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Grand Canyon of the East
  
 
lighthound
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Grand Canyon of the East


This is my main keeper image from last week's NY trip and will be printing large.

This image is from Letchworth SP which was always (and still is) my favorite State Park. I lived about 20 minutes from this amazing place.

I was going to crop the sides to remove the stone walls because at first I thought they were a distraction. However, the boss told me she liked them and after processing this image for a while, I think they actually do add to the composition by creating the "V" that leads us into the wide open canyon below.
But... I could be just smoking crack and have been looking at the image too long. IDK

Would like any and all comments you all could share with me on this one as I want to get it right before print.
I spent a great deal of time going back and forth on reducing the saturation then bringing a little back. I do want rich colors but I don't want it overcooked so please share your thoughts on this as well.

Dave






Letchworth Big Bend

  Canon EOS 6D Mark II    EF16-35mm f/4L IS USM lens    24mm    f/11.0    1/100s    50 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 12, 2017 at 03:09 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Grand Canyon of the East


Looks like a lovely scene to be enjoyed.

As to the stone wall / "V" (boss notwithstanding) ...

Lose the road, on the left.
Lose the symmetry of the two stone walls
Personal preference is to retain a portion of the wall on the right (maybe all), but lose a portion (maybe all) of the wall on the left.

Saturation looks okay, but the foreground looks a tad bright. I get that the lighting is coming over the top, and it is going to be brighter than down below. Actually, it looks pretty good ... EXCEPT, that it pulls us kinda to the FG / away from the main attraction. It might need just a touch more tweaking on the relationship of tonal value between the FG and the other areas ... subtle, judicious tweaking, maybe (i.e. nothing heavy handed / over the top).

I took a stab at shifting the color just a touch warmer to offset some of the cooler tones in the bend, and present a bit of the warmth. Tried to open up the "tree tops" down below, for some lighting that might have been "grazing" them. No effort to open it up widespread, just a kiss of accent to break up the darker mass a smidgen.

Fussed around with the crop a bit ... that'll be a preference call. My .02 was that I want to see into the scene, and still have just a bit on the right to let you know that you could go for a walk to further explore the vantage point. The road ... nixed it and most of the stone wall (leading us out or frame). Imo, this about me and being there (i.e. not getting there or leaving). I left just a smidge of the stone on the left (to get the trees), but not enough to pull us out of frame, and the lighter band of cliff (left side) picks up the (implied) line to guide us back in, as well. I might like to crop a bit more of the right side just a touch, but that's not critical (i.e. preference).

Mostly, I wanted to show you an an example of how changing from (ping-pong ) symmetrical to asymmetrical relationship between the walls alters the way you move throughout the scene. Your call as to how much (or none) you want to rebalance that relationship

Personal preference aside (and a yearning to open up the bend a bit more) ... a lovely scene with a lot of puzzle pieces. As always, S&P to taste ... and your desired message to be conveyed.

Btw, you might want to test print some sections for tonality before going $$$$ on the final print. Judging on monitor vs. judging print can be kinda diff. Ben & Scott can probably give better guidance in that area.








Oct 12, 2017 at 07:10 AM
sbeme
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Grand Canyon of the East


Beautiful Dave! Definitely PrintWorthy.
I like the original but I can see why Kent suggested the crop. It encloses and reinforces the shape of the butte.
I would say the colors look natural. I would be tempted to bump the sat/vibrance a bit for more pop, but it is a stylistic choice.
I assume this is somewhere central NY state, Finger Lakes Region, but I am not aware of the beauty of this location. Close to your boyhood home?

Scott



Oct 12, 2017 at 11:01 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Grand Canyon of the East


Btw ... she's a beaut, or is that a butte.


Oct 12, 2017 at 02:26 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Grand Canyon of the East


RustyBug wrote:
Looks like a lovely scene to be enjoyed.

As to the stone wall / "V" (boss notwithstanding) ...

Lose the road, on the left.
Lose the symmetry of the two stone walls
Personal preference is to retain a portion of the wall on the right (maybe all), but lose a portion (maybe all) of the wall on the left.

