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So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


DavidBM wrote:
Yep; my uniformed guess about the long term plan is that the A9 is a kind of proof of concept for a high speed mirrorless camera, designed as a halo product to silence the "Sony isn't pro because it doesn't have a D5/1DX" crowd. In some ways it's misleading to say the A7rIII has features "borrowed from the A9" as I'm sure all these components and features were designed with both bodies in mind.

To continue uniformed speculation, I imagine that after the 400/2.8 appears we'll gradually get more long glass until a little before the 2010 Tokyo Olympics we'll get
...Show more

Don't we love uninformed speculation?

I see the A9 as a camera ahead its time. Its main features are 20fps without blackout and fast/accurate AF tracking.
Sony targeted it as a sports camera for professionals but the lack of big whites hindered its utility.
So, yes, it showed what Sony is capable of but in practice didn't win pros shooting football, soccer and many olympic sports.

However, this could change with the release of high IQ 400/2.8 and 600/4 native lenses, even without the need for a A9 Mark II.



Oct 31, 2017 at 04:08 AM
pasblues
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


dalite wrote:
_______
My guess is that, if there is a drop in price, and not as soon as ppl would like, is about $200-300. Maybe in late 2018.



That price drop has already happened on the used market. When A9s start selling for under $3400, that's going to be interesting.



Oct 31, 2017 at 04:09 AM
DavidBM
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
Don't we love uninformed speculation?

I see the A9 as a camera ahead its time. Its main features are 20fps without blackout and fast/accurate AF tracking.
Sony targeted it as a sports camera for professionals but the lack of big whites hindered its utility.
.


Sort of agree, but I think it's more Sony *said* they targeted it at sports pros this time round. They aren't stupid: they surely knew there wasn't (yet) enough long glass for most of the pro sports crowd. But there was the advanced amateur's friend for sport and wildlife, the 100-400 category zoom...



Oct 31, 2017 at 04:13 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


DavidBM wrote:
Sort of agree, but I think it's more Sony *said* they targeted it at sports pros this time round. They aren't stupid: they surely knew there wasn't (yet) enough long glass for most of the pro sports crowd. But there was the advanced amateur's friend for sport and wildlife, the 100-400 category zoom...


I would say the 70-200GM was a critical lens for the A9. The 100-400GM is just too slow for low light events.

IMO, Sony is on the right track developing a 400/2.8GM. This lens together with the 70-200/2.8GM (and extenders) could make real pros switch to the Sony system.



Oct 31, 2017 at 04:57 AM
DavidBM
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
I would say the 70-200GM was a critical lens for the A9. The 100-400GM is just too slow for low light events.

IMO, Sony is on the right track developing a 400/2.8GM. This lens together with the 70-200/2.8GM (and extenders) could make real pros switch to the Sony system.


Yep. Add a 4/600, and either a 2.8/300 or 2/200 for the indoor sports crowd and they are golden. I think that's all doable by 2020. And maybe a diffractive optics 300 or 400 for the likes of me....



Oct 31, 2017 at 05:36 AM
nandadevieast
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Does A7r3 has a front LSI and a seperate processor for AF functions?


Oct 31, 2017 at 06:09 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


GMPhotography wrote:
But I wonder how processing speed and FPS really has to do with AF speed on a equal basis. Does one assume these go side by side.


Guy, we don't know that processing speed is related to frames per second and AF speed on a equal basis, but we do know that processing speed is essential for both fps and AF and that in comparison with the A7r II, Sony says that the increase in processing speed for the A7r III is equally related to fps and AF (both are doubled). If that relationship is true and not just marketing spin and the same relationship is there for the A9 vs. the A7r III (both if's that may not be born out in reality), then the A9 should have not only double the fps as the A7r III, but also double the AF speed.

If either the speed boost in AF is a marketing lie (and hey that happens all the time, look how Sony made it look like there was a major increase in DR, which is looking more and more like no increase at all) or the relationship between fps and AF doesn't hold for the comparison between the A7r III and the A9, then the A9 won't be double the AF speed of the A7r III. It seems like a reasonable place for us to start, however, as we set our expectations for AF differences. So, for me my expectation is that the A7r III will have double the AF speed of the A7r II (I will take Sony's word for it until it is proven otherwise) and I expect the A9 has double the AF speed of what the A7r III will have. For my wife who shoots AF all the time, I will probably get her the A9 when we upgrade her A7r II in another year or so as I know she will appreciate the AF speed even if she doesn't need it, whereas for the images she makes not only isn't the increased resolution needed, it isn't something she even appreciates.

