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What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?
  
 
dolina
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?




https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-cipa-camera-shipment-reports-sales-still-lame/







Edited on Oct 16, 2017 at 12:21 PM · View previous versions



Oct 16, 2017 at 06:05 AM
Herb
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Camera manufacturers would do themselves a huge favor and reduce the number of products they produce. Between point and shoot and dslr cameras there are way too many. I would expect the manufacturers to trim back the offerings to a few that they produce the most. Dump the 80% skews that accounts for the widest array of cameras and least volume and focus on doing really well the 20% skews that generates the 80% profitability...right now the manufacturers are trying to be everything for everybody......something that canít and wonít be sustained.


Oct 16, 2017 at 10:05 AM
dolina
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


I agree with you on that Herb. Looking at the product offering of Canon and one would think they were Samsung selling smartphones.

Looking at BHPhoto Canon has the following

8 APS-C bodies
7 Full Frame bodies
5 mirrorless bodies
17 point & shoots



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:06 AM
Herb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


dolina wrote:
I agree with you on that Herb. Looking at the product offering of Canon and one would think they were Samsung selling smartphones.

Looking at BHPhoto Canon has the following

8 APS-C bodies
7 Full Frame bodies
5 mirrorless bodies
17 point & shoots


At some point the software might be the same with different features being turned on and off, or different modules added or replaced, but in the end they still have too many skews. They need to think Ďleaní and the road to better profits are at the end of it. Looking at the list you really have to wonder why they donít cut the offering in 30 to 50%. For the most part they are Japanese companies and they are aware of lean practices.



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:51 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


dolina wrote:
17 point & shoots


Which is something that used to make me loathe the manufacturers - a big box store with display cabinets full of shiny pieces of shit. All middling garbage. Just make two, but make them excellent at what they do and stop being stingy and crippling your own products.



Oct 16, 2017 at 11:05 AM
dolina
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Paul Mo wrote:
Which is something that used to make me loathe the manufacturers - a big box store with display cabinets full of shiny pieces of shit. All middling garbage. Just make two, but make them excellent at what they do and stop being stingy and crippling your own products.


They could make do with one SX, one G and ELPH for the point & shoots. The price points of these cameras are at the same level as smartphones with far less fewer features.

A lawyer friend wanted to buy a mirrorless and I told her to just invest in a Google Pixel 2 or a Apple iPhone 8 as she'd have the camera with her all the time.

Doesn't help that connectivity to WiFi, NFC and Bluetooth of cameras released in 2017 are still clunky.



Oct 16, 2017 at 11:21 AM
evertdoorn
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Nikon seems to get it with the D850


Oct 16, 2017 at 01:08 PM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?




dolina wrote:
They could make do with one SX, one G and ELPH for the point & shoots. The price points of these cameras are at the same level as smartphones with far less fewer features.

A lawyer friend wanted to buy a mirrorless and I told her to just invest in a Google Pixel 2 or a Apple iPhone 8 as she'd have the camera with her all the time.

Doesn't help that connectivity to WiFi, NFC and Bluetooth of cameras released in 2017 are still clunky.


Which is good advice.



Oct 16, 2017 at 01:53 PM
molson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


evertdoorn wrote:
Nikon seems to get it with the D850


Unfortunately for Nikon, it's only popular right now because it's the "flavour of the month", and none of their other products are selling.

I was in to one of the local camera stores in Victoria on the weekend, and they had so much used Nikon gear they didn't have room for it in the display cases and it was piling up on the floor behind the counters.



Oct 16, 2017 at 04:45 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


The cell phone continues to eat their lunch. One can take dang good pix with a cell. Still, there are those who want to go beyond the limits of the phone. I see no advertising in places where cell users go. Why don't they cut a deal with Apple? SL2 with lens kit at Apple's site. Tight integration with Photo. A Nikon at Verizon. $$ for Apple. $$ for Canikon. Adobe Elements with any cheap starter cam.

Market edit tools (iPad or similar.) One stop shopping. H*ll I hate marketing droids, but even I can come up with 6 ways to move gears.

The manufacturers continue to slog on in yesterday's world. Way too many products. Incomprehensible variations. What's a SL2 or a Rebel whatever?

I will always need powerful tools. If the low end doesn't support the top, they will become so expensive that only the top tier of shooters and well-off enthusiast will be left.

Of course, Canikon isn't paying attention to us.

Grumble. Mutter. Scratch. Need coffee.



Oct 16, 2017 at 05:01 PM
 

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ggreene
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


I'd like to see Canon get together with Apple on a cut down version of iOS for a lower end body that gives all these iPhone users an easy learning path to upgrade to. Over time standardize on it and make all the other bodies capable of running it as well. Cell phones are a disruptive technology that Canon keeps complaining about. Stop butting your head up against them and try to work with the new tech.

Would be great to see an Apple/Canon presentation at the 2018 iphone rollout next September at Steve Jobs theater. I wish Canon had the imagination to do something like that.



Oct 16, 2017 at 06:07 PM
rek101
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


If you ask someone in their 20s, they'll say they like the image quality of a decent camera, but they don't want to carry it with them. Cameras from this point forward will be for pros and enthusiasts who don't mind the weight/bulk/inconvenience of carrying something with them that just isn't that necessary.

It's a shame because printing anything but a very small print from a cell phone is basically going to deliver a disappointing result.



