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Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening
  
 
PhilPDX
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


chez wrote:
I used punch cards on mainframes back in the 70’s...


Yes, I remember those times in the early 70's as well. Almost half a century ago...

-Phil



Nov 14, 2017 at 11:03 PM
butchM
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


charlyw wrote:
Or the purchased version decides to not like the next version of your operating system and ceases to function altogether (a good example are Luminar and CO which both required maintenance releases to work on the latest operating system releases) and because of the moronic stance of “not rewarding the developer for his work” you may have driven the developer out of business... Then you are truly screwed, your knowledge has just gone with with wind, your previous developments are no longer available and you need to find a replacement. Sorry but face it, either be prepared to “reward the
...Show more

Pure unadulterated poppycock ... or reverse FUD if you will ...

What is 'moronic' is anyone who expects that software developers should get a pass in the free enterprise system. Create works that provide commensurate value for the price incurred, the world will beat a path to your door. Puddle around and produce little to nothing and you reap what you sow. No one is entitled to an income if they don't produce something of value. Period.

If a business fails because they can't compete in the market place based upon merit ... then maybe they chose the wrong field of endeavor. Then, yes, we'd have to look for an alternative.



Nov 15, 2017 at 12:03 AM
chez
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


Can we make an effort to stick to the topic rather than yet another subscription versus permanent license debacle. We’ve had enough of these, everyone said their piece.. now just make your choice and move on rather than polluting yet another thread.

Personally I use Nik for sharpening both for web and printing. Does a good job and is very flexible.



Nov 15, 2017 at 12:29 AM
butchM
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


chez wrote:
Can we make an effort to stick to the topic rather than yet another subscription versus permanent license debacle. We’ve had enough of these, everyone said their piece.. now just make your choice and move on rather than polluting yet another thread.

Personally I use Nik for sharpening both for web and printing. Does a good job and is very flexible.


Sure ... but this comment sorta indicated it was ok to be off topic.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1513528/1#14253760

... or perhaps you could have brought up the 'keep on topic' advice to charlyw way back on the third comment of the first page ...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1513528/0#14221369



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:22 AM
chez
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


butchM wrote:
Sure ... but this comment sorta indicated it was ok to be off topic.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1513528/1#14253760

... or perhaps you could have brought up the 'keep on topic' advice to charlyw way back on the third comment of the first page ...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1513528/0#14221369


Yes Butch...of course you are always right. Now please just focus on the topic and not any other hidden agendas here.



Nov 15, 2017 at 01:43 AM
butchM
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


chez wrote:
Yes Butch...of course you are always right. Now please just focus on the topic and not any other hidden agendas here.


Sure ... I mostly use the Export sharpening in Lightroom for 99% of web destined work and most of my personal inkjet printing. I use the PhotoKit Sharpener 2 Ps plugin (which is the same algorithms for the sharpening tools in Lr) from Pixel Genius for any finer detailed control and anything destined for CMYK offset printing.

Though I do wonder what Nik users are going to do if Google ever drops further development of those tools ... oh wait ...



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:09 AM
chez
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


butchM wrote:
Sure ... I mostly use the Export sharpening in Lightroom for 99% of web destined work and most of my personal inkjet printing. I use the PhotoKit Sharpener 2 Ps plugin (which is the same algorithms for the sharpening tools in Lr) from Pixel Genius for any finer detailed control and anything destined for CMYK offset printing.

Though I do wonder what Nik users are going to do if Google ever drops further development of those tools ... oh wait ...


Oh...don't lose any sleep over Nik since you don't use it...best to just worry about what YOU actually use. It's been acquired by others that have interest in advancing the product.



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:35 AM
butchM
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


chez wrote:
..best to just worry about what YOU actually use.


Sounds like good advice ... folks should practice what they preach



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:50 AM
bushwacker
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening




chez wrote:
Can we make an effort to stick to the topic rather than yet another subscription versus permanent license debacle. We’ve had enough of these, everyone said their piece.. now just make your choice and move on rather than polluting yet another thread.

Personally I use Nik for sharpening both for web and printing. Does a good job and is very flexible.




I am beginning to like this C1... I am currently on 30 day trial.... by the way the Sony only version is it only $50 bucks full version?




Nov 15, 2017 at 01:05 PM
Zenon Char
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


LR has the Masking slider which is a powerful tool and the clarity slider which boosts mid-tone contrast.

Depending on how low the ISO is and how good the exposure the Detail slider has two jobs. From 0-50 it suppresses halos and from 50 - 100 it goes into deconvolution so you get more a more crisper finish during capture sharpening but you lose halo suppression.

