Archive 2017 · Large DAS Options

jrulison
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Large DAS Options

Anyone have good suggestions for a large external DAS solution? Now that I have gone up to a larger sensor camera 45 MP my files are huge and my storage is filling up fast. Currently I use two different 8 Terabyte drive systems and import my photos to both locations so that I have a backup. I would like to move to a larger DAS solution with RAID. Currently I am looking at a Mobius™ 5-Bay RAID Hard Drive Enclosure. I will load it with 5x10 TB Seagate Iron Wolf drives passing on the pro versions as with the RAID 5 I shouldn't need the disaster recovery software. I don't want to break the bank here at the LACiE solutions are off the charts expensive but I am certainly up to hear first hands experiences with any solution.

Best,
JR

Oct 25, 2017 at 12:56 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Large DAS Options

The cheap, firmware-based "RAID 5" systems are not so good in practice. Most of them are based on SATA port multipliers and have no real processor. A bridge is used to connect the SATA to USB if not run in native eSATA mode.

I suggest a true NAS, which can be used in a separate network to keep it as a DAS if you like. You can also build a storage server, e.g., using FreeNAS. In any case, 5x10TB drives in RAID 5 is at risk for a second drive failure during resilvering. I would use RAID 6 (Z2), especially if the data is not readily restorable, i.e., there is no other copy on a more reliable system. I have multiple NAS, each with RAID 6, plus offsite backups because failures or disasters can happen. The true purpose of RAID (other than 0) is availability in the event of a drive failure. Do not assume that other failures will not occur. A low-end, poorly configured RAID system might be less reliable than a single drive for example.

EBH

Oct 25, 2017 at 07:04 PM

dgdg
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Large DAS Options

What OS do you have?
Windows Storage Spaces can take several individual disks and create a software raid array from it. No need for proprietary enclosures. It is compatible with any windows system you plug it into. If you don't need NAS, I'd keep it simple.

Oct 25, 2017 at 07:41 PM

jrulison
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Large DAS Options

This was really helpful. I have looked at RAID 6 before but the downside there is you loose an awful lot of storage. That said I might go that route anyways. As for the NAS that's a tremendous slowdown in performance when connecting to a network. For example I use a MAC which means I have to use an adapter to go hardline which is not necessary a bad thing but then I also have to put in place a Gigabit switch in place as well to help with the performance. Have you used any of the Synergy NAS systems? I definitely want to look at a long term solution so everything is on the table at this point. For your offsite backup are you using cloud storage and if you don't mind me asking who are you using? I looked at cloud solutions in the past and when you go to above 4-5 TB of storage for a business it's very expensive.

Thanks again for the response.

EB-1 wrote:
The cheap, firmware-based "RAID 5" systems are not so good in practice. Most of them are based on SATA port multipliers and have no real processor. A bridge is used to connect the SATA to USB if not run in native eSATA mode.

I suggest a true NAS, which can be used in a separate network to keep it as a DAS if you like. You can also build a storage server, e.g., using FreeNAS. In any case, 5x10TB drives in RAID 5 is at risk for a second drive failure during resilvering. I would use RAID 6 (Z2), especially...Show more →

Oct 26, 2017 at 07:51 AM

jrulison
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Large DAS Options

dgdg wrote:
What OS do you have?
Windows Storage Spaces can take several individual disks and create a software raid array from it. No need for proprietary enclosures. It is compatible with any windows system you plug it into. If you don't need NAS, I'd keep it simple.

Thanks, I am using MAC.

Oct 26, 2017 at 07:52 AM

mrgetalife
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Large DAS Options

You want to go with QNAP or Synology. Both brands offer ways to duplicate each other automatically or on schedule. They'll also have built in connections to various cloud services for backup too.

They cost a lot more then you were looking for. But ease of setup and reliability are top notch.

Oct 26, 2017 at 02:08 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Large DAS Options

EB-1 wrote:
The cheap, firmware-based "RAID 5" systems are not so good in practice. Most of them are based on SATA port multipliers and have no real processor. A bridge is used to connect the SATA to USB if not run in native eSATA mode.

I suggest a true NAS, which can be used in a separate network to keep it as a DAS if you like. You can also build a storage server, e.g., using FreeNAS. In any case, 5x10TB drives in RAID 5 is at risk for a second drive failure during resilvering. I would use RAID 6 (Z2), especially...Show more →
jrulison wrote:
This was really helpful. I have looked at RAID 6 before but the downside there is you loose an awful lot of storage. That said I might go that route anyways. As for the NAS that's a tremendous slowdown in performance when connecting to a network. For example I use a MAC which means I have to use an adapter to go hardline which is not necessary a bad thing but then I also have to put in place a Gigabit switch in place as well to help with the performance. Have you used any of the Synergy NAS systems?...Show more →

I have 3 Synology and one QNAP NAS. The two best ones (an 8-bay and a 12-bay) have the 10GbE SFP+ ports. One NAS is the backup for the other and they are direct connected to two main computers with 10GbE adapters. (I can connect to other computers with GbE as well if needed.) I always isolate NAS from the internet network. Backups are manual with physical bulk drives in another state and differentials on SSDs, which creates some risk if I don't backup often enough.

You would probably want a NAS with the Thunderbowls for the Mac.

EBH

Oct 26, 2017 at 10:46 PM

15Bit
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Large DAS Options

I would agree with EB-1 - if you're moving up to that sort of storage capacity you should do it right. Don't go with a cheap lower end consumer NAS.

Building your own is a good option if you have the technical know-how to do it and maintain it. Certainly cheaper than a commercial NAS once you move to a large number drives (though probably not for 5 drives), but you'll likely have to do without hotswap cages and the associated convenience in the event of failure. The other advantage to a proper home built server is that you can have a duplicate box in another location and script the backups and synchronisations as you want them, using encrypted connections and such. A server also offers the opportunity to add a tape drive for offline backups. A bit fiddly to use, but more robust than any other option and more economic than hard drives once you get to >40Tb requirement.

Consider carefully the nature of your arrays - RAID is primarily an uptime solution. You can't do without backups. And as long as you have proper backups a RAID 5 is completely OK over a RAID 6. You just have a higher risk of downtime (if 2 drives fail together). If you absolutely can't afford any downtime then go with a RAID 6.

Oct 27, 2017 at 02:54 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Large DAS Options

5x10TB in a DS1517+ or similar would be fine for most users that have a solid backup plan.

I just don't find a 5-bay NAS to be the most efficient compared to an 8-bay version for not much more money. RAID 6 works well in an 8-bay NAS since it is still 75% space efficient. I've also run 5x RAID 5 plus 3x RAID 5 in an 8-bay where the arrays had to be different.

EBH

Oct 28, 2017 at 04:39 PM

Paul Mo
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Large DAS Options

When it comes to precious data I would not recommend DIY to most people.

Just buy a Synology.

FreeNAS, OpenMediaVault and the like are, in my experience, too much trouble - they are for the tinkerer.

Keep it simple and clean.

Oct 28, 2017 at 07:17 PM


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