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Adobe announces new Lightroom products
  
 
PhilPDX
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p.31 #1 · p.31 #1 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


Nick Birkett wrote:
...at a core level, the cloud approach is switching from a distributed computing model to a centralized one, removing my independence and control over my electronic footprint, etc.


Exactly, and this is (amongst other reasons) why I objected to Charles' claim that "only an idiot wouldn‘t go with the times" when it comes to cloud integration.

-Phil



Oct 30, 2017 at 03:07 PM
charlyw
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p.31 #2 · p.31 #2 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


PhilPDX wrote:
Exactly, and this is (amongst other reasons) why I objected to Charles' claim that "only an idiot wouldn‘t go with the times" when it comes to cloud integration.

-Phil


Then you maybe should reconsider participating in this or other forums, they have a much more widespread impact on your electronic footprint than having your images stored on someone else's storage. With Windows 10 being as intrusive as it is your home computer is no less public than a server in Adobe's server farm (but much more vulnerable)...



Oct 30, 2017 at 03:18 PM
PhilPDX
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p.31 #3 · p.31 #3 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


charlyw wrote:
...they have a much more widespread impact on your electronic footprint than having your images stored on someone else's storage.


Ever heard of a VPN?

I believe that "The Cloud" is a simple marketing scam. They are trying to sell you ideas from the stone age as something new and exciting while at the same time locking you in and overcharging you at every opportunity. Once the software industry, ISPs and cell phone carriers fully control the way you do your everyday computing, they will milk you even more than they do now and laugh all the way to the bank. Guaranteed. And while they laugh, they'll sell your data to the highest bidder or hand it over to the government.

charlyw wrote:
With Windows 10 being as intrusive ...


Oh please, it's only intrusive if you don't know how to stop it.


-Phil




Oct 30, 2017 at 03:51 PM
charlyw
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p.31 #4 · p.31 #4 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


PhilPDX wrote:
Oh please, it's only intrusive if you don't know how to stop it.


Oh please, I am a software developer with more than 30 years experience - and there is no stopping the intrusive nature of Windows 10 - so much so that in my country the data protection laws prohibit the use of the non-enterprise version of it in some critical areas like health service...



Oct 30, 2017 at 04:03 PM
rdeloe
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p.31 #5 · p.31 #5 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


I really noticed the speed improvement in creation of 1:1 previews that this site reports.

Paul Mo wrote:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Lightroom-Classic-CC-is-it-faster-than-CC-2015-1065/





Oct 30, 2017 at 04:50 PM
PV Hiker
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p.31 #6 · p.31 #6 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


Received a emailed Outdoor Photographer and has a link to explaining classic CC and CC versions.

https://www.outdoorphotographer.com/lightroom-cc-vs-lightroom-classic/



Oct 31, 2017 at 04:43 AM
Zenon Char
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p.31 #7 · p.31 #7 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


From that article.

You are not forced to use the cloud service, and for $9.99 a month, you can get Lightroom Classic CC, Lightroom CC, and Photoshop. That’s a smokin’ deal.

And you get a free website.



Oct 31, 2017 at 05:37 AM
melcat
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p.31 #8 · p.31 #8 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


Nick Birkett wrote:

My major complaint about Adobe over the recent release has been around their refusal to give users of the new cloud-based LR CC control over which of their images are to be stored in the cloud.


I suspect, like Apple, they think the average user doesn't understand folder and file names and doesn't do backups. That is quite liklely to be true for many users, but probably not for professional photographers. Going back at least a century, catalogueing, archiving and (in some cases) duplicating images has been a part of what photographers did. We are well into the digital era and photgraphers do mostly have this sorted out. It's hard to see what value Adobe are offering here.

For someone who doesn't understand file management, taking away this control is actually a benefit.



Oct 31, 2017 at 09:29 AM
Nick Birkett
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p.31 #9 · p.31 #9 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


melcat wrote:
I suspect, like Apple, they think the average user doesn't understand folder and file names and doesn't do backups. That is quite liklely to be true for many users, but probably not for professional photographers. Going back at least a century, catalogueing, archiving and (in some cases) duplicating images has been a part of what photographers did. We are well into the digital era and photgraphers do mostly have this sorted out. It's hard to see what value Adobe are offering here.