If you get those 3, the sharpening and NR slider soup mixed right it can produce very pleasing results.



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:10 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



gdanmitchell
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


Zenon Char wrote:
LR has the Masking slider which is a powerful tool and the clarity slider which boosts mid-tone contrast.

Depending on how low the ISO is and how good the exposure the Detail slider has two jobs. From 0-50 it suppresses halos and from 50 - 100 it goes into deconvolution so you get more a more crisper finish during capture sharpening but you lose halo suppression.

If you get those 3, the sharpening and NR slider soup mixed right it can produce very pleasing results.


FWIW, if you understand what the various sharpening settings on the Adobe products actually do, they are extraordinarily powerful.

For folks who mostly restrict themselves to moving a "sharpness" fader, not so much. ;-)

Dan



Nov 15, 2017 at 02:59 PM
butchM
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


gdanmitchell wrote:
FWIW, if you understand what the various sharpening settings on the Adobe products actually do, they are extraordinarily powerful.

For folks who mostly restrict themselves to moving a "sharpness" fader, not so much. ;-)

Dan


Except when it comes to output sharpening when exporting or printing directly from Lightroom for images that have only been sharpened within Lightroom.

The export/print sharpening that can be applied within Lightroom are quite good, but do not offer the same level of personal adjustment as you and Zenon have described when adjusting capture sharpening using the Detail panel of the Develop module. Many users require a more detailed control over this aspect and utilize Ps actions and or third party plugins in lieu of the canned 'High' - 'Standard' - 'Low' options currently available in Lr for output sharpening.

Why Adobe has never pursued a more powerful sharpening option for Export or Print has been a disappointment for many users.



Nov 15, 2017 at 03:28 PM
Zenon Char
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


That is another thing. It took a few years to warm up to LR because I did not have total control during at export. After 10 years of PS and creating my own resizing actions I just had a tough time.

The more I work with LR the more I appreciate it. Even on High for screen it just doesn't overcook unless you do that in capture sharpening. Every image is different and if I need a little more kick I can polish it off in PS but I rarely do.

I'm not trying to promote LR as I don't care what anyone uses but as I explored this I learned the PixelGenius group developed the export sharpening for Adobe so I'm there is more going on than just sharpening. Then I learned that they also worked on the Detail page which makes sense and there may be more. The late great Bruce Fraser who basically invented the 3 phases of sharpening was and Jeff Schewe is a member. Colour guy Andrew Rodney - the Digital Dog is also a member.

Some pretty big industry names. Not to say that Capture or others don't have excellent people. Sometimes fresh blood is better.

Like Dan said LR has some powerful tools if you take the time. Capture is more aggressive but you have other things to deal with from that. I was impressed but not $300 and a pending upgrade impressed. I felt I could keep up with LR and PS of I needed to but I don't have tech years of experience with it.

Also I'm finding there are colour complaints with LR. Yeah if you use Adobe Standard. Capture looks great out of the box. With Adobe selecting a camera profile is a simple fix or creating you own profile with passport, etc takes care of that.

Like I said I'm not dedicated and I could walk away from Adobe today. I may one day. If LR7 had forced me into the cloud I would have gone with Capture.



Nov 15, 2017 at 05:10 PM
butchM
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


Zenon Char wrote:
The late great Bruce Fraser who basically invented the 3 phases of sharpening was and Jeff Schewe is a member. Colour guy Andrew Rodney - the Digital Dog is also a member.


Not to nitpick nor is their a bigger fan of Bruce Fraser's work than myself ... but ... Bruce did not 'invent' the three phases of sharpening ... there were folks applying similar methods before Fraser ... he brought the methodology, clarification and deep reasoning backed by empirical evidence to demonstrate the advantages of those steps when he and his fellow Pixel Geniuses brought it to the open market.



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:06 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


^^^

Commenting here on both of the previous posts.

Regarding output sharpening (and especially print sharpening), this is one reason that I still prefer to use Photoshop rather than Lightroom. (Admittedly, the other reason is simply that my instincts are for Photoshop and releasing LR has not yet worked for me. I've used it for some projects, including one really big one, but I kept finding myself back in Photoshop. That may say more about me than about LR... ;-)

In any case, I often vary my output sharpening at the print stage depending on a bunch of stuff that is specific to the print, and I like the control I have over that in Photoshop.

I'm not the only one. I know a number of folks who are meticulous about their printing practices who work in LR but then frequently print from Photoshop. I even know one highly-regarded photographer and printer who will — wait for it! — sometimes...

