Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4      
5
       6       end
  

Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...
  
 
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
It is also readily apparent that there is less chroma noise in the PS pushed shadows, too.


Thanks for the test. I would imaging that we may be able to see more noticeable differences with 1:1 crops.
What's the Pentax delay (from shot to shot) when using Pixel shift?



Nov 09, 2017 at 01:15 AM
elimoss
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


On Pentax, the delay between shots is quite minimal. Maybe not much different than slow continuous drive with electronic shutter on.

However, the Sony implementation sounds like it will have an advantage over the Pentax in terms of syncing a flash. I don't think the Pentax will sync at any speed, while it sounds like the Sony will sync at 1/13, which is usable if you shoot product in a dark room.






Nov 09, 2017 at 05:59 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
On Pentax, the delay between shots is quite minimal. Maybe not much different than slow continuous drive with electronic shutter on.

However, the Sony implementation sounds like it will have an advantage over the Pentax in terms of syncing a flash. I don't think the Pentax will sync at any speed, while it sounds like the Sony will sync at 1/13, which is usable if you shoot product in a dark room.


There were early claiming that time between shots would start at 0.5s all the way to 30s. With the final firmware it looks like Sony changed the delay time to 1-30s.

Yes, it seems that flash sync will be at 1/13s and that's indeed useful. Do you know what's the exact delay between shots with the Pentax? Can it be increased similarly to the A7RIII's implementation?



Nov 14, 2017 at 05:39 PM
elimoss
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Pentax has no configurable delay. I would guess it's under 0.5s but I can't think of a good way to measure it accurately.

I suppose the configurable delay will be helpful if you are doing flash at a high power, and need the recycle time between frames. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other reason to up the delay from the minimum.





Nov 14, 2017 at 05:59 PM
Luvwine
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


If using something other than electronic shutter, perhaps a longer delay would be good to allow shutter induced vibrations to settle?


Nov 14, 2017 at 06:20 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Luvwine wrote:
If using something other than electronic shutter, perhaps a longer delay would be good to allow shutter induced vibrations to settle?


It looks like Sony's implementation of pixel shift will only work with 'electronic shutter' and uncompressed.



Nov 14, 2017 at 06:22 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
Pentax has no configurable delay. I would guess it's under 0.5s but I can't think of a good way to measure it accurately.

I suppose the configurable delay will be helpful if you are doing flash at a high power, and need the recycle time between frames. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other reason to up the delay from the minimum.


I would like to see a 0.5s option and wonder if that was ever present in a pre-production model.




Nov 14, 2017 at 06:23 PM
Luvwine
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Fred Miranda wrote:
It looks like Sony's implementation of pixel shift will only work with 'electronic shutter' and uncompressed.


I did not know that. Also odd that it must be uncompressed raw. Oh well. New camera, new workflow I guess.

I have used compressed raw almost all the time and thus can use just a 128 gig card and never get close to filling it. Time to invest in a larger card I guess....

Thanks for the correction.



Nov 14, 2017 at 06:29 PM
elimoss
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Fred Miranda wrote:
I would like to see a 0.5s option and wonder if that was ever present in a pre-production model.



Bill Claff gave me a method for testing the delay. I shot a stopwatch with a 1/1000 shutter speed and then looked at the individual exposures. Pentax K1 had an average delay of 0.26s. I don't think it varies much, if at all, with a longer exposures but I did not test.

Hopefully some developer will make a good anti-ghosting system available, like many HDR programs have, which will help a lot in working with this feature.



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:06 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
Bill Claff gave me a method for testing the delay. I shot a stopwatch with a 1/1000 shutter speed and then looked at the individual exposures. Pentax K1 had an average delay of 0.26s. I don't think it varies much, if at all, with a longer exposures but I did not test.

Hopefully some developer will make a good anti-ghosting system available, like many HDR programs have, which will help a lot in working with this feature.


That's four times quicker than the Sony's delay! I wonder why Sony starts at 1 second...



Nov 15, 2017 at 04:05 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



DavidBM
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's four times quicker than the Sony's delay! I wonder why Sony starts at 1 second...


