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Archive 2017 · D850 motion blur question.....

  
 
J.Marcus Photo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D850 motion blur question.....


I keep hearing everyone online say that they have to up the shutter speed and ISO a decent amount on the d850 to get a sharp photo compared to the d810.
I shoot with 105mm 1.4 and 200f2 on a d810 and the last thing I want to do is boost shutter and ISO.
Anyone have experience with both cameras?



Oct 16, 2017 at 02:02 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D850 motion blur question.....


I can only use VR lenses or tripod anymore. My hands shake like a drunk's, and I haven't had a drink in 30 years. Up the shutter speed if you need to.


Oct 16, 2017 at 02:29 PM
worldexclus1ve
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D850 motion blur question.....


One of the reasons why I'm sticking with the D500 for event work for a while until I can get my hands on the 2.8 trinity. I use primes a lot and none of them have VR. Shooting with a D850 handheld all day would cause tears at the computer. I can't buy a D850 just to shoot in crop.


Oct 16, 2017 at 02:39 PM
RoyC
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D850 motion blur question.....


It is not necessary to raise the SS on a D500 (same pixel density) to get sharp images and I see no reason the D850 would require it either. Good form is all that is needed. I suspect that people that are getting sharp images with a 105 f1.4 wide open handheld have that good form.




Oct 16, 2017 at 02:43 PM
engardeknave
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D850 motion blur question.....


If you shot the same photo with the same amount of handshake with a higher and lower resolution sensor, and then resized the image from the high-res sensor to match that of the low-res sensor, I think they would show the same amount of motion blur.

My understanding is not that the higher resolution sensor makes your image more susceptible to motion blur, but only that it permits you to see motion blur that your lower resolution sensor could not reveal.

So theoretically, you could shoot exactly as you do now, and just never look at your images beyond a 78% zoom, and never see the issue. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.



Oct 16, 2017 at 02:52 PM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D850 motion blur question.....


If you're viewing a 46mpix image at 1 to 1, of course it will show more flaws in technique than viewing 12mpix images at 1 to 1.

This is scarmongering by arm chair photographers that have created false information for who knows what reason.



Oct 16, 2017 at 03:39 PM
gdsf2
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D850 motion blur question.....


Traditionally, motion blur refers to the blur caused by the movement of the subject during the shot. The shutter speed needed to freeze action is s function of how fast your subject is moving.

What I believe you are asking about is the shutter speed needed to handhold the camera and get an acceptably sharp image of a stationary subject. In this case, the rule of thumb is a minimium shutter speed of 1/focal lenght (with excellent handholding techique).

Regardless of which issue you are concerned with, the number of MP is not a factor, so don’t worry about it.




Oct 16, 2017 at 03:52 PM
Vinnie_VdB
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D850 motion blur question.....


For a D800/D810 is the rule to have at least x2 times the shutter speed as it would do on 12-18Mpix camera. I guess for a D850 I think it will need an ever slightlt fast shutter speed than the D800/D810 to avoid blur.


Oct 16, 2017 at 04:12 PM
elkhornsun
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D850 motion blur question.....


worldexclus1ve wrote:
One of the reasons why I'm sticking with the D500 for event work for a while until I can get my hands on the 2.8 trinity. I use primes a lot and none of them have VR. Shooting with a D850 handheld all day would cause tears at the computer. I can't buy a D850 just to shoot in crop.


The only time I have needed VR was shooting in a dimly lit church (and nearly all are badly lit) and having to be at ISO 3200 and f/2.8 with the 70-200mm lens and needing to use a shutter speed of 1/10s. I needed to carefully release the shutter, lean against a support, and definitely needed VR.

But with a 24-70mm lens on any camera I can shoot at 1/25s and get sharp images so long as I do not get sloppy. I have to focus and take a second and then shoot. If I do not then there is camera motion blur much of the time. For people I try to be at 1/80s or faster to avoid subject motion blur and this applies even when people are standing still and talking.

When I first started shooting with the D800e it quickly became apparent that I needed to exercise more care when shooting than I had to do with the D3. I adjusted and no more problems.

VR on a shorter than 150mm lens is to me a marketing gimmick and not something I truly need to get sharp pictures.



Oct 16, 2017 at 04:34 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D850 motion blur question.....


If you make the final presentation at the same size, increasing the sensor resolution won't make the image softer at a given shutter speed. If you look at the image at 100% zoom to see the actual pixels then of course you can see more blur because the image captured at the sensor is magnified more. If you want to take full advantage of the extra pixels then some increase in shutter speed may be at times needed, but the difference between 45 and 36MP is very small, 1/6th of a stop or a bit less than that should be a sufficient increase in shutter speed. So in practice occasionally you might choose a 1/1250s instead of 1/1000s - or keep the shutter speed the same, as you wish. If the print size is the same then no change in shutter speed is necessary.

If you shoot at those critical speeds where the vibration from the mechanical shutter could cause a perceptible reduction in sharpness (with some telephoto lens usually) then the D850's counterbalanced shutter should cause less vibration, but there is not much public data about this yet. It will be interesting to see how much improvement there is. The D810 shutter already causes less vibration than the D800 shutter, and the D850 should be even better. There is also the EFCS and fully electronic silent shutter mode. EFCS is available also in viewfinder photography using the quiet or quiet continuous drive modes in the D850, so you could try those if you are hand holding a telephoto and concerned about shutter vibration.



Oct 16, 2017 at 05:00 PM
Ai_Print
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D850 motion blur question.....


ilkka_nissila wrote:
If you want to take full advantage of the extra pixels then some increase in shutter speed may be at times needed, but the difference between 45 and 36MP is very small, 1/6th of a stop or a bit less than that should be a sufficient increase in shutter speed.


Do you actually own the camera?

