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Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Bla...
  
 
dolina
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones


GroovyGeek wrote:
This is akin to Kodak blaming their demise on the rise of digital cameras. As Thom Hogan has documented well over the years, Nikon absolutely sucks when it comes to process flow. Trying to sell image quality to the Facebook crowd is completely pointless. Just think what it takes to get an image from a Nikon P&S to social media. Nikon should blame their own myopia, not the rise of smartphones.

It pretty much applies to all camera makers in Japan.

IIRC the 1st camera brand with built-in wireless connectivity was a Samsung in 2012.

I think Canon is still selling cameras that do not have wireless connectivity like Bluetooth, NFC and WiFi.



Nov 01, 2017 at 09:15 AM
glassartist
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones


"But they were the best buggy whips!"


Nov 01, 2017 at 12:36 PM
ytwong
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones


Manufacturing jobs in China is much more expensive than before, especially for electronics industry. Most cell phones are made in China now and that helps to drive up the their cost.

OTOH, Canon is building a semi-automated plant in Japan. That means they see growth in future, and they see automation is better way to control cost than moving to yet another country.



Nov 02, 2017 at 02:14 AM
chip_master
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones


GroovyGeek wrote:
This is akin to Kodak blaming their demise on the rise of digital cameras. As Thom Hogan has documented well over the years, Nikon absolutely sucks when it comes to process flow. Trying to sell image quality to the Facebook crowd is completely pointless. Just think what it takes to get an image from a Nikon P&S to social media. Nikon should blame their own myopia, not the rise of smartphones.


So was Kodak as well as Nikon in the imaging business?

Kodak was in the film business, that died

Nikon are they in the DSLR/P&S business, that is contracting rapidly, now if they see themselves as imaging company then where is the growth and value in that, they should have moved there.

I'd say that Apple and Samsung are leading the imaging charge



Nov 02, 2017 at 04:42 AM
Lance B
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones


GroovyGeek wrote:
This is akin to Kodak blaming their demise on the rise of digital cameras. As Thom Hogan has documented well over the years, Nikon absolutely sucks when it comes to process flow. Trying to sell image quality to the Facebook crowd is completely pointless. Just think what it takes to get an image from a Nikon P&S to social media. Nikon should blame their own myopia, not the rise of smartphones.


Sorry, I just don't get this. Smart phones *are* the reason that P&S cameras etc are on the decline, I see no problem with Nikon blaming that as a cause, it's blatantly obvious. As for "this is akin to Kodak blaming their demise on the rise of digital cameras", that is just a strawman argument. Because one company died due to it's failure to adapt (Kodak) does not follow that every company is doomed to failure due to new and changing technology, that is just a silly statement. Nikon is surviving and surviving well in a declining market. As for Nikon trying to sell image quality to the Facebook crowd, I see no evidence that Nikon is following this path. It seems to me that Nikon are now concentrating on the high end camera not the low end, and as far as I can tell have many of the class leading cameras in the high end market. Isn't it the D850 that they can't keep up supply, just another of Nikon's best selling cameras. Like Mark Twain was supposed to have quipped, "Reports of my death are grossly exaggerated.", this applies to Nikon.



Nov 02, 2017 at 07:03 AM
GroovyGeek
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones



Film ***was*** imaging for all effective purposes. And Kodak made the first ever digital camera. The Bayer filter that all but very few cameras use to record color is named after the Kodak engineer who invented it.

Nikon is not in the dslr business. Until just a few years ago they were selling very healthy amounts of P&S with ever increasing pixel counts and zoom ratios. They are still loosing a sizeable chunk of cash on lithography steppers, a business they once dominated but now barely register in (in terms of leading edge capability).


And in my opinion, you would be wrong. In terms of pure imaging, Nikon wipes the floor with the very best Apple and Samsung are producing. Apple and Samsung are in the process flow business, they make it easy for the masses to snap a decent quality image and get it on social media within 15 seconds. If they competed on the basis of imaging they would loose badly to Nikon and Canon. Ever tried to use an iPhone camera with any kind of zoom? The results are absolutely horrendous. Marginal light? Nope, Apple can't do what even a middle of the range Nikon P&S can do in terms of image quality.


