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X-T2 Birds in Flight
  
 
Michael H
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · X-T2 Birds in Flight




gdanmitchell wrote:
Hard (perhaps impossible) to make sweeping judgments of a camera's capabilities on the basis of one jpg in a photo thread. I've seem similar images from lots of systems.

The real issues with the Fujifilm cameras for birds in flight include:

1. While the AF is fine, it typically isn't fast enough to pick up and focus on moving birds.

2. The fastest EVF has at least some latency, and that needs to be minimized for BIF.

Dan


I completely agree Dan. I went through a few thousand frames to reach my conclusions. This was simply a good example of my personal frustration with the system, while knowing in the back of my mind I expected too much.

I love the system otherwise, but as with anything there are practical limitations.



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:40 PM
zimman
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


I agree with you.


Oct 30, 2017 at 10:05 PM
zimman
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Michael H, nothing taken personally. I posted this photo to show what is barely acceptable in comparison to the other photos I took. I am hoping to see about 100,000 snow geese on Nov. 11. I will see what happens there.


Oct 30, 2017 at 10:10 PM
Lken
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


I don't mean to sound like I am trying to beat up Fuji. I absolutely love my Fuji. Just wished it was better on BIF. Then it would be perfect for all my needs of a camera system. By the way do most people think the issue lies with the lens (100-400) or the focus system of the camera. I mean it will nail fast planes and cars. I have always wondered how it would with a say 300-f4 or similar lens?


Oct 31, 2017 at 12:06 AM
ajamils
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


I've been using X-T2 since it came out and after trying many times to get decent BIFs I have given up on it. X-T2 is a great camera but I don't think it can replace a DSLR for BIF. The only mirrrorless camera that I'm confident about capturing BIF is Sony A9.


Oct 31, 2017 at 01:29 AM
zimman
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Lken, I really like my Fuji. I think it is the system. I too find the 100-400 lens is just fine.

ajamils, I also heard that the Sony A9 does BIF very well.

I am hoping that the firmware that is rumoured to come out in November will help our situation.



Oct 31, 2017 at 02:03 AM
Fred Amico
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Lken wrote:
I don't mean to sound like I am trying to beat up Fuji. I absolutely love my Fuji. Just wished it was better on BIF. Then it would be perfect for all my needs of a camera system. By the way do most people think the issue lies with the lens (100-400) or the focus system of the camera. I mean it will nail fast planes and cars. I have always wondered how it would with a say 300-f4 or similar lens?


I can't fault the lens, as mine is very sharp. Like others, I am slowly realizing the Fuji system isn't up to par with a DSLR when it comes to BIF tries. Unfortunately for me, I read the early hype from a number of reviews that touted how well the X-T2 AF was for action, and believed it. Methinks they exaggerated a bit. Other than that, love shooting with my X-T1 and X-T2.




Oct 31, 2017 at 02:49 AM
Michael H
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Duplicate

Edited on Oct 31, 2017 at 03:04 AM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2017 at 03:03 AM
Michael H
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Lken wrote:
I don't mean to sound like I am trying to beat up Fuji. I absolutely love my Fuji. Just wished it was better on BIF. Then it would be perfect for all my needs of a camera system. By the way do most people think the issue lies with the lens (100-400) or the focus system of the camera. I mean it will nail fast planes and cars. I have always wondered how it would with a say 300-f4 or similar lens?


I think itís the camera for sure. The lens is capable of being quite sharp and can produce amazing images.

Iíve had fair luck with cars/motorcycles. Planes are significantly easier than most bif situations IMHO. Much larger target and usually a predictable path. Even so, I did not get the results I had hoped for at air shows. Some keepers for sure, but not what I wanted. I also tend to shoot as tight as possible so the slight, but noticeable EVF lag can hurt some tracking.



Oct 31, 2017 at 03:04 AM
 

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hauxon
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


My guess is we will have a BIF capable Fuji X kit when the XF 200/2 arrives alongside the X-T3 or X-T4. Expect to pay $8000+ for such a combo. :/

I used to do birding with 5D (classic) and 500/4.5L and 400/5.6. I think the X-T2 is not any worse than that. The 500/4.5 did work much better than the 400/5.6 and 500/4 L IS worked even better. When I got the 1DsII I finally had a body lens combo that was not awful for BIF. In my experience the lens has at least as much affect on the ability for BIF. Don't know if it was the added light or better focusing mechanism. I haven't used the XF 100-400 much for BIF, tried few times and it was hard. Could be the wrong settings, I don't know, but the 1 series Canon body worked perfectly for BIF off the shelf.



