Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Wedding Resource List
  

FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Stolen image on billboard!
  
 
Elijah
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Stolen image on billboard!


So... crazy news (for me) last night.
My brother in law sent me this screenshot of my stolen image on a billboard for venue advertisement purposes.
I immediately asked this very same client if they had released any photos to the venue and they said no.
However, the venue did contact me a few months ago asking my permission to use this image on their WEBSITE.
They did NOT mention anything about billboard advertisement purposes, they only asked for my permission to post it on their blog.
I gave them permission to use this very same image with them giving me credit and linking my website for SEO purposes.

How would you guys deal with this?












Oct 17, 2017 at 04:35 PM
jmraso
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Stolen image on billboard!


I would spend a while on the net looking for a brandnew car !. 😉


Oct 17, 2017 at 04:43 PM
BSPhotog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Stolen image on billboard!


That was ballsy of them. Sounds like time for a lawyer to make contact.


Oct 17, 2017 at 04:44 PM
Littleguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Stolen image on billboard!


All kinds of problem now - that's a commercial use and if your client's didn't provide a model release for that use ... seek legal advice.


Oct 17, 2017 at 04:47 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Stolen image on billboard!


That's big bucks right there. Get your lawyer in it.


Oct 17, 2017 at 05:26 PM
Mark_L
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Stolen image on billboard!


Dunno if it's big bucks. Unless you registered it with the copyright people these cases don't seem to end up that way but we are all armchair lawyers here not from your state (or country in my case).


Oct 17, 2017 at 05:39 PM
njfantastico
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Stolen image on billboard!


Two ways about taking the next step.

1. lawyer - sure, you can go this route, it's expensive on both sides, takes a long time, will burn your bridge with the venue, hard ache and lots of head ache.

OR

2. The nice guy approach - Ask the couple that is in the image if they mind being the poster couple for this venue. If they are happy, move to the second step. Make an appointment to see the venue. Tell them you just want to chat about the billboard, no lawyer talk, just civil discussion. Go meet with them and see if you can find a realistic balance. They should pay you for the right to use the image. They should also do something special for the couple in the image. They should also place you at the top of their vendor list and build a NICE professional relationship with You.

Most venues/people have NO IDEA what they are doing. No idea about copyright, use of image, etc. All they know, is that they like the image. IF after you meet with them, if they are anything but amazing and they are mean to you, then seek help.

If they bend over backwards and want to work with You, take that high road and work hard to stay there.

I would take the Nice Guy angle first, SO MUCH EASIER!!

If i can assist you, please ask



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:01 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Stolen image on billboard!


Mark_L wrote:
Dunno if it's big bucks. Unless you registered it with the copyright people these cases don't seem to end up that way but we are all armchair lawyers here not from your state (or country in my case).


Look at the picture again, That's a MAJOR highway. His lawyer can substantiate considerable loss, if the photographer's name and or website does appear on the billboard. From what I gather, it does not. Copyright in this case is irrelevant. Even if it is, it's already be published, and proof of creation date is documented. Again, that's big bucks. You're not going to get that in a friendly "sit down chat".



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:08 PM
BigIronCruiser
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Stolen image on billboard!


This is quite presumptuous on their part. Knowledge is power, so the first step might be to consult with an attorney just to know your options. Good luck!


Oct 17, 2017 at 06:29 PM
MRomine
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Stolen image on billboard!


Elijah wrote:
How would you guys deal with this?


I would definitely follow the recommendation of njfantastico above. If this image has not been filed with the U.S. copyright office prior to publication (in this case the billboard), then I believe, if I remember correctly , infringements are limited to $10K which is nice money but not the big money like everyone here is suggesting. Therefore, it my not be worth your time and effort to go the attorney route right off the bat but rather try to negotiate a reasonable fee for the usage.

If you are a member of PPA they will provide you with some free legal consultations on your options.



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:46 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Dj R
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Stolen image on billboard!


What if your client sues you too


Oct 17, 2017 at 07:01 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Stolen image on billboard!


Dj R wrote:
What if your client sues you too


Exactly. This is all kinds of messed up. He gave the image to the vendor for other use. I really hope his client was aware of that, and approved it, or you are dead on right. This is another reason he should have a lawyer involved immediately. A lawyer can bring the client into the mix, rather than have to possibly face them later.



Oct 17, 2017 at 07:06 PM
formula4speed
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Stolen image on billboard!


MRomine wrote:
I would definitely follow the recommendation of njfantastico above. If this image has not been filed with the U.S. copyright office prior to publication (in this case the billboard), then I believe, if I remember correctly , infringements are limited to $10K which is nice money but not the big money like everyone here is suggesting. Therefore, it my not be worth your time and effort to go the attorney route right off the bat but rather try to negotiate a reasonable fee for the usage.

