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FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


That's tasty David!

This image bothered me today. I have not seen this level of purple fringing since my EF 85/1.2L days!









This is straight from the camera!




Oct 13, 2017 at 04:18 AM
davewolfs
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Some more samples.

http://mypace.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/10/10/210920

Will add some too this weekend. Great work Fred!



Oct 13, 2017 at 04:27 AM
DavidBM
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's tasty David!

This image bothered me today. I have not seen this level of purple fringing since my EF 85/1.2L days!


Yep; nasty! But does clean up largely by f2...



Oct 13, 2017 at 04:33 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Fred Miranda wrote:
Sunstar Rendering

Personally I'm a big fan of lenses with aperture made of 10-straight-blades for well-definined 10-point sunstars.

You should really update your logo, six aperture blades are so 70s



Oct 13, 2017 at 05:56 AM
GMPhotography
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Iím not so sure I have seen anything this bad. You can say what you want but there is no way of getting around that fringing. Between this onion rings and lemons, Iím starting to get a headache. I always have to think about post work as many times Iím under he gun with clients to getting finals fast. I donít have time always fix this stuff. Iím actually kind of shocked considering how good the new 65 APO is compared to this. It really does have some nice qualities in just not sure they outweigh the problems we are seeing. Iím pretty sensitive to onion rings especially but this fringing is just not good folks. I actually have 3 CV lenses out of 8 so I am a big fan of Cosina. Just not sure on this one. I just canít do it


Oct 13, 2017 at 06:30 AM
sebbe
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I just want to thank you, David and Juha for the excellent work all of you did/do. There is a lot of vital information. Especially for such a complex lens there is a need (for enthusiasts like me) to have a neutral and professional review. Otherwise we would struggle to get the beauty out of the lens.


Oct 13, 2017 at 07:28 AM
DavidBM
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


GMPhotography wrote:
Iím not so sure I have seen anything this bad. You can say what you want but there is no way of getting around that fringing. Between this onion rings and lemons, Iím starting to get a headache. I always have to think about post work as many times Iím under he gun with clients to getting finals fast. I donít have time always fix this stuff. Iím actually kind of shocked considering how good the new 65 APO is compared to this. It really does have some nice qualities in just not sure they outweigh the problems we are
...Show more

I dont know if Iíll keep it, Guy. Everything you say about the nasties is true.
But. Thereís no other way to get this look at this FL, and we know about the nasties and the conditions under which they occur. So by avoiding those conditions we can avoid the nasties to a large degree.
And Iím not surprised by them, to avoid them at f 1,2 would surely mean a lens 50% percent bigger than an Otus at f1.4!
Whether the trade off works for us individually though, is a very individual matter...



Oct 13, 2017 at 10:54 AM
GMPhotography
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Agree there are some workarounds involved and you need to know what this lens can and canít do so you can use it to your advantage. Why these tests are important. It is also a interesting focal length which would really gap for me better having a 28 and 65. 35/28 is a little close


Oct 13, 2017 at 11:36 AM
trogdon
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Would someone mind posting a mid distance shot to compare the look against a 35 1.4 (with the voigt at 1.2) I use this length for environmental portraits, curious how the Voigtlander 40 stands up in terms of the bokeh, and the difference in how wide they are from each other. I've got the sigma 35 1.4 which I enjoy the look of, but it's a mammoth of a lens


Oct 13, 2017 at 02:21 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's tasty David!

This image bothered me today. I have not seen this level of purple fringing since my EF 85/1.2L days!


Fast Voigtlander lenses have always been brutal when it comes to purple fringing. Looks like this lens is no exception. That coma is also terrible but for a daylight/lowlight type lens, it looks to be worth a try!



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:27 PM
 

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jhinkey
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Unfortunately for me, the 40/1.2 wide open PF reminds me of old Nikon lens designs that had this behavior in spades. As someone said, there are likely compromises to be made for cramming such a fast lens in such a compact form.

Unfortunately for me I need to shoot all my lenses both wide open and stopped down. Wide open I usually accept some optical compromises, but stopped down they better be pretty damned good, especially for $1K. Who knows what we could have gotten for a $1.5K or $2K lens design . . .

I asked the local pro shop behind-the-counter guys if they are planning on carrying the Voigtlander line of native E mount lenses - and of course they had no clue. Need to talk to the owner and make the request personally - she's usually pretty receptive. Then perhaps I can try it out myself to see if I can live with it's "non-perfect" character.



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:59 PM
jhinkey
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Gary Clennan wrote:
Fast Voigtlander lenses have always been brutal when it comes to purple fringing. Looks like this lens is no exception. That coma is also terrible but for a daylight/lowlight type lens, it looks to be worth a try!


Well, even my 90/3.5 APO has moderate PF wide open. Though a couple of clicks in ACR and it's gone. My 85/1.8 Sony also has this in severe cases, which usually can be fixed.

