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FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton
  
 
Dooley
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p.30 #1 · p.30 #1 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


twelveish wrote:
I have a stress test of sorts, in a previous post of this same page. The one with the sun in the frame? I've edited that for pf, but I'd be happy to send you the raw file if you want to have a look. It has a lot of pf in the branches.


Hello,

I would be interested to see the non-edited version of that shot. From the Flickr group I understand this was taken at f4.0, I would expect the PF to be a non-issue at that aperture. Would you mind sharing the original?

Still can't wrap my head around this PF - I was so excited again but that last picture on the playground got me concerned again

Thanks!




Nov 08, 2017 at 09:40 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.30 #2 · p.30 #2 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


The M-mount version got a release date in Japan now, it's 22nd of November.

http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-40mm1_2/index.html



Nov 09, 2017 at 12:29 AM
Luvwine
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p.30 #3 · p.30 #3 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I too was worried about PF, but after realizing that the sliders in Lightroom make short work of the problem in all cases I have encountered so far, it worries me not at all at this point.


Nov 09, 2017 at 01:53 AM
zaphodm
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p.30 #4 · p.30 #4 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Juha Kannisto wrote:
The M-mount version got a release date in Japan now, it's 22nd of November.

http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigtlander/vm-mount/vm-40mm1_2/index.html


Interestingly, the lens diagrams (when compared in Photoshop) look virtually identical for the E-mount & M-mount versions.



Nov 09, 2017 at 02:28 AM
rscheffler
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p.30 #5 · p.30 #5 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I doubt the M mount version will be optically different. I think this is also the case with the 15/4.5 v3 and probably the new 12 and 10mm too. The M version of the 15 was shown to be a slightly better performer on Sony than on Leica M (assuming a good copy). Likely there is less of a tradeoff to make it a good lens on Sony, which should mean it retains similar performance on a thinner sensor stack camera. One question though is why they didn't seem to do this with the 35/1.7...?

Then again, it may only take minute changes to one or two lens surfaces or lens spacing for 'good enough' optimization for each sensor type. Looking at Leica's block diagrams for the new vs. old 28 Cron and 28 Elmarit ASPHs, one would be hard pressed to see any design differences, yet there are definitely real-world performance differences, both on digital M and the SL.

I'm tempted by the M-mount version...



Nov 09, 2017 at 03:57 AM
DavidBM
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p.30 #6 · p.30 #6 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


rscheffler wrote:
I doubt the M mount version will be optically different. I think this is also the case with the 15/4.5 v3 and probably the new 12 and 10mm too. The M version of the 15 was shown to be a slightly better performer on Sony than on Leica M (assuming a good copy). Likely there is less of a tradeoff to make it a good lens on Sony, which should mean it retains similar performance on a thinner sensor stack camera. One question though is why they didn't seem to do this with the 35/1.7...?

I'm tempted by the M-mount version...
...Show more

I guess two reasons.
One is that ultra wide lenses are more likely to be used on Sony than on Leica, because of auxiliary finders.

Second is that the 1.7/35 is a little older, when they likely thought Leica the primary target (and Leica shooters like 35mm lenses), and being quite fast is going to have a lot of field curvature visible on the non-optimised sensor, so they had to choose rather than compromise...



Nov 09, 2017 at 04:10 AM
philber
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p.30 #7 · p.30 #7 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


[Slightly OT] Interesting to see Voigtlšnder spreading designs across both the FE and the M platforms. Not unlike Zeiss re-using M-mount ZM designs for their Loxias. The only companies that can't do that are Sony and Leica . I'll have to ask Zeiss whether they have any plans to release the ZM 35 f:1.4 for the FE mount...


Nov 09, 2017 at 05:35 AM
philip_pj
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p.30 #8 · p.30 #8 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


'.. across both the FE and the M platforms.'

Yeah, I noticed this with interest. Smart move, as many users are using both platforms. Re the ZM 35/1.4, it's strong, real strong. Almost Milvus 35mm levels of goodness, in fact, with a third less complexity. It's down just 3-4% at f4, plus a little curvature in the mid field. At f1.4, it's actually noticeably better, and a bit more even. Less than half the distortion, but both are good. Bit more vignette, a small price to pay. And the big win - 381 grams!