If you are a member of PPA they will provide you with some free
...Show more

That's a lot of "maybe".

If you want good photos, hire a professional photographer. If you want good legal advice, talk to a lawyer.

There's a pretty big gap between talking to a lawyer about what your options are and nasty litigation. A letter from a lawyer might settle the whole thing.




Oct 17, 2017 at 07:12 PM
MRomine
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Stolen image on billboard!


formula4speed wrote:
That's a lot of "maybe".


What part of that is a 'maybe' to you?



Oct 17, 2017 at 07:14 PM
InSanE
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Stolen image on billboard!


Make a large sticker with your contact info and put it on the billboard.


Oct 17, 2017 at 07:17 PM
mb126
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Stolen image on billboard!


I think a lot depends on your relationship with the venue. Is it the type of place that attracts the type of weddings you would like to shoot frequently? Do you like their staff?

If yes to above, then I'd go the "hey, we should really talk about you guys using my images for commercial purposes" route. High booking season is coming up and this could very well start paying dividends immediately.

If it was a one-and-done wedding and you'll never be back there then yeah burn all the bridges. But any time lawyers get involved you are never looking at a quick outcome.



Oct 17, 2017 at 11:00 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Stolen image on billboard!


mb126 wrote:
...then I'd go the "hey, we should really talk about you guys using my images for commercial purposes" route. High booking season is coming up and this could very well start paying dividends immediately.


Problem with that is the billboard won't be changed for many, many months, if not a year. That's a lot of traffic he's losing. If they're willing to steal an image and publish it commercially this blatantly, do you really think you can trust them for any recommendations to clients?

The only way to handle this properly at this point is purely from a legal standpoint. There is far too much more at stake. As of right now, the couple could sue both the vendor and the photographer for a boatload of money. Very likely, they'll go after the photographer first. The photographer needs to obtain legal representation, bring the couple into his side, and immediately attack the issue proactively.



Oct 17, 2017 at 11:39 PM
mb126
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Stolen image on billboard!


^^ I meant that to say he needs to parlay it into a referral stream from the venue. It's not like they don't like his work.

I agree it's shitty that they did this without asking. I just think the overall more profitable way to handle the situation is to try to use it to your advantage and only go the legal route if that doesn't work out.

It's not like these avenues are mutually exclusive. If they have no interest in giving him a bunch of referrals then by all means sue the kids out of them.



Oct 17, 2017 at 11:54 PM
amonline
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Stolen image on billboard!


mb126 wrote:
^^ I meant that to say he needs to parlay it into a referral stream from the venue. It's not like they don't like his work.

I agree it's shitty that they did this without asking. I just think the overall more profitable way to handle the situation is to try to use it to your advantage and only go the legal route if that doesn't work out.

It's not like these avenues are mutually exclusive. If they have no interest in giving him a bunch of referrals then by all means sue the kids out of them.


Hard to take a friendly route, or worry about the profit of vendor-referrals at this point, when there is a third party (client) involved. Their likeness/image in all this is a HUGE difference in the overall matter. Think about that. What if he did work out a friendly little agreement with the vendor, and next week one or both get served by the client? It will just turn into one crazy shit-storm at that point. The only safe way to proceed for all parties involved is a legal way. Personally, I'd side with the client legally. That will probably bring far more referrals than trying to partner with some slimy thief vendor.



Oct 18, 2017 at 12:31 AM
glort
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Stolen image on billboard!



$1000 says nothing comes of this other than the indignation of other shooters here.

Don't know why everyone seems to think this is a windfall open and shut case.
Nothing in law ever is. Guarantee once lawyers get involved it will get spun so many ways and by the time they get their cut, there will be nothing left for the OP anyway.

Venue will claim it was a mistake, the janitor sent wrong image, they weren't aware of it till it was too late and didn't know where it came from as the usual person that looks after these things was on holidays and a whole bunch of liability limiting BS to get them out of their wrong doings.

Add to the fact images have little value these days and less than zero respect for the creator. The venue will probably argue they could have got a similar image off a stock library or off the net for $1.95 and with penalties etc the pic is worth a total of $12.37 and that's what the damages will be.... less legal fees.

Us plebs are ignorant when it comes to these things. We work on right and wrong and fair. That's laughable when it comes to legalities. The law is simply a bunch of rules that get twisted and manipulated unfailingly in the favour of the wrong do'er and to the detriment of the victim. Anyone that thinks the law is about fair and right has been fortunate enough to avoid it.

Everyone has this "sue the pants off them" mentality these days but saying it and doing it and moreso, getting the money even if it is awarded is a whole different ball game.

Chicken feed token money here at best.



Oct 18, 2017 at 08:02 AM
1
       2       end






FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password