Saturation looks okay, but the foreground looks a tad bright. I get that the lighting is coming over the top, and it is going to be brighter than down below. Actually, it looks pretty good ... EXCEPT, that it pulls us kinda to the FG /
...Show more


Ok... Now this is getting scary Kent! Nearly everything you just suggested for tweaks I had already done almost exactly as you described. This is reassuring by knowing that some of what you folks have been teaching me is finally starting to sink in a little.
It sounds like I was on the right track but could push and pull things just a smidgen more.
I had reduced the FG brightness and brought up the bottom of the canyon a little and then did a little dodging on the tree tops down there to make them pop a little and give more depth.

One thing I did completely opposite though was that I cooled parts of the canyon because after I set my color balance things looked too warm and seemed like everything was melting together. A loss of depth or tonal separation if you will. I'll have to wait until I'm on a good monitor to study your edit. On my crap monitor right now I can't see much difference.

The scene was very dark when I shot this pano sequence and the canyon floor was nearly completely dark. This image is comprised from 35 separate frames. 7 sets of verticals each shot as 5 bracketed frames. I could have gotten by with fewer brackets but I wasn't about to take any chances as it's a long drive to make for a reshoot.
And the blends came out perfectly by not having large steps between frames. At over 1GB my system is choking just a little while processing this one.

I like the crop suggestion. I can't believe I never even considered just cropping the one side like that. Amazing how we can become blind to simple things like that. I suspect the boss might even like it.

I'll definitely be trying some small test prints before sending this out for print. I have a fear of prints not matching what I see on my screen and is the main reason I rarely ever print. I've even downloaded various print labs ICC profiles to try to soft proof but even those make my images look flat and dull.


Dave
---------------------------------------------

sbeme wrote:
Beautiful Dave! Definitely PrintWorthy.
I like the original but I can see why Kent suggested the crop. It encloses and reinforces the shape of the butte.
I would say the colors look natural. I would be tempted to bump the sat/vibrance a bit for more pop, but it is a stylistic choice.
I assume this is somewhere central NY state, Finger Lakes Region, but I am not aware of the beauty of this location. Close to your boyhood home?

Scott


Thanks Scott! Good to know I didn't overcook it and might even have a little more wiggle room.
Yes, this park is near the finger lakes which is where I called home until I moved south 20 years ago. Even after all these years, it still feels like home when I go back up there. I don't think SC will ever feel like home. My Mom and Dad are just a short walk from where this image was shot so it has special meaning to me.

Dave



Oct 12, 2017 at 04:03 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Grand Canyon of the East


Dave, this is a great image and I am fine with the original, I love these old stone walls. The road could simple be a sidewalk or just plain dirt, hard to tell so it doesn't bother me. I think for print you will need to brighten some of the greens just above the water, but it depends on your printer.

I think the saturation is fine and thi sold saturation lover might even bump it a bit.

Great image, a true wall hanger.



Oct 12, 2017 at 06:00 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Grand Canyon of the East


Thanks for the kind words Ben! I kinda thought you might like this one. It's the closest to a western vista as we have here on the east cost.

Below is my edit taking most of the comments into consideration. I softened it and tried for more muted tones but with a little kick attempting to bring out some richness. I suspect I will need to brighten it a bit before sending it out for print.

Of course I screwed up and have made all these changes to a downsized TIFF file rather than my full sized image, but I think I can reproduce them onto the big boy. At least get it close I hope.

Let me know what you think. Better or worse? Or somewhere in between.

Dave




edit 1




Oct 12, 2017 at 11:39 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Grand Canyon of the East


lighthound wrote:
Better or worse?


Kinda hard to go wrong anyway you go ... it'll be mostly YOUR preference. But, that said, the color you brought out in the tree tops is a +1 imo.

Your crop on the left looks fine, too.



Oct 13, 2017 at 12:23 AM
DaleBerlin
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Grand Canyon of the East


Stunning image Dave really nice. Here are my 2 cents which are worth nothing:
I like your last version best. I like how you lightened the canyon floor.
I like the softer look except for the glowing bright sky area.
I like this crop.