For you, if you think that double the AF speed of the A7r II (and half the AF speed of the A9) would be good enough for your work, then I think you should definitely try out the A7r III as it is clear there are times you will need the resolution. On the other hand if half the AF speed of the A9 (or double the AF speed of the A7r II) doesn't sound like enough then if I were you I would I would just keep my A9 and rent an A7r III (or an A7r II if it were fast enough) for those times you need higher resolution. Or perhaps wait another few months and pick up a used A7r II to pair (when they should be going for something like $1,500) with your A9 so that you have both the AF speed for those times you need it and the high resolution for the times you need it and only rent the A7r III for those few times when you need the high resolution paired with the higher frame rate and somewhat faster AF. Only you know if you would use an A7r II enough to justify keeping one around instead of renting one. You could of course do it the other way as well even if the A7r III's AF isn't fast enough for all your work and just rent the A9 for those occasions in which you need the faster AF speed and keep the A7r III. I guess the question you have to ask is whether there are more times you would need the greater resolution of the A7r III or the greater speed of the A9, and for now you can guess the A9 will be about twice as fast in both fps and AF speed as the A7r III.
Just keep in mind that reality may be different, and that you may want to switch up your gear if indeed reality is different. For you, however, that doesn't seem to be a major impediment . I suspect you will want to get the A7r III just to put it through its paces and gain a clear understanding of just how well it works, and that will be great for the rest of us. We will learn a great deal about the camera as you share what you learn.



Oct 31, 2017 at 10:44 AM
GMPhotography
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Thanks Steve. I have a couple options to think about for sure. I did not think about renting the A9 been thinking of the other solutions. That would help me


Oct 31, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


nandadevieast wrote:
Does A7r3 has a front LSI and a seperate processor for AF functions?


It has a front LSI, but I have seen nothing about a separate processor for AF functions.



Oct 31, 2017 at 10:50 AM
stevesanacore
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


I just hope we start getting feedback from the real world before my order is ready to ship. If it's not significantly faster in response, AF, minimal blackout at high speed, etc. I may cancel and buy an A9 after all. The best way is to rent one for a shoot and really see for yourself, but i'm too impatient for that! I didn't jump on the A7R2 in preorder and had to wait months for satisfaction


Oct 31, 2017 at 01:46 PM
 

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Wanny
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Is no one reading/watching these hands on reviews? No one has stated the AF is the same the a7rii, everyone has stated its faster.

Sure Sony invited people to the event, but a lot of the YouTubers/bloggers are pretty credible. Most of the people saying the AF is a lot better, are the same people saying the IQ is the same.



Oct 31, 2017 at 02:00 PM
realVivek
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


All these are Sony sponsored previews/unveiling.

One of the more interesting one that I did watch:






Oct 31, 2017 at 02:11 PM
Wanny
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


That is true, but TCSTV and Tony/Chelsea always give honest opinions and both have been praising it.

Neither of them really liked the a7rii



Oct 31, 2017 at 02:27 PM
realVivek
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


It had no impact on people buying/using, wouldn’t you agree?

Wanny wrote:
Neither of them really liked the a7rii




Oct 31, 2017 at 02:33 PM
Charlie N
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


realVivek wrote:
It had no impact on people buying/using, wouldn’t you agree?



there presence is real and they do have impact on sales to a certain point.

If a few of the bigger names had scathing reviews, it could very well hurt sales. Guys like Casey Neistat can have a large influence on gear, Sony probably throws stuff his way like how canon throws stuff to that other popular canon YT guy (name escapes me). I'm sure canon is also throw gear to Casey, he's got an insane gear collection with tons of redundant bodies



Oct 31, 2017 at 02:58 PM
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


PhilthePhrame wrote:
I think it is the case. I'm waiting for real world experience by "real" photographers before I consider the jump. Way too many fan boys and speculation at this point.



I don't know that that will necessarily be an accurate review. Many 'real' photographers are in some way or the other tied to the product they review. I usually buy something based on my own needs/wants and if the camera/lens meets those on paper, I am willing to put my own money into it. Usually that works out though not always - but then neither does a professional's endorsement. If it is an entirely new product line then it is worth seeing from another's perspective what all those 'features' on paper really mean. However, for a product upgrade like this one, I am happy to buy it simply based on the information put out on the mfg's website.

