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Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist
  
 
kbarrera
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


It's been a while since I've dipped my toe into the B&S pool here at FM. As far as I'm concerned it's the best and only way to go. I've been at FM since 09'.....plenty of time to form an accurate assessment of how things go.
( 24 "Great" Feedbacks) Generally the average buyer and seller are exemplary.
I decided to do some serious house cleaning and sell everything that has not been used. I have, however, encountered a rash of, low ballers, unreturned pm's after the buyer contacted me, no feedback, retracted offers. By retracted, I mean. " sold ! Send me you PayPal account" only to be told, " Sorry, I changed my mind"
I own a construction company in the NYC, and no one has ever accused me of being overly sensitive or a whiner.
This behavior, to be honest, is pissing me off. I'm not sure if it's a sign of times, or is it just me.
Share your experiences, because I'd really like to know if it's " JUST ME"

Al


Edited on Oct 14, 2017 at 07:03 PM · View previous versions



Oct 13, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


I think there are a lot of explanations for what you were experiencing. I don't believe any of them can't explain all of what you are experiencing. I checked your post history and it looks like, without clicking on any of the actual posts, that you had at least one Canon lens that you were selling. The second hand market for Canon products right now is very depressed. I just sold off a ton of Canon gear and didn't get nearly what I thought I would for it in several cases. In fact, in a couple of cases, even after letting it sit for quite some time, my best offer was several hundred dollars less than what the same item was going for three or four months ago. There are a lot of people switching to Sony and Nikon, myself included, and that means there is a lot of competition for the same number of, or even fewer, buyers then there were a short while ago. This naturally leads to lower prices and thus, lower offers.
Regarding the buy and bail people, it is what it is, unfortunately. I don't ever leave anyone hanging, not that I remember anyway. But not everyone is the same as me or you. Many people see online sales no different than big box store sales. To them, just walking away isn't a big deal.



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:28 PM
Andrew J
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


It has been a buyers market for years and yes all that happens to me now.


Oct 13, 2017 at 04:14 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


Jonathan Brady wrote:
I think there are a lot of explanations for what you were experiencing. I don't believe any of them can't explain all of what you are experiencing. I checked your post history and it looks like, without clicking on any of the actual posts, that you had at least one Canon lens that you were selling. The second hand market for Canon products right now is very depressed. I just sold off a ton of Canon gear and didn't get nearly what I thought I would for it in several cases. In fact, in a couple of cases, even
...Show more

Actually in the last six weeks, I've had six buy or sell transactions. I understand that the market has changed for all camera equipment. The fact that the buyer has the upper hand does not excuse the fact that generally the ethics and conduct of a lot of buyers and sellers has deteriorated. It seems more prevelent in newer members. Like is said in my original post.....I'm not going to vent, but I am curious to hear from other members.

Al



Oct 14, 2017 at 02:15 AM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


I, too, have had a number of transactions recently and honestly, I haven't experienced any of what you're describing. But I certainly don't expect that my experience mirrors yours. The only thing I've experienced is not being able to get what I thought I could for various items. Hope things turn around for you!


Oct 14, 2017 at 09:37 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


Andrew J wrote:
It has been a buyers market for years and yes all that happens to me now.


I agree. I also agree that B&S has become, in some instances, a "CL" with scams, low ballers and just plain "nasty" people.
If you have the patience, you will get the buyer you want. I have removed a few SELL ads because of people "stuck on stupid" and think they deserve MY equipt at THEIR price. So I just pull the ad.
Dan




Oct 14, 2017 at 12:29 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


Ok.....I'm up to my seventh transaction in the last six weeks as a seller. Once again item shipped and delivered. Once again no communication. No " I got the item, inspected it and all is well" no feedback as well. I sent a friendly reminder and no Response.
Oh yeah.....I forgot to mention; it's a new member. I don't think this is my imagination. I really believe this is a trend that mirrors society in general. A general lack of courtesy