I've never tried to like that one, figuring it was out from the get-go (I can't do the front filters and sensor mods etc. I agree with Phillip Reeve on the issue) but it may at least point the way to what they can do if they want to, that is. They would sell a stack of those re-purposed for Sony with the same glass type mix inside, less money due to volume projections. It's already a very useful lens with serious advantages over the FE 35/1.4 - (i) half a pound lighter (240g), (ii) much smaller and (iii) manual focus levels of core body strength for longevity, and (iv) Zeiss levels of QA.

In a boxing match we call that a knockout, not even a TKO. Broader usage range too, the FE is (the way I see it) more of a specialist lens for wide open. Zeiss can't bring themselves to do such a thing, bless their beating hearts, lol. Then again, the CY 35/1.4 was best used that way.

I came cross a company reference to sensor thickness as targets with respect to Zeiss's ZE and ZF lens ranges. The gist was that Zeiss make them 'compatible with both', the implication I took away that they average the difference, or similar.



Nov 09, 2017 at 06:52 AM
philber
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p.30 #9 · p.30 #9 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Philip, I used the 35 ZM f:1.4 without mod or filter on my A7R and A7RII, and, though it wasn't perfect, it does yield amazing IQ. You say "almost Milvus level of goodness", I say, if you leave out of the equation the issues due to compatibility, "Otus-land levels of goodness, with extra charm to boot". I know that this is not fair, since Otus designs are so intensely aimed at avoiding any weakness, and I give the 35 ZM a pass on this, but still... And, as you know, I am not alone in this opinion.


Nov 09, 2017 at 07:08 AM
DavidBM
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p.30 #10 · p.30 #10 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


philber wrote:
Philip, I used the 35 ZM f:1.4 without mod or filter on my A7R and A7RII, and, though it wasn't perfect, it does yield amazing IQ. You say "almost Milvus level of goodness", I say, if you leave out of the equation the issues due to compatibility, "Otus-land levels of goodness, with extra charm to boot". I know that this is not fair, since Otus designs are so intensely aimed at avoiding any weakness, and I give the 35 ZM a pass on this, but still... And, as you know, I am not alone in this opinion.


Some folk I know claim to have talked to Zeiss folk who hint at a kind of short flange distance Otus quality fast series starting with 1.4/35. Not just a port of the ZM (or indeed of any Otus) but designed from scratch. Maybe because of short flange similar in size or not much larger than ZM. Donít know how reliable this is....

Pity if true. Personally Iíd prefer to see Otus quality or better at slower speeds like a super-Loxia series



Nov 09, 2017 at 07:33 AM
 

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philber
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p.30 #11 · p.30 #11 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I'll see if Christophe Cazenave, the Zeiss Product Manager has made it to the Salon de la Photo, and if he is less tight-lipped than usual. But don't get your hopes up, he is a pro and knows what not to say...


Nov 09, 2017 at 08:04 AM
zaphodm
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p.30 #12 · p.30 #12 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


GMPhotography wrote:
I'm also not sure a great reason to have the M version unless your shooting a Leica as well


For me, it's the ability to use it on the TAP when I want.



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:24 AM
Taylor Sherman
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p.30 #13 · p.30 #13 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton



Ninox perhaps? 😜
DavidBM wrote:
Some folk I know claim to have talked to Zeiss folk who hint at a kind of short flange distance Otus quality fast series starting with 1.4/35. Not just a port of the ZM (or indeed of any Otus) but designed from scratch. Maybe because of short flange similar in size or not much larger than ZM. Donít know how reliable this is....

Pity if true. Personally Iíd prefer to see Otus quality or better at slower speeds like a super-Loxia series




Nov 09, 2017 at 04:27 PM
twelveish
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p.30 #14 · p.30 #14 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Dooley wrote:
I would be interested to see the non-edited version of that shot. From the Flickr group I understand this was taken at f4.0, I would expect the PF to be a non-issue at that aperture. Would you mind sharing the original?