BUT, if the PF is bad enough the software fix can do some damage to the IQ in extreme cases.

Flare and ghosting can really mess up an image if using it for landscape-like purposes (or if there are bright lights in the scene, say for a city night shot).

My experience with f/1.2 lenses are the 50/1.2 Nikkor and the 42.5/1.2 PL. The 50/1.2 was major character wide open while being pretty darned usable. Stopped down a bit it was also pretty darned sharp across the frame - I just could not accurately focus it on my darned DSLRs. The 42.5/1.2 PL is just a wonder of optical engineering as several times I've accidentally shot a landscape image wide open and could not see any issues unless looking at 100% on a 16MP sensor (admittedly not incredibly demanding, but still).



Oct 13, 2017 at 03:18 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I post processed a bunch of images from last Monday and posted them here, in case people are interested in more image (taken with A7r and A9):

https://plus.google.com/+JuhaKannisto/posts/BzdjeXQ1j8U

Some were actually already in one of the samples albums I posted earlier (that included 100 A7r OOC shots) but now they are processed. These were pretty much all shot at f4 or at f1.7-f2.0 at daytime (one seems to be at f1.2).



Oct 13, 2017 at 04:12 PM
twomblywhite
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton




Phillip Reeve wrote:
You should really update your logo, six aperture blades are so 70s


Kind of like the hairstyle of the guy in your avatar...



Oct 13, 2017 at 04:35 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


I just received an email regarding the extreme fringing this lens is prone when shooting at wider apertures in areas of high contrast.

It was assumed that this is happening because Adobe does not have a profile for this lens just yet. However, this is not the case because this is not caused by lateral chromatic aberration. It's "axial" (LoCA) and won't be minimized with a simple lens profile.​ ​One would have​ ​to use a manual​ ​longitudinal CA's defringe tool.

In other words, the ​"​R​emove chromatic aberrations auto-fix" and "defringe tool" are two completely independent features.

These types of color aberration can be manually reduced in post but in software, it merely replaces the color (magenta or green) by 'gray'. So, the fringing remains but it will be less noticeably. (colorless)

As I wrote previously, imo, this is the expected behavior for a very fast (f/1.2) compact lens. I was just hoping for a miracle.

Below you will find what to expect by fixing this in Lightroom.

The first image shows LR's "reduce chromatic aberration" automated option (which is the one a profile would use)
The second is the correction using LR's defringe tool. (This has to be done manually as values change from image to image)







LR's R​emove chromatic aberrations auto-fix. (It has no effect here)






LR's defringe tool. Notice that I only reduced the magenta fringing. The green would have to be reduced as well.




Oct 13, 2017 at 06:37 PM
Jonas B
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


GMPhotography wrote:
Iím not so sure I have seen anything this bad. You can say what you want but there is no way of getting around that fringing.(...)


---------------------------------------------

Gary Clennan wrote:
Fast Voigtlander lenses have always been brutal when it comes to purple fringing. Looks like this lens is no exception. (...)


---------------------------------------------

jhinkey wrote:
Unfortunately for me, the 40/1.2 wide open PF reminds me of old Nikon lens designs that had this behavior in spades. (...)


So, what do you guys think about this image:





Taken at f/1.4 but obviously with the lens pointed towards larger structures than twigs.
The image below is taken at f/2 and is a little better:






I agree Voigtlšnders tend to fringe. I also totally dislike the purple/magenta haze they (I'm thinking about the 35/1.2 for example) sometimes pollute the images with. The two images above, however, are taken with a Zeiss lens... I linked to images from a review of the ZM 35/1.4 (without asking dearsusan, please forgive me Philippe).
It would be interesting to see the same image taken with the 40/1.2 and then to read the comments... I'm not sure Voigtlšnder is that bad when compared.




Oct 13, 2017 at 08:17 PM
jhinkey
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Yep, the Zeiss is not that great either in the area of PF.


Oct 14, 2017 at 02:46 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Rendering at Mid-distance:

The CV 40/1.2 focuses very close and that combined with f/1.2 aperture just melts the background away.

How about OOF rendering at mid-distance?

Here is a quick comparison showing background rendering at 3m:





Bottom at f/1.2 | Top at f/1.7




Oct 14, 2017 at 03:36 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Also at 3m distance:




Bottom at f/1.2 | Top at f/1.4






Bottom at f/1.7 | Top at f/2




Oct 14, 2017 at 03:39 AM
BastianK
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · FM Review of the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 Nokton


Fred Miranda wrote:
Also at 3m distance:

I feared the field curvature may lead to bokeh issues as can be seen with rangefinder wide angle lenses,
but luckily this seems not to be the case here.


Edited on Oct 14, 2017 at 08:49 AM · View previous versions



Oct 14, 2017 at 06:10 AM
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