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Archive 2017 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???

  
 
lambers
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Charlie N wrote:
it's already dropping by good amounts.

This is something camera manufacturers were afraid to do, cannibalize on their own sales.

The R2 was so different from the A9, 5 vs 20 fps, 1 fps electronic vs 20 fps electronic, AF driving speed.

R3 on the other hand tops the A9 in mechanical speed, electronic speed is have as fast, has a slightly gimped live view, A9 style AF as proclaimed by sony, dual cards, joystick, battery..... sony did some major improvements that make the R3 basically an A9 light without the ultra FPS and electronic shutter. They're a lot more close
...Show more

I'll wait for real world comparisons shooting sports with fast moving subjects approaching the camera or moving across the frame before I decide.

I have no idea what you mean by A9 style AF. The A9 calculates AF and AE at up to 60 times per second. The only thing Sony have claimed regarding the AF speed of the A7RIII is that it is "up to approximately two times faster under dim lighting conditions" compared to the A7RIII.

And unlike the A9 press event, there was nothing (unless I missed it) in the way of AF tests that really taxed the AF system in the A7RIII other than some dancers and somewhat slow moving subjects in subdued lighting.



Oct 30, 2017 at 07:18 PM
Charlie N
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


lambers wrote:
I'll wait for real world comparisons shooting sports with fast moving subjects approaching the camera or moving across the frame before I decide.

I have no idea what you mean by A9 style AF. The A9 calculates AF and AE at up to 60 times per second. The only thing Sony have claimed regarding the AF speed of the A7RIII is that it is "up to approximately two times faster under dim lighting conditions" compared to the A7RIII.

And unlike the A9 press event, there was nothing (unless I missed it) in the way of AF tests that really taxed
...Show more
it's on their product page:

"AF performance is improved by inheriting the AF performance used in the α9 and applying it optimally, so once the α7R III captures a wild animal that moves unpredictably, it won’t easily let it go."

"The AF algorithm inherited from the α9 accounts for two times more precise* AF tracking for continuous shooting, even of complex or sudden movement."



Oct 30, 2017 at 07:24 PM
dalite
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


pasblues wrote:
There's still crop mode at 18MP - but there's also the A9 which may very well drop price in range of the cost of the new A7RIII. Just a couple thoughts.

_______
My guess is that, if there is a drop in price, and not as soon as ppl would like, is about $200-300. Maybe in late 2018.




Oct 30, 2017 at 07:32 PM
Charlie N
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


dalite wrote:
_______
My guess is that, if there is a drop in price, and not as soon as ppl would like, is about $200-300. Maybe in late 2018.



there are always deals in between, I remember snatching up the A7rii only a few months after release for 2799 or something (usa model sale), that's a good amount of savings. I got the A7rii October 2015 some time.



Oct 30, 2017 at 07:43 PM
ytwong
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Not gonna dump the A7R2. I like some of the improvements in A7R3 but I don't think it offers significant IQ upgrade. Better DR is nice but A7R2 DR is quite good already so I don't feel the rush for upgrade. Plus I don't like the loss of timelapse and smooth reflection app.

Somehow D850 sounds more interesting to me (maybe as my last DSLR?).



Oct 30, 2017 at 08:22 PM
DavidBM
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Anone know if the A7rIII will take the same L plate as an A9?


Oct 30, 2017 at 09:13 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


I would assume so since it takes the A9 vertical grip


Oct 30, 2017 at 09:23 PM
stevesanacore
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Charlie N wrote:
it's already dropping by good amounts.

This is something camera manufacturers were afraid to do, cannibalize on their own sales.

The R2 was so different from the A9, 5 vs 20 fps, 1 fps electronic vs 20 fps electronic, AF driving speed.

R3 on the other hand tops the A9 in mechanical speed, electronic speed is have as fast, has a slightly gimped live view, A9 style AF as proclaimed by sony, dual cards, joystick, battery..... sony did some major improvements that make the R3 basically an A9 light without the ultra FPS and electronic shutter. They're a lot more close
...Show more

I don't think anyone who is shooting sports or weddings with an A9 is going to give it up for the R3. As much as the new camera is improved, it's nowhere near the performance of the A9 from what I've heard and read. There are also many jobs or subjects that you just don't need or want 80MB files, especially at 9 per second. IMO


Edited on Oct 30, 2017 at 09:35 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:31 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


stevesanacore wrote:
I don't think anyone who is shooting sports or weddings with an A9 is going to give it up for the R3. As much as the new camera is improved, it's nowhere near the performance of the A9 from what I've heard and read.


A lot of hobbyists bought the A9 but never really needed the 20 fps or the high electronic shutter scan rate. The A7RIII with higher megapixels and still respectable 10 fps is a better trade off for many of them. This trend has been reflected on the A9 used prices right now.



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:35 PM
stevesanacore
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
A lot of hobbyists bought the A9 but never really needed the 20 fps or the high electronic shutter scan time. The A7RIII with higher megapixels and still respectable 10 fps is a better trade off for many of them. This trend has been reflected on the A9 used prices right now.


Well I guess that's good news for those who still want to buy an A9. Never saw the attraction to the A9 for a hobbyist, I stand corrected!



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:38 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


DavidBM wrote:
Anone know if the A7rIII will take the same L plate as an A9?