Oct 31, 2017 at 01:13 PM
molson
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


ajamils wrote:
The only mirrrorless camera that I'm confident about capturing BIF is Sony A9.


I suspect even that is a bit more hype than reality, considering the number of out-of-focus images posted on the various Sony forums - but it's hard to tell from internet forums whether the problem is the camera, the lens, or just user error.




Oct 31, 2017 at 04:28 PM
Bubble
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


i posted my experience couple months ago here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1506106/0#14166799

With the recent firmware update from XT2, BIF AF still not improve.



Nov 06, 2017 at 04:39 AM
Fred Amico
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


Guess I should jump back in. Here's a few BIF shots taken with the Fuji. I'm not a very experienced BIF shooter, but have been using both the Fuji and a D7200/200-500 zoom combo for some time, so can note some comparisons. I can get some decent shots with the Fuji, but I have to really work at it, and be pretty precise with my bird tracking.

For me, my keeper rate is much higher with the D7200 combo. G. Dan mentioned this above about the Fuji AF system not quite there yet, and I agree. The D7200 combo pretty much locked focus every time, while the Fuji gave me the red square about 20% of the time. I'm guessing this was partly my fault, as I had more trouble trying to keep the birds centered with the EVF, at which point the AF system couldn't find a subject with enough contrast to focus.

I love using my Fuji system for about 90% of what I do, but when it comes to BIF excursions, I now take the Nikon combo. My keeper rate goes up, and my frustration level goes down.

Edited to add that these were taken on a very overcast day, hence the high ISO numbers shown. Used manual exposure with auto ISO for both systems.




  X-T2    XF100-400mmF4.5-5.6 R LM OIS WR lens    291mm    f/6.4    1/1000s    3200 ISO    -0.3 EV  






  X-T2    XF100-400mmF4.5-5.6 R LM OIS WR lens    400mm    f/6.4    1/1000s    3200 ISO    -0.3 EV  






  X-T2    XF100-400mmF4.5-5.6 R LM OIS WR lens    301mm    f/6.4    1/1000s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  




Nov 06, 2017 at 05:01 AM
zimman
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


I had a talk with some Fuji people this past weekend. They agree that the X-T2 isn't quite there for BIF focusing. They also said that the next firmware upgrade should help to take care of this problem. There is a new algorithm for focusing that should be in the update. It could happen this month.


Nov 06, 2017 at 12:48 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


While I'm still going to stick to my DSLR for my bird photography, the examples above show that it is possible to get good, sharp photographs of birds in flight with the system.

Dan



Nov 06, 2017 at 03:18 PM
zimman
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


gdanmitchell, I have to agree that I will stick with my DSLR for birds in flight. I have no problem using the X-T2 with the stationary birds. I really hope that the firmware update will help us achieve a better percentage of keepers of BIF photos.


Nov 06, 2017 at 04:37 PM
pasblues
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


I'm a Fuji shooter also and love the X-T2. However, I also have *some* Sony gear and have an A7RIII on order. I'm wondering if its tracking is going to be as amazing as it appears at first glance. I was wondering if you are watching this camera body also? It's going to be very wintry here in the Midwest by the time I get my copy so I'm not sure what I'll be able to do outdoors with it. I'm just mentioning it in case it becomes a solution for you. Tamron has a killer long-range telephoto for Sony 150-600 G2 variable aperture. I haven't see that anyone has been able to try out this combination in the initial testing of the new A7RIII yet - but in the months ahead, I'm going to be watching for this to see if there is compatibility and performance.

On your success rate...I do think that boundary-less moving subject are highly difficult to shoot for anybody. EVERYBODY who shoots and gets better has to work hard, be patient and make adjustments. You are where you are with this and you will improve - some of it is technique and some of it is equipment. But certainly, drop any ideas that you might have that other people just went out and instantly took tons of great pictures. Uh-uh. Everybody struggles and has to work at this. EVERYBODY.



Nov 06, 2017 at 06:09 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · X-T2 Birds in Flight


For photographs such as those done on the XT2 above, you probably don't want to use an advanced AF tracking mode. The critters are fairly large, in the center of the frame, and with other subjects further away in the background. With too many AF points active there is a very good chance that the camera will attempt to AF on the wrong thing.

The equivalent of AI Servo mode on my Canon bodies is probably useful ó this is essentially a predictive AF mode that is always working, not waiting for a full shutter release depression before acquiring AF.

There are reasons to use other modes for photographs other than those of the sort shown here, but I'll leave that out for now.

Dan



Nov 06, 2017 at 08:15 PM
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