I donít know: but I do know why they allow *longer* delays. There was an interview in which they said it was to allow for possibly slow flash recycle times...



Nov 15, 2017 at 04:21 AM
elimoss
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...



DavidBM wrote:

I donít know: but I do know why they allow *longer* delays. There was an interview in which they said it was to allow for possibly slow flash recycle times...

Not directed at you, David, but makes me laugh.

30 seconds? In case you have a strobe with a capacitor the size of a washing machine, which you then use for superimposing a Batman calling sign on the moon?



Nov 15, 2017 at 04:32 AM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
Not directed at you, David, but makes me laugh.

30 seconds? In case you have a strobe with a capacitor the size of a washing machine, which you then use for superimposing a Batman calling sign on the moon?



Thatís what he said!

But He didnít say *electronic* flash,


But does it really go to 30 sec? I thought I heard that was a mistake (not sure).



Nov 15, 2017 at 06:07 AM
GMPhotography
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Since your using electronic shutter than strobes will not work. We have to use mechanical shutter. This I believe works only with electronic shutter.


Nov 15, 2017 at 07:20 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


GMPhotography wrote:
Since your using electronic shutter than strobes will not work. We have to use mechanical shutter. This I believe works only with electronic shutter.


Strobes work just fine with an electronic shutter, but the sync speed drops significantly. The A7RII wont let you use a strobe with the ES but there's no reason it wouldn't work (provided your subject was still and ambient light was low).

Sony have also stated that strobes do work with the pixel shift function (and even offer variable delay to leave enough time between captures for recycling).



Nov 15, 2017 at 10:19 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


elimoss wrote:
Bill Claff gave me a method for testing the delay. I shot a stopwatch with a 1/1000 shutter speed and then looked at the individual exposures. Pentax K1 had an average delay of 0.26s. I don't think it varies much, if at all, with a longer exposures but I did not test.


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's four times quicker than the Sony's delay! I wonder why Sony starts at 1 second...


There are three possibilities:


  1. The Sony sensor assembly is heavier, or more lightly damped, thus requires longer to settle.
  2. Sony are being more conservative than Pentax for the settling time.
  3. The Pentax IBIS is closed loop and they can actively hold the sensor in position so don't need to let it settle.




elimoss wrote:
Hopefully some developer will make a good anti-ghosting system available, like many HDR programs have, which will help a lot in working with this feature.


It should be very easy since you can use the two green samples to detect motion.



Nov 15, 2017 at 10:25 AM
GMPhotography
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Matt Grum wrote:
Strobes work just fine with an electronic shutter, but the sync speed drops significantly. The A7RII wont let you use a strobe with the ES but there's no reason it wouldn't work (provided your subject was still and ambient light was low).

Sony have also stated that strobes do work with the pixel shift function (and even offer variable delay to leave enough time between captures for recycling).


The A9 does not shoot with strobe on electronic. It will on auto. Maybe they changed something or Iím confused on it.



Nov 15, 2017 at 12:58 PM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


GMPhotography wrote:
The A9 does not shoot with strobe on electronic. It will on auto. Maybe they changed something or Iím confused on it.


Yeah they changed it but probably just for pixel shift mode.



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:41 PM
GMPhotography
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Okay that must be it


Nov 15, 2017 at 02:04 PM
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Pixel shift and lens testing thoughts...


Yes, these are the limitations for ES on the A7RIII:

When [Silent Shooting] is set to [On], the following functions are not available:
-Flash shooting
-Auto HDR
-Picture Effect
-Picture Profile
-Long Exposure NR
-e-Front Curtain Shut.
-BULB shooting
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001211759.html

And for pixel shift;

In [Px. Shift Multi Shoot.], some settings are locked as follows:
-[File Format]: [RAW]
-[RAW File Type]: [Uncompressed]
-[Silent Shooting]: [On]
In [Px. Shift Multi Shoot.], you cannot perform bulb shooting.
If shooting is set to a mode other than P/A/S/M, you cannot perform [Px. Shift Multi Shoot.].
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001552918.html



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:42 PM
1       2       3       4      
5
       6       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4      
5
       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password