If this were mine (which I wish it was), I would experiment with the following:
1) Adding warm light to the bright area of cliff on left.
2) Adding warm light to the bright side of the tree trunks on the left.
3) Perhaps darkening the foreground a tad.
4) Make the rapids in the river brighter. Just the white dots.

Great shot.



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:06 AM
lylejk
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Grand Canyon of the East


Just an excuse to fake an hdr.








Oct 13, 2017 at 05:47 AM
 

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lighthound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Grand Canyon of the East


RustyBug wrote:
Kinda hard to go wrong anyway you go ... it'll be mostly YOUR preference. But, that said, the color you brought out in the tree tops is a +1 imo.

Your crop on the left looks fine, too.


I hear ya Kent and thanks for the confirmations. I'll probably add a few more subtle tweaks before sending it out but wanted to get collective thoughts from my fellow photog's. Getting input from the boss is like pulling teeth and I usually risk losing a few (teeth) whenever I ask her to take look and give me her thoughts.

Dave

---------------------------------------------

DaleBerlin wrote:
Stunning image Dave really nice. Here are my 2 cents which are worth nothing:
I like your last version best. I like how you lightened the canyon floor.
I like the softer look except for the glowing bright sky area.
I like this crop.

If this were mine (which I wish it was), I would experiment with the following:
1) Adding warm light to the bright area of cliff on left.
2) Adding warm light to the bright side of the tree trunks on the left.
3) Perhaps darkening the foreground a tad.
4) Make the rapids in the river brighter. Just the white dots.

Great shot.



Thanks for the kind words Dale! I have already addressed #1 and #3 but perhaps I could nudge them a little more. The lighting was very diffused due to the clouds and the sun wasn't up fully yet so there wasn't making a direct hit on the cliff and trees but I can see how we both kinda expect those areas to be a little more intense.

I can't wait to get this puppy printed.

Dave
---------------------------------------------

lylejk wrote:
Just an excuse to fake an hdr.

https://s19.postimg.org/9d7lemp9f/1535184.jpg


That's pretty intense Lyle! Kinda hurts my eyes though.
This is a massive HDR pano image comprising from 35 images. The # of bracketed shots was way over kill but I'm glad I have them. I blended them using LR's HDR feature and the transitions between exposures came out flawless and really surprised me.

Dave



Oct 13, 2017 at 12:40 PM
lylejk
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Grand Canyon of the East


That's what I do, Dave. If you really want some Eye waving jiggle, click on the link of one of my Flickr's below. lol

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9658689358/sizes/l



Oct 13, 2017 at 01:19 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Grand Canyon of the East


BTW ... are you gonna toss this one over in the Landscape Forum to see how it plays in Peoria?




Oct 13, 2017 at 01:25 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Grand Canyon of the East


RustyBug wrote:
BTW ... are you gonna toss this one over in the Landscape Forum to see how it plays in Peoria?



IDK, I'm a little gun shy posting over there. Most are way out of my league and previous post I've made usually go unnoticed.
Hell, on my last post over there, Fred himself sent me packing and told me to post over here in PC instead.
Kinda takes the wind out of your sails if ya know what I mean.

Edit:
This guy once told me to skip on over to mamby pamby land to find some self confidence.

Dave






The Gunny




Oct 13, 2017 at 01:56 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Grand Canyon of the East


Well ... I'd say it's gettin' close to time to show this one.

We have the benefit of watching our progression rather closely, with the core group being fairly small. I'd readily say you've "upped your game" on this one ... so follow Gunny's advice and grow some nads.

Just tell 'em you borrowed a Sony or Nikon to shoot this with and they'll probably gush over how marvelously it handled the DR and how it has such a lovely painterly look to it.

Something to consider though ... so, if you grabbed some of the finest barbecue in Carolina and took it up to Manhattan's ritziest French restaurant for a review, how well do you think it would be received? But, somebody's gotta learn 'em a thing or two.

Personally, I'm more of a Memphis dry rub or St. Louis / Kansas City.