... do raw conversion in Capture One, post-process in Light Room, and print from Photoshop!

To be honest about this, very few folks will work at that particular photographer's level of technical understanding or esthetic skill, and going to such extremes is rarely necessary. For my part, I'm happy to work almost entirely in Photoshop (ACR/Bridge), with an occasional foray into LR to sort and rate things or because I just want to understand the environment better. Most folks will be totally happy just working in LR. And there are others will alternate approaches...

Dan



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:08 PM
Zenon Char
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


butchM wrote:
Not to nitpick nor is their a bigger fan of Bruce Fraser's work than myself ... but ... Bruce did not 'invent' the three phases of sharpening ... there were folks applying similar methods before Fraser ... he brought the methodology, clarification and deep reasoning backed by empirical evidence to demonstrate the advantages of those steps when he and his fellow Pixel Geniuses brought it to the open market.


Not at all. Thanks for the info. I don't know a lot about it besides snippets I have read here and there soI admit I don't know a lot of details. Now I no more and will keep that in my hip pocket



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:27 PM
Zenon Char
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


gdanmitchell wrote:
^^^

Commenting here on both of the previous posts.

Regarding output sharpening (and especially print sharpening), this is one reason that I still prefer to use Photoshop rather than Lightroom. (Admittedly, the other reason is simply that my instincts are for Photoshop and releasing LR has not yet worked for me. I've used it for some projects, including one really big one, but I kept finding myself back in Photoshop. That may say more about me than about LR... ;-)

In any case, I often vary my output sharpening at the print stage depending on a bunch of stuff that is specific to
...Show more

That is one heck of a process. I used PS exclusively for my hobby shots. I only got LR for event photography as it made life a lot easier. Did some print tests with a local printer and created the workflow. I have been using this method in PS for export sharpening for years. I created resizing and sharpening actions using it.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/photoshop-really-smart-sharpening.html?search=edge+mask&bool=and

I just started to use LR more in the last 6 months for my hobby shots. Additional editing PS if it needs it. I also use DPP once in a while.

The biggest change for me was I got rid of many 3rd party plugins for NR, etc. I only have a few for B&W and I'm happy to work with Adobe's offerings.



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:38 PM
R.H. Johnson
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


Dan, LFP has forced me to change my workflow in PP. i'm still in research mode. thus far i'm experimenting with raw conversion in DPP4, post-processed in DxO, and print from Photoshop CS6 with output sharpening in the NIK tools and print with Print Studio Pro plugin on a Canon Pro4000.

has any of your people compared Capture One To DxO for post processing in the print workflow? i highly regard you and your buds commentary because you guys are accomplished hands on LF printers.

as a matter of fact i regard your knowledge to the degree that i did this:



http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1497743/3

good day.....



Nov 15, 2017 at 08:03 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


R.H. Johnson wrote:
as a matter of fact i regard your knowledge to the degree that i....


Interesting. Hadn't seen that. I appreciate your concern. And I added a final note (he writes, ever optimistically) to that thread to try to tie up the loose ends. :-)

Dan


Edited on Nov 15, 2017 at 09:40 PM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2017 at 09:34 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Question: LR sharpening vs Capture One sharpening


Zenon Char wrote:
That is one heck of a process. I used PS exclusively for my hobby shots. I only got LR for event photography as it made life a lot easier. Did some print tests with a local printer and created the workflow. I have been using this method in PS for export sharpening for years. I created resizing and sharpening actions using it.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/photoshop-really-smart-sharpening.html?search=edge+mask&bool=and

I just started to use LR more in the last 6 months for my hobby shots. Additional editing PS if it needs it. I also use DPP once in a while.

The biggest change for me
...Show more

Creating actions has been key to my work in Photoshop. It makes a ton of the otherwise-repetitive tasks simple and (nearly) automatic in many cases.

Like you, I've gotten rid of third party plugins. There was a time when we needed quite a few of them in Photoshop, but I no longer find myself needing any of them.

I acknowledge that I'm an anomaly when it comes to not embracing Lightroom. In fact, it is kind of a standing joke among my photography friends and colleagues who do rely on it a lot. I tried to move my workflow to LR several times, including one three-year project photographing professional classical musicians. I decided that I would make myself use LR for that entire project, and I mostly did. I discovered that it is a better environment for sorting, rating, and otherwise managing photographic assets. But then I discovered that little menu item that lets one open the LR file in Photoshop...

Dan



Nov 15, 2017 at 09:39 PM
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