---------------------------------------------

Lance B wrote:
Sorry, I just don't get this. Smart phones *are* the reason that P&S cameras etc are on the decline, I see no problem with Nikon blaming that as a cause, it's blatantly obvious.


Beg to disagree. Yes, smarthphones are the reason P&S camera are in decline, but that has been obvious for a least 5 years yet Nikon has not done anything to counteract that. Sure, they would never compete with the convenience of a smartphone that is always in your pocket. But, if the P&S talked seamlessly to your smartphone with an elegant interface, I am willing to bet that a decent number of people would still be using P&S while on vacation and for situations of high personal value. The reason people don't do it, is because the process flow sucks. And the only one at fault for that on the Nikon side is Nikon.

Lance B wrote:
As for "this is akin to Kodak blaming their demise on the rise of digital cameras", that is just a strawman argument. Because one company died due to it's failure to adapt (Kodak) does not follow that every company is doomed to failure due to new and changing technology, that is just a silly statement.

You just made my point with the above. Nikon P&S is in deep trouble because Nikon (and Canon and Fuji, and Pentax and Sony all other P&S makers) failed to adapt. Claiming otherwise is a "sily statement " :-) Nikon may or may not cease to exist in a decade, but their P&S business will cease to exist within 5 years in any meaningful way.

Lance B wrote:
Nikon is surviving and surviving well in a declining market.

This is exactly what Kodak was telling themselves in the late 90s and early 2000s
http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_173.htm
Note how their stock was up 20% one year, down 20% the next. Enough for them to convince themselves that the bottom was not completely falling out and they were dominating a declining market.

Lance B wrote:
As for Nikon trying to sell image quality to the Facebook crowd, I see no evidence that Nikon is following this path. It seems to me that Nikon are now concentrating on the high end camera not the low end, and as far as I can tell have many of the class leading cameras in the high end market.

Persisting with more and more models of P&S with no attempt to address the process flow issues is the clearest indication that their strategy is to sell image quality. Name one other reason to own a low to mid end P&S nowadays! The high end P&S are a different matter, they are for people like me who want to shoot raw with full manual control and decent image quality if the situation arises while on vacation with the family without having to lug an slr around. The TAM for that is what... 100k units? And note that I only use the P&S for "my" photography. When snapping around with the family I only use the cell phone.

Retreating to high ground is the typical strategy of dying companies. The examples that come to mind in the computer business were Sun, SGI, Cray, IBM. When Intel started making server processors in the mid 90s these companies were lampooning the product. 15 years later Sun and SGI were acquired and eventually written off for a loss, Cray exists as a super-narrow specialist, and IBM continues to sell hardware only as a means of bundling services.

Lance B wrote:
Isn't it the D850 that they can't keep up supply, just another of Nikon's best selling cameras. Like Mark Twain was supposed to have quipped, "Reports of my death are grossly exaggerated.", this applies to Nikon.

Not being able to meet supply can also be an indication of under-investing in manufacturing logistics because of constrained cash-flow due to other sides of the business underperforming. As the image quality of the low-end slrs improves, there will be fewer and fewer people willing to lug around extra 3 lbs for a slightly better image quality. Just browse these forms and see why people are buying mirrorless. Certainly not for the ultimate image quality. Those of us willing to lug a heavy FF body are a dying breed. I recently bought a used D5300 and just ordered a Tokina 11-20. My next trip this weekend will be with the D5300 + Tokina 11-20 + Nikon 70-200/4. The D800 + 14-24 + 80-400 will stay at home. Will I give up image quality? Sure. But I will also give up at least 3 lbs, and that is before you account for the ultra-massive Fotodiox NDs for the 14-24.



Nov 07, 2017 at 06:40 AM