Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Fuji Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
  

Archive 2017 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes

  
 
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


photomedic4321 wrote:
Okay gang, their are some stunning images on the landscape forum but also on the rest of the forum too. My question is what RAW developer do you guys use. I am currently using Camera RAW as that is what I have used my whole time I have shot digital, just curious what most others use.


I've been using x-trans cameras for about five years now — along with other camera systems. I have not found any reason to use anything other than the same Adobe products that I use with all of my work. The raw conversion capabilities of ACR (which I use most) and Lightroom are first rate if you understand how to use them, and the compatibility advantages of the Adobe products are compelling.

I think that the supposed differences in output from different raw conversion programs reflect not so much actual difference in their capabilities as they do the knowledge of the photographer about how to use the software, along with more than a bit of wishful thinking.

If you happen to enjoy the interface of one of the other applications — and are happy going through .tiff steps and so forth for conversion to your final image editing app — use whatever you enjoy using. But don't expect to see any difference in the quality of your final prints.

Dan



Oct 16, 2017 at 07:12 PM
rdeloe
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


Dan, we do get obsessed about minutae on forums like this, so I took your challenge seriously! I processed the same RAF using my IXT+LR workflow, and a LR only workflow that many consider to be optimum (for sharpening, Amount: 33, Radius: 1.1, Detail: 85, Masking: 10). I then printed the same sample region from both finished images at 24”x36”. To be sure it was a fair test, I did the test blind (in other words, I mixed up the prints so I wouldn’t know which was which, and then chose the one I thought was best).

I can easily tell the difference in a side-by-side comparison of these prints, and so could you if you had the prints in front of you. At this size, the IXT+LR workflow I'm using squeezes a bit more detail out of the image than the LR only workflow.

But… would the differences I can see in these prints matter? I think that’s basically what you’re arguing, and on that point you’re absolutely right. They wouldn’t matter.

As I type this, I have a copy of Eliot Porter’s book Intimate Landscapes open in front of me. Relative to today, the equipment Porter used to make these images, and the 1970s technology the publisher used to print them in this book, would be considered totally inferior by many. Nonetheless, his photographs are exquisite, and really, there’s nothing at all wrong with the printing quality. I have no desire to pull out a magnifying glass and study the detail (although there actually is plenty of detail). Instead, I want to immerse myself in Porter’s vision.

Am I wasting my time by trying to squeeze the most detail out of my Fuji RAFs using my IXT+LR workflow? I suppose I am. Still, I get some satisfaction from knowing that I squeezed my RAFs for every bit of detail they can produce. And honestly, it doesn't get in the way of what actually matters -- the photographs.

Rob



Oct 16, 2017 at 08:32 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


What I know is that I can make excellent large prints from my 24MP XPro2 (and older 16MP XE1) files using ACR and Photoshop. Plus...

The Adobe products provide a powerful asset management environment that makes a big difference in my work. Even more, as a Photoshop/ACR users (who also uses Lightroom for some tasks on occasion) I find the close integration between the raw conversion tool and Photoshop to be critical. Specifically, I have an entirely non-destructive editing workflow that allows me to go back into the raw conversion at any point while in PS and change anything in either app without necessarily locking myself out of further changes.

As I always write...

YMMV.

Dan



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Shedugengan
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


I compared a fair number of raw converters for both Canon and Fuji files. This included DxO (ruled it out since it can't handle Fuji files), Capture One, PhotoNinja, Adobe, Photivo (free, but haven't seen an update in years), RawTherapee (free), and DarkTable (free).

My favorite for both results and usability is PhotoNinja. The interesting thing is that the first time I tried it, I didn't like it. A friend encouraged me to try again and I'm glad I did. The controls are minimal compared to most others but it has just want I need for raw conversion. I can import into Photoshop if needed. My favorite usability feature in PN is that a click in most modes jumps to 100% (centered at the point of the click), and back again with another click. No buttons needed. The default saturation in the color enhancement modes is a bit much, so I back it down from the default of 50 to around 40 most of the time. I've found a handful of shots for which it is very difficult to get the 'right' color with PN... nothing is perfect.

C1's usability just never clicked for me. A few friends just love it and they get great results.

Adobe gives good results but I find PhotoNinja much easier to use most of the time.

Photivo was interesting but very slow and is apparently dead.

The latest version of RawTherapee, 5.3, is amazingly fast and solid. It has too many features and takes time to learn but the results are remarkable for something free. I consider it a viable alternative if one is willing to learn the interface. If the color adjustments and zoom were like PN, I'd be totally happy with RT5.

DarkTable, at the time I tested, was terrible with highlight recovery and usability just didn't fit me.

There were others but I can't even remember them now.

So for the most part, I have to agree that it is more about how well you learn the software.