No problem. Sent you a pm with link.



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:15 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.30 #15 · p.30 #15 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


philber wrote:
Philip, I used the 35 ZM f:1.4 without mod or filter on my A7R and A7RII, and, though it wasn't perfect, it does yield amazing IQ. You say "almost Milvus level of goodness", I say, if you leave out of the equation the issues due to compatibility, "Otus-land levels of goodness, with extra charm to boot". I know that this is not fair, since Otus designs are so intensely aimed at avoiding any weakness, and I give the 35 ZM a pass on this, but still... And, as you know, I am not alone in this opinion.


I can second this. Used the ZM 35 1.4 extensively for about 9 months, lots if before the front end filter stuff. It's a killer lens, just have to work around some stuff before f4 without filters. But still seriously usable and lovely lens.






















Edited on Nov 09, 2017 at 09:27 PM · View previous versions



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:21 PM
rji2goleez
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p.30 #16 · p.30 #16 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


nehemiahphoto wrote:
I can second this. Used the ZM 35 1.4 extensively for about 9 months, lots if before the front end filter stuff. It's a killer lens, just have to work around some stuff before f4 without filters. But still seriously usable and lovely lens.


BTW - A little self promotion but I currently have one for sale in the B&S, like new condition!



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:25 PM
Luvwine
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p.30 #17 · p.30 #17 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


rji2goleez wrote:
BTW - A little self promotion but I currently have one for sale in the B&S, like new condition!


Me too! Mine comes with an opto-sigma front lens. I am also selling TAP as I have decided to go all native (well, aside from long glass) and thus don't need my TAP anymore....



Nov 09, 2017 at 09:52 PM
sebboh
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p.30 #18 · p.30 #18 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


philber wrote:
Philip, I used the 35 ZM f:1.4 without mod or filter on my A7R and A7RII, and, though it wasn't perfect, it does yield amazing IQ. You say "almost Milvus level of goodness", I say, if you leave out of the equation the issues due to compatibility, "Otus-land levels of goodness, with extra charm to boot". I know that this is not fair, since Otus designs are so intensely aimed at avoiding any weakness, and I give the 35 ZM a pass on this, but still... And, as you know, I am not alone in this opinion.


nehemiahphoto wrote:
I can second this. Used the ZM 35 1.4 extensively for about 9 months, lots if before the front end filter stuff. It's a killer lens, just have to work around some stuff before f4 without filters. But still seriously usable and lovely lens.


yeah, the zm 35/1.4 is still a great lens on a sony, but performance is much better on a leica or modded sony. hopefully the same will be true for the m-mount 40/1.2 (as it is for the 35/1.7).




Nov 09, 2017 at 09:59 PM
DavidBM
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p.30 #19 · p.30 #19 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


sebboh wrote:
yeah, the zm 35/1.4 is still a great lens on a sony, but performance is much better on a leica or modded sony. hopefully the same will be true for the m-mount 40/1.2 (as it is for the 35/1.7).



I doubt it: the performance of the 1.2/40 given its size and speed on Sony is so decent that I think it must be as optimised for Sony as possible. In which case I'm guessing the M mount version will either perform about the same on Leica (if it is differently optimised) or worse (if it is optically the same). I think the 1.7/35 is likely the last primarily M optimised fast lens we will see from CV judging from what I've heard about relative sales....



Nov 09, 2017 at 10:10 PM
sebboh
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p.30 #20 · p.30 #20 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


DavidBM wrote:
I doubt it: the performance of the 1.2/40 given its size and speed on Sony is so decent that I think it must be as optimised for Sony as possible. In which case I'm guessing the M mount version will either perform about the same on Leica (if it is differently optimised) or worse (if it is optically the same). I think the 1.7/35 is likely the last primarily M optimised fast lens we will see from CV judging from what I've heard about relative sales....


oh, are the e-mounts outselling the m-mounts for the most part?




Nov 09, 2017 at 10:15 PM
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