 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


This is the most common problem people complain about color wise. It has zero to do with sRGB or whatever RGB color space you convert your file to on output. It has EVERYTHING to do with using a non color managed app to view the images. What you're seeing when the colors are "off" is nothing more than the difference between your monitor's color space and the file's color space. If you converted (as and experiment only) the file to your Monitor Profile and then viewed it in the non color managed viewer, it would look perfect. I really can't believe that in 2017 there are still image viewing apps that are not aware of embedded profiles.


Nov 11, 2017 at 08:16 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Peter Figen wrote:
It has EVERYTHING to do with using a non color managed app to view the images. What you're seeing when the colors are "off" is nothing more than the difference between your monitor's color space and the file's color space. If you converted (as and experiment only) the file to your Monitor Profile and then viewed it in the non color managed viewer, it would look perfect.



Peter,
How would I take a jpg that seems like it's been substantially affected by this problem (colors are exagerated), and convert the file to my Monitor Profile?

I have the software that NEC sells with the x-rite calibration puk, so I assume I could/would use that software to do this?



Nov 13, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


In Photoshop it's a very simple Convert to Profile command. You would not be able to do that in your calibration software. I don't use Lr but it's possible that it might allow you to export into your monitor profile, but I really don't know.


Nov 14, 2017 at 03:47 PM
billsamuels
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Okay, I want to see if I can see the difference using different browsers here on FM. This photo has real exaggerated coloration. I saw this before in a post from a couple of weeks ago when I downloaded here. Let's see what we get using different export profiles:

Display P3
NEC's 272W monitor's profile
NEC's 272W monitor's updated 2017 profile
Pro Photo RGB profile
and finally, the profile I use daily, the "sRGB" profile, which I think is pretty standard.

Let me know if you see any differences between different monitors, and different internet browsers Thanks.
Bill





Display P3 Profile







Profile by NEC using their standard Multisync P272W profile







Profile by NEC using an updated 2017 profile for the Multisync P272W







"ProPhoto RGB" (notice the small "s" is missing before the R)







This is the standard profile that I use all the time, the "sRGB" profile.




Nov 16, 2017 at 07:47 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Pay particular attention to the green areas on the roof, the aquamarine blues on the siding on the left side, and the foliage colors around the mountains above. Also, the sky should be a nice darker blue with the white clouds. I tried to simulate a polarizer filter, but it didn't have one on at the time the photo was taken.

Oddly enough, as I look at the Windows 10 standard desktop folder that these photos are being held in, each photo looks very different from one another. Especially the skies. I used Firefox to download these onto FM and don't see much difference, but I'll look w/ other browsers and tomorrow I'll use my work computer with different HP computers.
Thanks and Thanks for looking,
Bill

Edited on Nov 16, 2017 at 08:54 AM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2017 at 08:49 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Peter Figen wrote:
In Photoshop it's a very simple Convert to Profile command. You would not be able to do that in your calibration software. I don't use Lr but it's possible that it might allow you to export into your monitor profile, but I really don't know.


Peter, I tried this conversion below. What do you think?
Bill



Nov 16, 2017 at 08:49 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Bill, I'm looking at these on an Adobe RGB gamut Eizo CG277 with Safari, which is color managed, and they all look virtually identical here, even looking very closely at the areas you mentioned. This is pretty much what I'd expect. Firefox is the same as well. I don't use Chrome.

"Oddly enough, as I look at the Windows 10 standard desktop folder that these photos are being held in, each photo looks very different from one another. Especially the skies. I used Firefox to download these onto FM and don't see much difference, but I'll look w/ other browsers and tomorrow I'll use my work computer with different HP computers."

I don't think it's "oddly enough". I think it's that the standard Windows viewing is not color managed so that's why you see the diff.

BTW, where the hell is that? It looks like north of Bishop in the Eastern Sierras, but how far north I can't tell.



Nov 16, 2017 at 08:09 PM
billsamuels
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Lightroom Exported photos differs from looks in Lightroom - Why?


Peter Figen wrote:
Bill, I'm looking at these on an Adobe RGB gamut Eizo CG277 with Safari, which is color managed, and they all look virtually identical here, even looking very closely at the areas you mentioned. This is pretty much what I'd expect. Firefox is the same as well. I don't use Chrome.

"Oddly enough, as I look at the Windows 10 standard desktop folder that these photos are being held in, each photo looks very different from one another. Especially the skies. I used Firefox to download these onto FM and don't see much difference, but I'll look w/ other
...Show more

Peter, I noticed the same thing actually. In viewing the photos in the folders, the photos have very different looks, especially the skies. I wonder if the "photos" browser in Windows 10 also doesn't have any color-correction as well.

I think I solved as much as I can because you're correct that I can't reproduce it if I go from certain browsers, but if I use MS's own browsers, everything falls apart.
Thanks for looking into this. I think the lesson is to stay w/ browsers you know and trust. happy shooting!

Bill


Edited on Nov 20, 2017 at 09:11 PM · View previous versions



Nov 20, 2017 at 08:12 AM
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