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:56 PM
rdeloe
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


We really are fortunate to have so many good choices!

Threads like this often end up in a place where it becomes clear that different people have found quite different solutions that work really well for them. What's not to like about that?



Oct 17, 2017 at 08:32 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


rdeloe wrote:
We really are fortunate to have so many good choices!

Threads like this often end up in a place where it becomes clear that different people have found quite different solutions that work really well for them. What's not to like about that?


Beyond that, this is a reminder of some important things about comparison fetishes. For one, if it were the case that some particular raw conversion tools was head and shoulders above the others, serious photographers to whom this should matter would flock to that tool.

There isn't such a tool and they don't.



Oct 17, 2017 at 10:37 AM
rdeloe
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


Yes. And in the cold light of day the same is true for most of the gear we use. It's become a truism to say that long ago cameras and lenses stopped being s barrier to photographic excellence for most people.

gdanmitchell wrote:
Beyond that, this is a reminder of some important things about comparison fetishes. For one, if it were the case that some particular raw conversion tools was head and shoulders above the others, serious photographers to whom this should matter would flock to that tool.

There isn't such a tool and they don't.




Oct 17, 2017 at 11:24 AM
dpiddy
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


Just downloaded Irident X-Transformer and am amazed by how much sharper the details are. Thanks for the heads up on this.


Oct 17, 2017 at 01:04 PM
cvrle59
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


I'm using ON1, I just loaded 2018 version, which includes HDR and Panorama, so I don't need to use separate software for those purposes. There are certain things that I don't like about ON1, but in general, very easy to use.
I purchase X-Transformer as well, so I convert to dng first.



Oct 18, 2017 at 07:15 AM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


Shedugengan wrote:
I compared a fair number of raw converters for both Canon and Fuji files. This included DxO (ruled it out since it can't handle Fuji files), Capture One, PhotoNinja, Adobe, Photivo (free, but haven't seen an update in years), RawTherapee (free), and DarkTable (free).


Are any of those programs really a substitute for Lightroom? By asking that, I mean can they handle the full workflow from end to end, including importing, conversion & processing, cataloging & keywording, and file output & printing?

I have no interest in adding extra steps to my workflow, or cluttering up my hard drives with space-wasting DNG or TIFF files.

I don't like the idea of Adobe's creative cloud subscription service, but since they've already stopped supporting CS6 I'm limited in what I can do with my GFX files in Photoshop, and today's announcement that support for LR6 stops at the end of this year, means future cameras won't be supported at all. it would be nice if there was a viable alternative.



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:56 AM
leighton w
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


molson wrote:
and today's announcement that support for LR6 stops at the end of this year, means future cameras won't be supported at all. it would be nice if there was a viable alternative.


This really sucks! I hate the idea of being forced into a subscription, but I may have to. I have tried numerous softwares and I haven't found one yet that I like better than LR.

So far On1 has gotten the closest. But in order to use it, I'm going to have to upgrade my video card, cause as it is now, it's really sluggish.



Oct 18, 2017 at 02:19 PM
cvrle59
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


leighton w wrote:
This really sucks! I hate the idea of being forced into a subscription, but I may have to. I have tried numerous softwares and I haven't found one yet that I like better than LR.

So far On1 has gotten the closest. But in order to use it, I'm going to have to upgrade my video card, cause as it is now, it's really sluggish.


Video card is killing me too, but, I don't have massive workflow, so I can live with it.
The plan is to get some HP to my computer, anyway, as soon as the weather gets worse, it's still to nice around here to spend it inside...



Oct 18, 2017 at 02:52 PM
apsphoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


I am liking On1 more and more, it still has issues but they are working on it. Then Capture One is very good. I have heard the Affinity (Serif) is working on their own DAM software similar to LR, I do like Affinity Photo. There is Topaz Studio and Luminar, because of Adobe's chosen business model it has brought out a lot more in competition, which is good for all of us.

Alan



Oct 18, 2017 at 04:07 PM
Shedugengan
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · What RAW Developer for Landscapes


molson wrote:
Are any of those programs really a substitute for Lightroom? By asking that, I mean can they handle the full workflow from end to end, including importing, conversion & processing, cataloging & keywording, and file output & printing?

I have no interest in adding extra steps to my workflow, or cluttering up my hard drives with space-wasting DNG or TIFF files.

I don't like the idea of Adobe's creative cloud subscription service, but since they've already stopped supporting CS6 I'm limited in what I can do with my GFX files in Photoshop, and today's announcement that support for LR6 stops at the
...Show more

I'm not sure about C1. DarkTable might (I'm out of date on it). The rest I listed are simply raw converters with a few features, but not the total workflow management you find in LR. Hopefully someone will fill that void.



Oct 18, 2017 at 06:16 PM
1      
2
       end




FM Forums | Fuji Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.