For someone who doesn't understand file management, taking away this control is actually a benefit.

For many people, what you say is likely true. But, that doesn't mean that the software should prevent more advanced users from being able to make their own choice. Adobe could set the default to be 'upload all' while providing an easily visible and accessible method for advanced users to change away from that option.

Being an educator by profession, I would much rather take the view that people should be learning about folders, etc. It really isn't that hard.



Oct 31, 2017 at 11:16 AM
cputeq
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p.31 #10 · p.31 #10 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


melcat wrote:
I suspect, like Apple, they think the average user doesn't understand folder and file names and doesn't do backups.


I think the average user understands folders and files just fine, since there are physical examples of that in every office.

The problem is, Apple obfuscates the folder/file process in most of their apps or eliminates it completely.

I understand Apple's approach (force the user to work in logical modes, like "Moments" or "Projects" instead of worrying about where files are), but some people like the granular approach of managing their own file structures.

I'd argue once a user understands basic file/folder hierarchies, they can logically manage their libraries much better than the cloud or logic methodology Apple (and probably Adobe) seem to be pursuing.

YMMV I guess. To me, Apple's method of managing songs (via iTunes) and video projects in iMovie are actually more confusing to me than just letting me work with the damn files!

I really like how Adobe currently does their (local) file management -- they let you work with files and folders and ALSO organize via different projects etc (same with Capture 1).







Oct 31, 2017 at 01:41 PM
 

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Zenon Char
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p.31 #11 · p.31 #11 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


melcat wrote:
I suspect, like Apple, they think the average user doesn't understand folder and file names and doesn't do backups. That is quite liklely to be true for many users, but probably not for professional photographers. Going back at least a century, catalogueing, archiving and (in some cases) duplicating images has been a part of what photographers did. We are well into the digital era and photgraphers do mostly have this sorted out. It's hard to see what value Adobe are offering here.

For someone who doesn't understand file management, taking away this control is actually a benefit.


Funny Adobe would think that. Computers have been around for a while so even us fossils have figured them out. I'm far better setting up a folder systems, maintaining and backing up than I ever was in the paper days. My paper record keeping was awful. I'm sure there is a percentage that just never cared to learn about it.



Oct 31, 2017 at 02:41 PM
gdsf2
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p.31 #12 · p.31 #12 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


charlyw wrote:
contrary to you I have been around when mainframes were still programmed using punch cards - and the situation is far from comparable...


Actually, the situation is very comparable. I remember when the move away from mainframes happened. It was called distributed computing. It was the new idea that at a university everyone would have thier own computer and they would be linked together by a network. Processing and storage would happen locally. Now, 25 years later, the IT world has found it is impossible and expensive to secure and maintain a distributed computing environment. So, the move now is towards the cloud where storage and processsing is centralized.

For example, for work, I use an Amazon AWS workstation. My laptop is simply a terminal (screen and keyboard) that connects to a virtual PC on an AWS server. Just like in the old days we had a terminal that connected us to the mainframe.

What is old is new again.



Oct 31, 2017 at 03:47 PM
15Bit
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p.31 #13 · p.31 #13 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


gdsf2 wrote:
What is old is new again.

As are the old problems - thin clients need decent bandwidth and low latency. That's now achievable on a LAN for sure, but not from very many folk's home connections.



Oct 31, 2017 at 06:11 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.31 #14 · p.31 #14 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


Backing up as a centralized service is ok, though I would be happy to trust my backups entirely on someone else simply because people (who run the backups and maintain the scripts and hardware that make them) can make mistakes and may forget or simply not care enough about someone else’s data.

I do most of my day to day work on a laptop because I find the delays in accessing data over a network and the lack of control over the computing environment (in a centralized IT framework) sometimes difficult to work with. I also want to be able to work from home and access the data and software I working on at home so I use the laptop. Network storage of data is ok if there is no performance requirement. However, often there is a need to process large quantities of data in a reasonable time so the data is locally stored with the computer, at least temporarily.

The world isn’t moving away from distributed computing. Homes contain lots of devices which have a lot of processing power that simply didn’t exist 20 years ago. People carry small computers in their pockets and they are not mere terminals. TVs, mobile phones, tablets, laptops, desktops, and cars all have a lot of processing capability.

If anything I have to ask if the planet can take this amount of computing. The consumption of electricity that is related to computing is huge.



