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DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom
  
 
Gary Clennan
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Fred Miranda wrote:
If you copy is indeed perfect, it's already worth $3,000!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1512663/0#14214721


Not enough...



Oct 13, 2017 at 06:29 PM
Neurad1
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Mark K wrote:
Have been convincing myself to get the 12-24...and this...


I'm liking my 12-24 a lot. But it's a challenge to use such a WA at its widest end, to be sure. It makes a very nice complement to the 24-70 2.8 GM. Lately I'm carrying the 12-12 on my A7II and the 24-70 2.8 on my A7RII, with the 70-300 in the bag for the rare long shot. Just me.

So far I have not really been too miffed by the filter situation with the 12-24, but continue to eye the Nisi system.



Oct 13, 2017 at 06:32 PM
RFisher
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


received my 16-35 2.8 a couple of weeks ago from B&H - an incredible lens - best of my six lenses for my needs


Oct 13, 2017 at 06:34 PM
mttran
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Holger wrote:
Your comments get weirder every time.

My DSLRs deliver. My A9, too. I recommend workshops showing you how to get sharp images with DSLRS. Not that difficult.

- Edited-


I have an impression that you have never had any oof from your dslr. I have a fair number of sharp one and lot of oof one from my 1/5 dseries (and all calibrated lenses) all the times, not weirds but scientific facts. I did not say that dslr can't deliver but the chances to have a best one is like picking a lottery. This is why dslr has MAF build in (but good only for fixed dof) and still required multiple shots to compensate the mirror(s) error(s). Don't believe me: try 35L,50L,85L...



Oct 13, 2017 at 06:47 PM
Messier77
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Gary Clennan wrote:
Not enough...


Well...how much is enough?



Oct 13, 2017 at 07:28 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Messier77 wrote:
Well...how much is enough?


Trust me on this. A zoom is never perfect throughout the entire range.
Send me a perfect zoom and I will prove that it's not.

BTW, by perfect, I really mean excellent.



Oct 13, 2017 at 08:07 PM
Messier77
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Fred Miranda wrote:
Trust me on this. A zoom is never perfect throughout the entire range.
Send me a perfect zoom and I will prove that it's not.

BTW, by perfect, I really mean excellent.


I know, but unfortunately there is quite a bit of copy-to-copy variation on the 16-35GM. A bad copy is noticeably worse than an excellent copy. So I'm looking for an excellent (but not perfect) copy.



Oct 13, 2017 at 08:13 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Haha - you guys are funny. Under certain conditions and testing, NO zoom/prime lens will ever be perfect. None. Perhaps better wording would have been "near perfect". Either way, this lens is a keeper and I highly recommend it. PS - the 12-24mm is turning out to have the same copy variation... And wait until the A9R is released - all our lenses will be pure garbage.


Oct 13, 2017 at 08:34 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Okay IMHO and take this for what’s it worth. Wait a couple months, Sony will realize somethings up and quietly fix it in production.


Oct 13, 2017 at 08:46 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


GMPhotography wrote:
Okay IMHO and take this for what’s it worth. Wait a couple months, Sony will realize somethings up and quietly fix it in production.


I sure hope so. We really shouldn't have to play the lottery when it comes to buying high $$ lenses.



Oct 13, 2017 at 08:55 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Holger
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


mttran wrote:
I have an impression that you have never had any oof from your dslr. I have a fair number of sharp one and lot of oof one from my 1/5 dseries (and all calibrated lenses) all the times, not weirds but scientific facts. I did not say that dslr can't deliver but the chances to have a best one is like picking a lottery. This is why dslr has MAF build in (but good only for fixed dof) and still required multiple shots to compensate the mirror(s) error(s). Don't believe me: try 35L,50L,85L...


The tenor of your posts was certainly not a balanced one, but more into ridiculing dslrs. People here know quite well about fine tuning. But you exaggerate and generalise greatly ("lottery", "fair number", "lot of oof"). I use fast lenses all the time at weddings and no, we don't have problems getting sharp images in the vast majority of times, as do lots of my colleagues we are in contact with. The number of oof shots is larger than with the A9 but not the issue you blow it up to. Otherwise the huge majority of pros would have used mirrorless starting their introduction, exclusively. The last to dslrs we mainly use(d) (D810, D750 and 5div) are(were) extremely reliable. You could use the 5div with dpaf, too, giving you efcs and similar accuracy if you need to be 100% sure. I don't say the MILCs don't have an advantage, They do. But it is not as blow up as you make it.



Oct 13, 2017 at 10:06 PM
umsl12
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Messier77 wrote:
Looks like they managed to snag a good copy for testing.