Al




Oct 18, 2017 at 10:04 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


for some of us, you have just named the primary reason we don't sell here anymore, or, if we do, just to very senior folks whose names you recognize without having to look them up via their profile, which for NOOBS are often blank. OTOH, don't be surprised if you get a note from said NOOB at some point 6 months down the line, whatever the now current time frame in which PayPal will allow for returns to Seller as SNAD (significantly not as described), and PP pulls the $ from your account and sends it on to them. Just sayin'


Oct 18, 2017 at 10:38 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


anthonysemone wrote:
for some of us, you have just named the primary reason we don't sell here anymore, or, if we do, just to very senior folks whose names you recognize without having to look them up via their profile, which for NOOBS are often blank. OTOH, don't be surprised if you get a note from said NOOB at some point 6 months down the line, whatever the now current time frame in which PayPal will allow for returns to Seller as SNAD (significantly not as described), and PP pulls the $ from your account and sends it on to them. Just
...Show more

I hear you. It's the main reason I expect the buyer to respond after receiving the item. I'm looking for written affirmation that the item was received and after inspection......is, advertised. At least then you have some recourse with PayPal.
Regarding feedback, you would think that the buyer would want reciprocal feedback. It only helps their reputation when it comes to buy and sell. Like I said. I think this is a general trend in society today. I've noticed a real decline in business ethics and courtesy with my younger customers. At least, there, my 43 years experience in the construction business is no match for their lack of ethics. No PayPal in my business. I'm actually considering leaving negative feedback for those who don't communicate or leave feedback.
Your thoughts?

Al






Oct 18, 2017 at 11:05 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


I hear ya Al. Had similar experience this past week. Made an offer to firm to do some training for them. It required confirmation so that fellow trainers could put in for time off. Three emails to the firm and one telephone call to firm, nothing back from them. So I cancelled them. Found out today they contracted with another firm. Bunch of assholes.

As to your question: has he left you feedback? If so, you could leave feedback for him. Hell yes. Not providing you with important information you need to have to make decisions on the basis of, seems to me thats important for other sellers to know about this guy. So, were it I? Id leave negative for him on that basis. Others here will chime in and say oh well, life happens. His mother fell on a glacier in the Antarctic and hes had to fly there to make sure she has a change of socks. But, hell be back. Or some such lame excuse on behalf of the buyer. Just my .02$



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:25 PM
 

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chez
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


kbarrera wrote:
I hear you. It's the main reason I expect the buyer to respond after receiving the item. I'm looking for written affirmation that the item was received and after inspection......is, advertised. At least then you have some recourse with PayPal.
Regarding feedback, you would think that the buyer would want reciprocal feedback. It only helps their reputation when it comes to buy and sell. Like I said. I think this is a general trend in society today. I've noticed a real decline in business ethics and courtesy with my younger customers. At least, there, my 43 years experience in the
...Show more

I would not leave any negative feedback for not communicating once he received the item. As long as communications were ok during the transaction and everything went fine, then the deal is over. You have your money...they have their gear.



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:54 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


anthonysemone wrote:
I hear ya Al. Had similar experience this past week. Made an offer to firm to do some training for them. It required confirmation so that fellow trainers could put in for time off. Three emails to the firm and one telephone call to firm, nothing back from them. So I cancelled them. Found out today they contracted with another firm. Bunch of assholes.

As to your question: has he left you feedback? If so, you could leave feedback for him. Hell yes. Not providing you with important information you need to have to make decisions on the basis of, seems
...Show more

Ok....so now we're venting. Your story is very typical for anyone who is envolved in any type of business. Buying or selling camera equipment, even on a forum is a business transaction. There are expectations, etiquette and basic unspoken rules. I have read other threads in which some members do have that "get over it" mentality. They're probably right. I guess if you don't like the program, then don't watch it. What I propose is a less politically correct feedback system. If a buyer or seller jerks you around on a sale, he or she should be called out on it. As I said before, a potential buyer asked me for my PayPal account only to back out and buy another lens. I should be able to leave a negative feedback for that transaction. Maybe these people would think twice about the way they do business

Al



Oct 19, 2017 at 12:09 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


kbarrera wrote:
If a buyer or seller jerks you around on a sale, he or she should be called out on it. As I said before, a potential buyer asked me for my PayPal account only to back out and buy another lens. I should be able to leave a negative feedback for that transaction. Maybe these people would think twice about the way they do business

Al

I concur!