The A7Riii checks all the boxes for me, My need was for a faster AND more accurate AF, faster fps, silent shooting in continuous mode, better battery lifer. All those are met. Everything else is a bonus. I don't do video so though improved, it is of no use to me.

I've already ordered mine, and the A7Rii will now be on sale here. :-)




Oct 31, 2017 at 03:31 PM
Wanny
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


realVivek wrote:
It had no impact on people buying/using, wouldn’t you agree?



It doesn't have an impact on me, but it most certainly does have an impact.

My point wasn't really referring to the sales though, more so that the camera is much better than the rii in certain aspects.



Oct 31, 2017 at 03:44 PM
sflxn
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Trying to convince myself to not buy the A7Rlll (even though I want it), I've rationalized this. I didn't expect the RIII to come out this year. I expected it a year from now. Would I have been fine with my RII an extra year? Yes. If I believe Sony is updating the R every 2 years, that would have meant an extra year wait for the IV. Would I have waited that extra year for the vast improvements we'll see? Yes. I think I can wait 2 more years for the IV. With the improvements Sony is putting in each generations, the IV should be an absolute wonder.

I really didn't even need to upgrade to the II, but the clacking shutter of the original and lack of IBIS was enough to force the upgrade. The AF joystick and ability to use the menus while it's writing to card are huge improvements but not big enough. I don't believe the IBIS really has improved 1 stop nor the DR has improved 1 stop. It seems like very wishful dreaming, but we'll see soon enough. I also don't think I'm willing to give up play memories apps yet. If those are going away, I may keep the RII permanently and add new cameras in the future. I'm really tired of the constant upgrade/depreciation of new cameras. I've done my share of it for way too long.



Oct 31, 2017 at 05:13 PM
Primus
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Steve Spencer wrote:
Guy, we don't know that processing speed is related to frames per second and AF speed on a equal basis, but we do know that processing speed is essential for both fps and AF and that in comparison with the A7r II, Sony says that the increase in processing speed for the A7r III is equally related to fps and AF (both are doubled). If that relationship is true and not just marketing spin and the same relationship is there for the A9 vs. the A7r III (both if's that may not be born out in reality), then the
...Show more

Thank you, that's a well-reasoned approach.

For me the ideal camera would be an A7Rxxx with the high fps, fast and accurate AF like the A9. IBIS is great too. Everything else (even low battery life) I could live with. I tend to crop into my images and having more pixels to play with helps a lot. Thus I would prefer it to the A9xxx

I carried two A9 bodies and my A7Rii into the field earlier this year. We did a lot of fast action wildlife photography -
shooting gulls and pelicans diving for fish - while jostling for position among 10 other photographers on a small boat that was moving at a good clip and bouncing on the waves in the bay. I found that the A9 is simply superb, so much better than my Canon 1DX MkII would have been in this situation. I was the only Sony user in the group everyone else had Canon or Nikon, mostly top notch gear.

In close up shots, I used the A7RII and sorely missed the quick AF and fps of the A9, there were several shots that I missed. I was using the A9 only at the medium rate and not the high because that gobbles up the card. That was quite enough for terrific action shots.

I do have a query. Assuming the processing power is critical in generating fast fps, given that the A7Riii has twice the file size of the A9 and yet can do 10fps (i.e. half the top speed), does that mean it has the same computing power? If so, wouldn't the AF be just as good then, since it is independent of the pixels on the sensor (same sensor size)? At least that is my understanding.



Oct 31, 2017 at 07:37 PM
Mystik
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Primus wrote:
I do have a query. Assuming the processing power is critical in generating fast fps, given that the A7Riii has twice the file size of the A9 and yet can do 10fps (i.e. half the top speed), does that mean it has the same computing power? If so, wouldn't the AF be just as good then, since it is independent of the pixels on the sensor (same sensor size)? At least that is my understanding.




No. The a9 has a higher density PDAF system. The upgrades to the a7rII's AF system come in the form of improvements to the CDAF system...more CDAF points and greater CDAF sensitivity, but the PDAF system is largely the same because PDAF is a function of the sensor itself and the a7rIII did not get a new sensor.

The a7rII may acquire focus more quickly because the CDAF system, which is software dependent, is faster...but it will not track as well as the a9. You can see how much better the a9 locks onto your subject by how stable the AF points are when tracking.



Edited on Oct 31, 2017 at 09:04 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2017 at 09:02 PM
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