I'd pay a big premium ($3000) to purchase their test copy or another known excellent copy. See my long-lived and unloved WTB post. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1507642



I feel like today people buy lenses, test, return, buy, test, return.....to much. That why their new lenses are so expensive



Oct 13, 2017 at 10:46 PM
mttran
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Holger wrote:
The tenor of your posts was certainly not a balanced one, but more into ridiculing dslrs. People here know quite well about fine tuning. But you exaggerate and generalise greatly ("lottery", "fair number", "lot of oof"). I use fast lenses all the time at weddings and no, we don't have problems getting sharp images in the vast majority of times, as do lots of my colleagues we are in contact with. The number of oof shots is larger than with the A9 but not the issue you blow it up to. Otherwise the huge majority of pros would have used
...Show more

Believe whatever you want but let the number of oof periodic threads from each forum conceal which milc/dslr system is a better platform base for engineering model to grow. There are good number of reasons why Sony engineers broke those mirror(s) - why don't you start from there


Edited on Oct 13, 2017 at 11:21 PM · View previous versions



Oct 13, 2017 at 11:02 PM
chez
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


GMPhotography wrote:
Okay IMHO and take this for what’s it worth. Wait a couple months, Sony will realize somethings up and quietly fix it in production.


Wish they would notice something is up before they release the lens and generate bad press. Not very smart on Sony's part.



Oct 13, 2017 at 11:20 PM
Chris_88
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


I guess the questions should be either how much more are we all willing to pay to get fewer lemons of a particular lens or how long will it take for all lens manufacturers to adjust to the demand for lower tolerances in the age of 40-50 MP sensors?

I just looked at Roger's article again and I did not see any mention of the GM's variation versus the Canon equivalent, for instance. Sure, the variation of the GM at 35mm didn't look great and Roger wrote that the 12-24 had less variation than the 16-35 GM, but I wonder whether the GM is that much worse than the Canon or Nikon equivalents? After all, both Fred's experience with the 24-70's of Canon and Sony as well as Roger's tests have shown that variation is pretty similar.



Oct 14, 2017 at 12:02 AM
chez
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


Chris_88 wrote:
I guess the questions should be either how much more are we all willing to pay to get fewer lemons of a particular lens or how long will it take for all lens manufacturers to adjust to the demand for lower tolerances in the age of 40-50 MP sensors?

I just looked at Roger's article again and I did not see any mention of the GM's variation versus the Canon equivalent, for instance. Sure, the variation of the GM at 35mm didn't look great and Roger wrote that the 12-24 had less variation than the 16-35 GM, but I wonder
...Show more

Before I retired I managed a product line that included high speed sensors for the forestry industry. I can tell you it is much cheaper to have a good quality program in place to ensure the product going out is to a certain standard than having to deal with shoddy products coming back. The cost of shoddy product is not only the merchandise back on your shelves that needs to be reworked, but also the customers looking elsewhere after they get fed up.

Sigma understood this and has greatly improved the quality of their product, raised their prices slightly and now has a happy customer base and is doing well.

No one wins with shoddy products and the fact that companies like Zeiss have a better track record with their lenses shows it's not a technical hurdle in delivering quality product, but more a product philosophy. It's not like the GM lenses are the bottom of the barrel gear...they are some of the most costly lenses in their categories and I think it's high time Sony picks up their britches and delivers product to match their pricing.



Oct 14, 2017 at 12:22 AM
molson
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


mttran wrote:
^^^ but how we fix the unpredictable flapping mirror(s) that causes most oof in dslr regardless good or bad lenses.


Who cares? The only cameras I own that still have mirrors were made back in the early 1980's.



Oct 14, 2017 at 12:27 AM
davewolfs
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


How is it that DXO gets a good copy when everyone else gets a shitty one. Pretty sure lens rentals was clear that the Sony wasn’t any better than the Canon.


Oct 14, 2017 at 12:43 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


I found that starting at f/5.6, the FE 12-24G gives very similar performance when compared to the FE 16-35GM at infinity distance from 16 until 24mm.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1504846/8#14158417

The bottom-line is that Sony has two amazing ultra wides to choose from OR complement each other. However, I would think the FE 24-70GM would be a better complement to the FE 12-24G unless you need the f/2.8 aperture for the ultra wide range. (astro for example)

Great zoom and prime choices for those shooting landscapes.



Oct 14, 2017 at 12:44 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · DxOmark: FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, Highest-rated wide-angle zoom


davewolfs wrote:
How is it that DXO gets a good copy when everyone else gets a shitty one. Pretty sure lens rentals was clear that the Sony wasn’t any better than the Canon.


By the way they messed up with the 24-70GM review, I've lost complete trust in their assessments. I just post it because it was Friday and we need something to talk about.

From Roger's tests, the Canon is noticeably superior to the Sony at center throughout the entire range and that's the test I trust.
I am also absolutely convinced that Roger's optical bench tests are non-bias and independent.



Oct 14, 2017 at 12:45 AM
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