Point being, the audience's taste has a bearing on the reception. But, that doesn't make it any less. Just because a guy doesn't win the home run derby at the all star game, doesn't mean he isn't a good ball player, or shouldn't be on the ball field. Rookie of the year is no slouch either. Imo, the comp here is very nice ... styling is subjective, as is mood & message. Besides, there are others (i.e. less vocal / lurkers) who may enjoy seeing this location being presented.

When you get it dialed in to where YOU WANT IT ... share it Bro' ... don't keep it hidden away in our little corner of the world. If it gets rave reviews, sweet. If not, it still exposes the world to your beloved stompin' grounds in a way they likely have never seen or been aware of.



As to the "wind outa your sails" ... sometimes it just lets you know that the wind is shifting directions a bit. Don't sweat the "no wind" thing. You'll get the wind at your back, soon enough (even if not as soon as you like).

Let it be YOU ... whether or not it's THEM. If it isn't you, then it's merely an attempt to copy of them. I get that for many (self-included), first we learn to emulate (fancy Manhattan word for copy-cat), then hopefully someday our efforts take us to the place where we learn to create. Imo, this is YOUR creation, and YOU know what it is that YOU are sending for YOUR message ... so SEND IT for the world to see.



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:15 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Grand Canyon of the East


lighthound wrote:
Thanks for the kind words Ben! I kinda thought you might like this one. It's the closest to a western vista as we have here on the east cost.

Below is my edit taking most of the comments into consideration. I softened it and tried for more muted tones but with a little kick attempting to bring out some richness. I suspect I will need to brighten it a bit before sending it out for print.

Of course I screwed up and have made all these changes to a downsized TIFF file rather than my full sized image, but I think
...Show more

I liked the first one,I liked the new one better. This is going to look great on your wall and the non photographers who look at it will blow your ego all out of proportion. We photographers could find flaws in anything..



Oct 13, 2017 at 03:48 PM
pliukait
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Grand Canyon of the East


And beside, some of those 'experts' over there post some pretty mediocre stuff in my eyes, in their eyes it might be good. It's a matter of taste and personal vision.

I'd keep posting over there. There's nothing wrong with what you've done, it's a very fine photo.

GFI (Go For It) and if they don't like it FUGIM!



Oct 13, 2017 at 10:38 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Grand Canyon of the East


pliukait wrote:
And beside, some of those 'experts' over there post some pretty mediocre stuff in my eyes, in their eyes it might be good. It's a matter of taste and personal vision.

I'd keep posting over there. There's nothing wrong with what you've done, it's a very fine photo.

GFI (Go For It) and if they don't like it FUGIM!


I would simply add that the diff between presentation forum vs. critique forum is for "finished works" vs. "unfinished works" or WIP (Work In Progress). Kinda like building a website behind the scenes, then publishing it for the world to see ... presentation is where we go when we want to PRESENT our work to the community at large. How it plays in Peoria has it's place, but Peoria doesn't always have the last say, either.

I think the main thing is to present your FINISHED best, with you head up high knowing you didn't leave anything on the table. Sure, we may continue to learn & grow ... and tomorrow may be on a different level or style than today. But, as long as you are taking YOUR "A" game to the presentation forum ... "game on".



Oct 13, 2017 at 11:07 PM
DaleBerlin
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Grand Canyon of the East


LH, don't be intimidated over there in Landscape. Your work is as good as most. And if you don't get many comments don't let it get you down. Except for the occasional truly outstanding landscape post, many "popular" posts are just driven by friend circles. And that's Ok, this is a social site for photographers, and friends just want to be friendly. As long as names are attached to posts, it is hard to tell if popularity/unpopularity is driven by the name , the image, or both.


Oct 14, 2017 at 02:46 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Grand Canyon of the East


I like the original composition. To my thinking the wall helps with a sense of scale and depth.

I think your work is way better than the average for the landscape forum. Unfortunately many very good images are posted and often get only a few or sometimes no comments. The landscape forum has become a collection of shock and awe images.



Oct 14, 2017 at 03:37 AM
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