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Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25
  
 
alundeb
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


It is official:

https://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/int/photography/products/milvus-lenses/milvus-1425.html



Oct 18, 2017 at 12:44 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


There is even a review out already:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/zeiss-milvus-25mm-f-1-4-review-31529



Oct 18, 2017 at 12:45 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


More info via Canonrumors:

http://www.canonrumors.com/zeiss-officially-announces-the-milvus-1-425/



Oct 18, 2017 at 12:52 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Data sheet with MTF charts

https://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/camera-lenses/files/service/download-center/datasheets/milvus-lenses/datasheet-zeiss-milvus-1425.pdf



Oct 18, 2017 at 12:54 PM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


I'd like to see a Batis 25/2 comparo.


Oct 18, 2017 at 01:03 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Holy Moley !


Oct 18, 2017 at 01:55 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


I don't know how relevant ephotozine resolution measurement is to real life performance, but from what they are saying, this lens is head and shoulder above the Otus 28/1.4 in most aspects. They even said the bokeh on the Otus is harsh while this lens bokeh is smooth.

Looking at Zeiss MTF, this one has less even resolution and more separation between Sag and Tan (less smooth bokeh?) than the Otus. WO, the 25 is sharper center and about the same edge/corner.



Oct 18, 2017 at 02:46 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Still the MTF tells that the lens is more similar to the Otus 28 than to the Milvus 35/1.4. The dip at 15 mm height is quite low at f/4 and will definitely be visible in high resolution images. Lloyd Chambers raves about the lens. Maybe he knows more than us, he hints at filed curvature and that it improves at f/5.6



Oct 18, 2017 at 04:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


alundeb wrote:
There is even a review out already:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/zeiss-milvus-25mm-f-1-4-review-31529


I just read the above review.

Can this be even possible? Center and edges equal at f/1.4??








Oct 18, 2017 at 05:01 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Fred Miranda wrote:
I just read the above review.

Can this be even possible? Center and edges equal at f/1.4??


Something is not right with those numbers. According to the MTF, the center resolution has to be higher at f/4 than at f/8. It cannot be as high as 83% at f/8 due to diffraction, which it would have to be if center resolution is higher at f/8 than f/4. I wonder where they focussed, and what height "edge" is. There is probably some focus shift and field curvature in play here. Still the "edge" resolution measured at f/1.4 is possible.

Don't say that you want one


Edited on Oct 18, 2017 at 05:17 PM · View previous versions



Oct 18, 2017 at 05:15 PM
 

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Gary Clennan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


WOW!


Oct 18, 2017 at 05:17 PM
scottsoutter
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Looks quite amazing. Available now on pre-order for (gulp) $2399. Glad that Zeiss are continuing to invest in their product line and move new capabilities into the world of DSLRs.


Oct 18, 2017 at 05:53 PM
twoeye
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Samples


Oct 18, 2017 at 07:50 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


'Can this be even possible?'

Overall, no, it's not. This is Imatest, almost certainly. I don't know the focal distance they use, but at infinity the 40 lpmm data of the Milvus 25/1.4 for center/edges from the Zeiss MTF are: f1.4 (67/46) and f4 (86/56). So for fine detail for distance work (landscapes) you lose around one third moving from center to wide edges.

The reason for the 'overall' to be included is that (i) Zeiss aims for even image quality wide open (and indeed at all apertures) across the frame at targeted focus distances (close for an f1.4 lens); (ii) their MTF for regular lenses are at infinity and significant differences in MTF are often seen at (unpublished) close focal distances; and (iii) the testers may have averaged different spatial frequencies.

Zeiss's Otus 28/1.4 charts however show just a few percent difference (less than 5%) between center and wide edges at f1.4 - for *both infinity and close distance focus (1:20)*. So for the elite lenses it can be done for a target aperture even as wide as f1.4. [Zeiss really should publish full aperture series and at least wide open/best aperture for close distance shooting (1:20). We cannot be sure how this one or the Milvus 35/1.4 does for close work.]