Because I have had it for 6 weeks and I am finding with great consistency if I am using a lens longer than a 50mm without VR, I need to at least double the usual hand-holdable speed that is reciprocal of the focal length in use, especially over 100mm.

In my opinion, the jump from 36 MP to 46MP is turning out to be what might be the breaking point of needing absolutely critical technique and the best glass to make proper use the camera in terms of showing what it can really do.

And if you can't make good use of the resolution at least 75% of the time, it is kind of a waste in my opinion.

To be clear, I am talking hand held.


Edited on Oct 16, 2017 at 05:28 PM · View previous versions



Oct 16, 2017 at 05:19 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D850 motion blur question.....


The difference is resolution is small, I'd be surprised if you needed to use much different shutter speeds. Without VR, stick to 1/2xFL and you should be OK if you are careful, this works with my D800 and I'm picky.

You'll never get a 'worse' result than the D810 at the same shutter speed, it will just look more obvious at 100% because it has higher resolution. This seems to be a common misunderstanding on this forum.



Oct 16, 2017 at 05:20 PM
webmstrk9
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D850 motion blur question.....


Proper technique goes a long ways. I’m not sure what shutter speeds you’re curious about but I was able to get the group to not move for a split second for a shot

1/20, 3200, f2, d850 + 28E

https://flic.kr/p/CpbMyN




Oct 16, 2017 at 06:59 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D850 motion blur question.....


Really depends what you want to do with the 45MPs.....do you want to use them to print larger and maintain similar quality of print?....then yes you may have to up SS. Do you plan to output to the same size of medium or just online then it shouldn't matter but you aren't using the extra MPs for anything and would want to see value in other features of the D850 to even make it worthwhile over the D810 or D750.


Oct 16, 2017 at 07:05 PM
J.Marcus Photo
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D850 motion blur question.....


Well I generally don't print very large. I do want the d850 for a few features, the touch to focus ( I use live view a lot with portrait work so I can frame exactly how I like and not run out of focus points) also for faster focus when using the viewfinder, better focusing in low light....
I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't regret it since I really did have to work on my technique a lot coming from d610 to the 810 to get things sharp with 85 1.4g 105 1.4e and 200f2 wide open.
I do a lot of portrait work so mostly subjects aren't moving , unless we decide to do motion shots....

arbitrage wrote:
Really depends what you want to do with the 45MPs.....do you want to use them to print larger and maintain similar quality of print?....then yes you may have to up SS. Do you plan to output to the same size of medium or just online then it shouldn't matter but you aren't using the extra MPs for anything and would want to see value in other features of the D850 to even make it worthwhile over the D810 or D750.




Oct 16, 2017 at 07:42 PM
Elijah
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D850 motion blur question.....


Stop drinking so much RedBull, you won't have this blurry-image issue!


Oct 16, 2017 at 07:56 PM
Photozack81
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D850 motion blur question.....


gdsf2 wrote:
Traditionally, motion blur refers to the blur caused by the movement of the subject during the shot. The shutter speed needed to freeze action is s function of how fast your subject is moving.

What I believe you are asking about is the shutter speed needed to handhold the camera and get an acceptably sharp image of a stationary subject. In this case, the rule of thumb is a minimium shutter speed of 1/focal lenght (with excellent handholding techique).

Regardless of which issue you are concerned with, the number of MP is not a factor, so don’t worry about it.
...Show more

This rule of thumb no longer applies to today's high resolution sensors.

The formula should be amended to 1.5 or 2x the focal length in most circumstances.

Crop bodies should require a different formula (taking the crop factor into account), but so far 1.5 or 2x seems to work for them as well.



Oct 16, 2017 at 08:23 PM
Ai_Print
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D850 motion blur question.....


J.Marcus Photo wrote:
Well I generally don't print very large. I do want the d850 for a few features, the touch to focus ( I use live view a lot with portrait work so I can frame exactly how I like and not run out of focus points) also for faster focus when using the viewfinder, better focusing in low light....
I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't regret it since I really did have to work on my technique a lot coming from d610 to the 810 to get things sharp with 85 1.4g 105 1.4e and 200f2 wide open.


Right, so it sounds like even if you don't print very large, you still want the best files you can get in terms of technical execution.

Being that as it is, I think you are going to find a disproportionate ratio of required shutter speed to increase in resolution when it comes to getting the best files from the D850. For example, I don't know that I would go below 1/250th of a second with the 105 1.4E to get the most out of both the lens and the 46MP and really prefer /320th or higher. I might get away with 1/200th with a 105 2.5 AIS because of significant difference in weight.

In any case, 6 weeks and several thousand frames later & in my experience, this camera shows the results of less than flawless technique considerably sooner than the D810 does. Count on it.

Again, this is with non-VR glass handheld.




Oct 16, 2017 at 08:43 PM
charles.K
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D850 motion blur question.....


Shutter is more important now particularly with the 105E if you wish to see the details of the eye lashes I have placed in the custom menu, Faster, Fast, Normal and Slower relating to the min shutter speed for AUTO ISO depending on the lens I use. I am finding this very useful. I don't know of any other method for the shortcut to AUTO ISO shutter speed min settings.


Oct 16, 2017 at 09:09 PM
gdsf2
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D850 motion blur question.....


Photozack81 wrote:
This rule of thumb no longer applies to today's high resolution sensors.

The formula should be amended to 1.5 or 2x the focal length in most circumstances.

Crop bodies should require a different formula (taking the crop factor into account), but so far 1.5 or 2x seems to work for them as well.


The rule of thumb works just fine for me on my D810. People said exactly the same thing when the D800 came out. Don’t have the D850 but I do not expect a change. Good technique makes a difference. But, if you need to increase shutter speed, that is ok too.



Oct 16, 2017 at 09:46 PM
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