Oct 31, 2017 at 06:42 PM
gdsf2
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p.31 #15 · p.31 #15 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


15Bit wrote:
As are the old problems - thin clients need decent bandwidth and low latency. That's now achievable on a LAN for sure, but not from very many folk's home connections.


Actually, at least with Amazon’s remote client software, very little bandwidth is required. Even works well via cellular. Pretty cool stuff.



Nov 01, 2017 at 03:08 AM
gdsf2
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p.31 #16 · p.31 #16 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Backing up as a centralized service is ok, though I would be happy to trust my backups entirely on someone else simply because people (who run the backups and maintain the scripts and hardware that make them) can make mistakes and may forget or simply not care enough about someone else’s data.

I do most of my day to day work on a laptop because I find the delays in accessing data over a network and the lack of control over the computing environment (in a centralized IT framework) sometimes difficult to work with. I also want to be able to
...Show more

I don’t know about the world, but in the US, corporations and governments are most certainly moving towards centralized computing. There is simply no doubt to this.



Nov 01, 2017 at 03:12 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.31 #17 · p.31 #17 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


It may be the case in corporations and governments. In my surroundings, computing is getting more and more diverse, with many more devices that can do powerful computing locally. Networks are great for searching for information and messaging, but accessing centralized computing apart from large-scale facilities such as google is still a pain and people try to avoid it.

If I compare today with 1990s, most people at my university back then were using central computers and terminals in a unix-based environment as well as Windows-based desktops. They were all centrally managed (apart from home computers). As time has gone by, today basically every student uses a laptop to do their reports, calculations, programming etc. and a mobile for communication. At labs the researchers have a bunch of computers on their desk (typically a laptop and PC), actual experimental labs have additional computers which might not even be online (real time processes don't like interruptions by virus checking software etc.).

For actual computation, modeling, data analysis, visualization, I think most people prefer to do that locally because of control (as well as speed of data access). Heavy computing may be done on a cluster but the thing with those is that you never know how much other load there is and when you will get the results. So some people will go into great lengths to write GPU code and write their optimized algorithms to be able to calculate their stuff locally without relying on resources elsewhere. Real time data analysis locally, that's what many people in my field want and strive for. In big data analysis, things might be different.

In academia people move a lot and they take their data and code with them, so that they can work while in a conference or while working abroad. Accessing computational resources across the Atlantic is often slow and unreliable and many universities don't even allow their centralized computers to be accessed off site because of security reasons. So it's just easier to put things on a laptop or a desktop computer and run it there where possible.

Nowadays you have computers in cameras, in phones, tablets, TVs, cars, even a washing machine might have a computer of a sort. My car has a radar which is monitored by a computer and the data is analyzed to detect imminent collision and the algorithm analyses the data in real time and warns the driver of the risk and if the driver doesn't react it will apply the brakes independently. This cannot work by sending radar data to a central computer wirelessly and then wait for a central computer to analyse the data when the reaction has to happen in a split second. Networks are great for accessing databases and information and communicating but for interactive work which requires computation, or real time processing they are too unreliable and slow.

I am sure that Lightroom CC (the cloud based app) doesn't do the basic computations that are required in interactive image editing in the cloud but on the mobile device itself. I would guess it edits the preview and shows the edits on that on the mobile and later updates the preview image from the raw data when there is time to transfer the image. The cloud can do stuff like AI based image search but this is an example of both distributed and centralized computing. It's not either or. If everyone really moved to transfer their high resolution images across wireless networks (mobile broadband) I think this would create a huge increase in energy consumption and wouldn't be feasible in the end. How much coal do you want to burn to be able to access any data anywhere witha device that fits in a pocket? I don't think this development is healthy.



Nov 01, 2017 at 02:11 PM
sirimiri
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p.31 #18 · p.31 #18 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


^Interesting! Having read this I will probably have some strange dream (or nightmare?) on those themes, in a few days...


Nov 13, 2017 at 07:22 AM
mikeengles
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p.31 #19 · p.31 #19 · Adobe announces new Lightroom products


Hello
There is a very old adage about not putting all your eggs in one basket and exclusively using cloud storage, without a local set of data as a backup is asking for trouble.
MDE



Nov 15, 2017 at 06:18 PM
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