Oct 18, 2017 at 11:24 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


This one is the 25mm version of the new 35/1.4. If you look at the lens configuration, the entire back of the two lenses are identical. They lost more in the outer frames of the 25mm but their judgment is sound as all parameters fade quite gracefully, a steady decline in MTF and distortion quite at odds with the previous generation in ZE/ZF (25/2) which traded off good IQ to the wide edge for both curvature and plunging corners. The new M25 is stronger overall at f1.4 than the predecessor was at f2. And significantly improved at f4, no mean feat as f4 is now three stops down compared with two stops down.

Curvature looks to be pretty well controlled, IMO, but need to see the full aperture series. The fall off in outer frames is depicted by close 40 lpmm lines both wide open and at f4, and these lines cross near the ideal points. But the f1.4 IQ will be much more a Distagon pattern - very strong center, far stronger than the Milvus 35/1.4, with outer frames a little lower and less tidy. At f4, outer frames of 25/1.4 don't get close to the Milvus 35/1.4 though. These are all infinity readings..

It may be that Zeiss have been stung into action by the gains made by other makers in fast wide primes, in particular their tech competitor for the F/EF mounts - Sigma. Its 24/1.4 (15/11, 2 x asph) is around half the M25 weight but nowhere near this performance. But critically, it is about a third the price. The M25 is much stronger than Canon's 24/1.4, which struggles on 21mp.

http://photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/514-canon24f14mk2ff

And final thought: what if you knew the Batis 25/2 was stronger in the outer frame at f4 (peak) than this new wunder 25mm Milvus, and with no curvature whatsoever? ;-) That is the difference a stop in max aperture can make..



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:25 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


twoeye wrote:
Samples


Very nice samples!



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:33 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


from the Imatest site:

"Distance and field of view
The camera must be far enough from the chart so you are measuring the sharpness of your camera and lens, not the chart. But remember,
Itís the field of view, not the chart-to-camera distance, that counts...
35 inches (90 cm) for a 16 megapixel camera.
Details below. For a high-quality photographically-printed chart (such as the charts from Applied Imaging) you can get quite a bit closer."

and

"The distance to the target should be at least 40X the focal length of the lens for digital SLRs. (25X is the absolute minimum; 40X leaves some margin.)"

http://www.imatest.com/docs/lens_testing/#download

40x for a 25mm lens is one metre.



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:41 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


Might be of interest that Zeiss used two asph elements, one 2nd from the front, one camera facing, last in line. Many suspect these elements are highly variable in quality, and these comments by Dr Nasse (re the 15/2.8 Distagon) probably apply here as well, as the M25 is of the same general configuration in this respect:

'A front aspheric element would have been preferred, but due to its large size, such a choice would have raised the cost substantially due to higher production costs to achieve the required precision over such a large area.'




Oct 19, 2017 at 02:22 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


philip_pj wrote:
This one is the 25mm version of the new 35/1.4. If you look at the lens configuration, the entire back of the two lenses are identical. They lost more in the outer frames of the 25mm but their judgment is sound as all parameters fade quite gracefully, a steady decline in MTF and distortion quite at odds with the previous generation in ZE/ZF (25/2) which traded off good IQ to the wide edge for both curvature and plunging corners.


The Milvus 35/1.4 has excellent edges, with a corner "knee" at f/4, while the 25/1.4 has the near edge dip and no corner knee. To me that makes the lens more different than similar to the 35/1.4. The near edge dip and no corner knee is more like the Otus 28 at f/4.
At f/4, the Milvus 25/1.4 is no better at 15 mm height than the 35 is in the extreme corner...
For near edge resolution, that is critical to landscape, more critical than extreme corners, the ranking is:
Milvus 35/1.4 > Otus 28/1.4 > Milvus 25/1.5






Oct 19, 2017 at 07:21 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Zeiss Milvus 1.4/25


twoeye wrote:
Samples


Thanks for the link to samples, they are very high quality and can be used to evaluate the lens.

"Turquoise tarn" was shot at f/5.6 at near infinity distance and is discouraging.

It is blurred from edge to corner on the left side, and there is quite a bit of CA. Much more than from the 35/1.4.

The right side looks sharper though.



Oct 19, 2017 at 12:28 PM
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