I read somewhere that RRS mentioned that the L-component may change but the base plate could stay the same. However, they don't know for sure.



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:45 PM
DavidBM
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
I read somewhere that RRS mentioned that the L-component may change but the base plate could stay the same. However, they don't know for sure.


That makes sense. As @GMphotography pointed out, it takes the same battery grip as A9, so the base component at least would be the same. I guess the ports might be different so that could make a a difference to the side bit.

I might just go with a generic Arca plate until my preferred lighter and vastly cheaper L-brackets from the far east appear....




Oct 30, 2017 at 10:13 PM
lambers
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Charlie N wrote:
it's on their product page:

"AF performance is improved by inheriting the AF performance used in the α9 and applying it optimally, so once the α7R III captures a wild animal that moves unpredictably, it won’t easily let it go."

"The AF algorithm inherited from the α9 accounts for two times more precise* AF tracking for continuous shooting, even of complex or sudden movement."


There's nothing in those statements that refers to AF speed. Only that it is more precise and hangs on better.



Oct 30, 2017 at 10:30 PM
lambers
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
A lot of hobbyists bought the A9 but never really needed the 20 fps or the high electronic shutter scan time.


I would be interested to know how you arrived at this conclusion? I would think a lot more hobbyists bought A7RII's.



Oct 30, 2017 at 10:36 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Tend to agree. Here is what we don’t know if the A9 is X amount faster than the A7rII than 2x faster than the A7RII is really what amount close to the A9. It’s kind of meaningless in in a way. The A7rII is kind of a dog and the A9 flys off the rails. I can’t imagine it’s remotely close to the A9 and this has me worried.

Put another way if the A9 is 10times faster than the A7rII and than 2times faster than the A7rII means very little and not even close to the A9

It’s kind of a marketing trick because there is no true performance numbers to actually go by.

If was in percentages it be easier to judge. Let’s say the A7rIII is 40 percent faster than to me that has more value to go by



Oct 30, 2017 at 10:41 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


lambers wrote:
I would be interested to know how you arrived at this conclusion? I would think a lot more hobbyists bought A7RII's.


The cameras were not released at the same time. Hobbyists bought the A7RII and than years later, those interested in speed, traded it for the A9.

I'm not certain of anything but after the A7RIII was announced the A9 price took a big dive. Some are being offered for $3,600 right now.

Which sport pros are really shooting with the A9? There are no long native lenses for them!



Oct 30, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


GMPhotography wrote:
Tend to agree. Here is what we don’t know if the A9 is X amount faster than the A7rII than 2x faster than the A7RII is really what amount close to the A9. It’s kind of meaningless in in a way. The A7rII is kind of a dog and the A9 flys off the rails. I can’t imagine it’s remotely close to the A9 and this has me worried.

Put another way if the A9 is 10times faster than the A7rII and than 2times faster than the A7rII means very little and not even close to the A9

It’s kind of
...Show more

Here's what we do know Guy. The A7r II shoots at 5 fps, and the A7r III shoots at 10 fps (or twice as fast as the A7r II) and the A9 shoots at 20 fps (or four times as fast as the A7r II and twice as fast as the A7r III). We also know that AF for mirrorless cameras is very dependent on processing power and Sony says their new LSI gets them twice as fast of AF. Now that is consistent with the twice as fast fps, so I think it is credible. So, if processing power for fps is increasing at about the same rate as processing power for fps, then we can make a rough guess that the A9 probably has AF speed that is four times the A7r II and might well be twice as fast as the A7r III--just like fps. That would put the A7r III right between the A7r II and A7r III. That is at least my guess until we learn more from people actually using the camera. It doesn't have to work out that way, but there is at least some logic suggesting that it would.



Oct 30, 2017 at 10:50 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


But I wonder how processing speed and FPS really has to do with AF speed on a equal basis. Does one assume these go side by side.


Oct 30, 2017 at 10:53 PM
DavidBM
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


Fred Miranda wrote:
The cameras were not released at the same time. Hobbyists bought the A7RII and than years later, those interested in speed, traded it for the A9.

I'm not certain of anything but after the A7RIII was announced the A9 price took a big dive. Some are being offered for $3,600 right now.

Which sport pros are really shooting with the A9? There are no long native lenses for them!


Yep; my uniformed guess about the long term plan is that the A9 is a kind of proof of concept for a high speed mirrorless camera, designed as a halo product to silence the "Sony isn't pro because it doesn't have a D5/1DX" crowd. In some ways it's misleading to say the A7rIII has features "borrowed from the A9" as I'm sure all these components and features were designed with both bodies in mind.

To continue uniformed speculation, I imagine that after the 400/2.8 appears we'll gradually get more long glass until a little before the 2010 Tokyo Olympics we'll get an A9II and a lot of money will be spend subsidizing agencies and pros to shoot with Sony kits to polish up that halo, and perhaps actually get some sports pros shooting with the gear (though whether anyone makes money with that, or whether it's a marketing exercise even for CaNikon I don't know)




Oct 30, 2017 at 10:55 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · So everyone is ditching the A7RII for A7RIII ???


I’m just not crazy how this is all worded from the marketing standpoint because it’s just too arbitrary. For me this is a risk.


Oct 30, 2017 at 11:01 PM
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