Oct 17, 2017 at 04:32 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


I'd like to see six cameras from manufactures.
Two high end pro models, two intermediate, and two point and shoot.
Do we and Canon in the example, really need 37 camera models to choose from?
Sheeeesh!
John



Oct 17, 2017 at 04:45 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


rek101 wrote:
Cameras from this point forward will be for pros and enthusiasts who don't mind the weight/bulk/inconvenience of carrying something with them that just isn't that necessary.


In the same way that the desktop computer is becoming the preserve of gamers and people who work in graphics/computational science who need heavy lifting.

Stating the obvious, things are going mobile, fast.



Oct 17, 2017 at 04:54 AM
dolina
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Paul Mo wrote:
Which is good advice.


Also it appears that ELPH series may soon be discontinued. It has not been updated since January 2016 and this product line renews on a 11-12 month cycle since 2012.



Oct 17, 2017 at 05:01 AM
dolina
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Paul Mo wrote:
In the same way that the desktop computer is becoming the preserve of gamers and people who work in graphics/computational science who need heavy lifting.

Stating the obvious, things are going mobile, fast.

Sales of PCs have been in decline for 5 years straight.

https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3568420
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/04/12/pc-shipments-dip----again/100347930/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242572-pc-market-just-fell-fifth-straight-year-unit-shipments-continue-decline

Upgrading PCs from every 3 years to every 5-6 years may be part of the reason of the decline of sales.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3078010/hardware/the-pc-upgrade-cycle-slows-to-every-five-to-six-years-intels-ceo-says.html
http://www.channelpronetwork.com/article/demise-3-year-pc-refresh-cycle

PCs with Android chips from Qualcomm will start shipping by next year.



There is a possibility that Apple is moving their Macs to iPhone chips within 5 years.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/29/apple-looking-to-develop-custom-arm-chips-for-future-macs-cutting-out-intel---report

These are my past gadget and what it replaced.

2007 iMac > 2012 iMac but upgrading the 1.1TB Fusion drive to a 10.1TB Fusion Drive
2010 Macbook Pro > 2017 Dell Inspiron 15 7000 Gaming to update my familiarity with Windows from XP to 10
2015 iPhone 6s > 2017 iPhone 8 Plus by November on a 2 year contract
2013 iPad Air > 2018 iPad Pro with Super AMOLED by next year as iOS 12 will not support my current iPad.
2015 Google Nexus 6P > 2017 Google Android One to maintain my SIM on a cheap stock Android phone

The only persons I know who have a shorter upgrade cycle are PC gamers and media-heavy businesses that really need the fastest gear out there like profitable video and photo businesses.

The last compact and SLR I bought are APC-C 2014 Leica X (Typ 113) & full frame 2015 5Ds R. Going forward my future bodies would probably full frame or larger like a 5D Mark V by 2020.


Edited on Oct 17, 2017 at 06:22 AM · View previous versions



Oct 17, 2017 at 05:55 AM
dclark
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


Very interesting data. Unit sales can be pretty misleading without data on revenue and margins. It is clear that over the past 10 years the movement has been to more expensive cameras and lenses. It is important to realize that is not just the trend from point-and-shot cameras to DSLRs, but within the DSLR/mirrorless cameras the trend is toward more expensive cameras and lenses that have higher profit margins. That should help profitability on a unit basis, but it is not clear whether the profit pool is large enough to keep manufacturers investing in new products. It also seems clear that industry consolidation is going to happen. Marginal competitors are not going to be able to justify the investment required. A big question is Nikon. They are not that big a company and may be forced to concentrate on more profitable medical products and steppers. Canon and Sony have a lot of financial power but they also have a lot of internal competition for R&D dollars. Can the camera divisions make a strong enough profitability case to keep getting R&D? The other players look like they are small specialty players or toast.

A more interesting analysis the photography industry needs to consider the cell phone camera business. The units there are measured in billions, so the idea that fewer cameras are being sold is clearly wrong. The number of cameras is far far larger than ever. The number of photos taken likewise is much much larger that ever. Photography is a booming activity and a booming business.

Sony is a strong player in the smart phone camera business. That will help them in an industry that is consolidating.



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:22 AM
dolina
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


dclark wrote:
Sony is a strong player in the smart phone camera business. That will help them in an industry that is consolidating.


From what I can recall Sony makes up the top 50% of the smartphone camera market. That may be why Sony's larger image sensors are superior to those of Canon in spite of selling far fewer dedicated still cameras than Canon & Nikon.



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:26 AM
dclark
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


dolina wrote:
From what I can recall Sony makes up the top 50% of the smartphone camera market. That may be why Sony's larger image sensors are superior to those of Canon in spite of selling far fewer dedicated still cameras than Canon & Nikon.


It's also true that all those smart phone cameras are back-side illuminated sensors, which gave them a large manufacturing base to develop the technology and extend it to the much more difficult full-frame BSI sensor (A7Rii) and the stacked BSI sensor (A9). An investment that must have been billions. Hard to match if you are not a major participant.

Dave



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:41 AM
thenoilif
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What Happened to the Photography Industry in 2016?


As we see smartphone camera capabilities improve year to year we see camera sales decrease in comparison. Not rocket science.

Possibly just anecdotal but FujiFilm sales have been increasing year to year. I think of all of the manuf. they have done the best job of manuf. and marketing their products to tie into the smartphone market. Small cameras with amazing IQ that produce very beautiful out of camera jpegs. They also have very IG-esque 'filters' built into their cameras and have that vintage look and feel that is quite trendy with the smartphone user set.



Oct 17, 2017 at 06:44 AM
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