Oct 19, 2017 at 01:25 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


chez wrote:
I would not leave any negative feedback for not communicating once he received the item. As long as communications were ok during the transaction and everything went fine, then the deal is over. You have your money...they have their gear.


I disagree. The deal is Far from over ! I had a buyer tell me that after three weeks of no communication, he still hadn't gotten around to evaluating the lens. There's a huge difference between inspecting and evaluating. Does evaluating mean, I let you know if I like it or not ? How do I know where that lens has been and what the buyer's been doing with it. I call B.S. on that. When you get the item, you open the packing, inspect it, run it through its paces and notify the seller that.....yes, all is well. " The item is what you described". Not, " I'll let you know in a month if I like it, and whether I'll keep it" if this attitude becomes the norm here, then I'm gone. Right now I've been waiting four days since delivery, to hear from a buyer that he received the lens and the deal is done. What I'm getting is no communication what' so ever, let alone feedback. Second time this month !!!!

Al







Oct 19, 2017 at 08:13 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


I give my buyer max of a week, usually 72 hrs, to evaluate the item. After that "sing loi", it's yours!


Oct 20, 2017 at 12:30 PM
GOVA
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


Yep. It's been buyers market mostly. This has no control over what is going on so it's been self-sustaining forum. People still do use it but many, myself included, have used eB site to deal with shortcomings of dealing here. It is quite simple really, if you don't want to struggle with certain aspects of FM buy/sale, auction your stuff and pay their fees.


Oct 25, 2017 at 05:46 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


I just listed my 300 f/4 on EBay. At least I won't have to deal with low ballers, unreturned pm's
" I changed my mind" or " I let you know in three weeks if I still want it"
And so forth.

Al



Oct 25, 2017 at 10:18 PM
Etherton
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


All buyers and sellers are not equal. I've had many people not bother to post FB after the transaction is over. I usually send them a follow up request and if they do, they do and if they don't they don't. Threatening negative FB for not leaving FB is enough to avoid future transactions with an individual, IMO. Too much potential drama.

As far as eBay, lol, would rather deal with FM members any day of the week. Even the newer ones. 168+ and counting. Albeit, I ship quick with good communication - usually getting the same in return. Vet your sales - talk to them on the phone.



Oct 25, 2017 at 10:41 PM
kbarrera
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


Etherton wrote:
All buyers and sellers are not equal. I've had many people not bother to post FB after the transaction is over. I usually send them a follow up request and if they do, they do and if they don't they don't. Threatening negative FB for not leaving FB is enough to avoid future transactions with an individual, IMO. Too much potential drama.


My issue is not with FB. It's about the lack of communication once the item gets there. How long does it take to send a PM once you get the item, to confirm they received the item, all is well and the transaction is done.
It's very similar in my business, when a customer wants some work done, it's like their phone is glued to their ear. Once the job is done and they owe me money, the communication stops. Lack of basic courtesy.
To be honest......it pisses me off.

Al



Oct 25, 2017 at 11:35 PM
mogud
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Buy & Sell turning into Craigslist


The B&S forum here has changed significantly along with some of the gear forums. Because of the PayPal "returns policy", I wouldn't sell here at all. Lots of re-sellers which have turned the B&S board into a compromising place to sell anything.

The original purpose of having the B&S forum was a place where members could buy and sell their gear without the aggrevation of lowballers, re-sellers and impolite dreamers. Just sayin.....

Edited on Oct 27, 2017 at 03:54 AM · View previous versions



Oct 26, 2017 at 08:16 PM
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