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Archive 2017 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter

  
 
GMPhotography
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


I gotta run for several hours but try the raws. Certainly want opinions


Oct 13, 2017 at 11:26 AM
HaruhikoT
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Hi Fred and Guy,

Thank you for sharing your test results as always.
I'm also shocked about the PCX2500 results. We PCX team struggles this time and I don't have good answer about why this happens.

Fred Miranda wrote:
I could be totally wrong about this but my theory is that the CV 28/2 Ultron optical design is not sensitive to a sensor stack thickness just like the CV 15/4.5 III M-mount.
Have you noticed the CV 15 M-mount works great on Leica and Sony? I think the same applies here.


This is unlikely IMO. This lens' schematic shows symmetric design and also from the picture of the lens itself's backside, we can see its exit pupil size similar to front-side.
That means it has steep ray angle towards sensor so it must be sensitive to the cover glass thickness.

Perhaps this CV28 is, at least Fred's copy is optimized for thicker sensor stack by Cosina?
My previous simulation results for ZM35/1.4, CV35/1.7 and this CV28/2 already took such 'optimization for digital' into consideration, but I set optimized sensor stack to 0.8mm (Leica M9).
If cosina considers compromise between Leica's stack (0.8mm~1mm) and Sony's stack (around 2.5mm), it may be optimized for around 1.5mm. In that case, PCX2500 should be too strong and deteriorates IQ.

I still can't believe Cosina did such aggressive optimization for their M-mount lens, but recently majority consumer of CV lens may be E-mount user so perhaps this is possible story.

Anyway, more test results may give us some hints. I'll wait for Guy's test with PCX2000
I have interest how IQ looks at wider aperture or at closer distance.
How about the field curvature? If PCX2000/2500 is just too strong, FC with these PCX may be n-shape (Corner resolves closer subjects than center).

Haruhiko



Oct 13, 2017 at 12:06 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Yes i will certainly test the PCX 2000. I’m encouraged by the 5000 it’s doing something for sure and I said in the beginning it needs stronger. So just need to find the balance. I’m was surprised by Fred’s results.


Oct 13, 2017 at 12:56 PM
Maknof
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Wait, CV Ultron 28mm f2 is a 2008 lens.
I remember some articles about Leica m8 and Epson rd1 (camera was a joint venture with Cosina, it used a Bessa body).
Could be lens were designed with RD1 filter glass in mind (and film), Leica used thin filter to achieve less antialiasing effect for m8 .



Oct 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


I doubt that my lens is designed differently. I have tested 2 copies and both gave excellent corners at f/5.6 and especially f/6.7 towards the very edges without any front-lens.

The only other variable is the PCX 2500 filter. It's possible OptoSigma made a mistake and gave me the wrong strength but it's highly unlikely. I just can't see how a PCX2000 would yield good results at this point...

I retested this and what I see is what I see. The PCX 2500 makes it worse (overcorrects) and the PCX 5000 improves the mid and edge but very slightly.
Focus was done at f/5.6 at center (to avoid focus shift). Same exact results focusing at mid-field.

It's possible that a PCX4000 would make this better but I'm not willing to try it out at this point. I think it could be better for the CV 35/1.7 as well since Kolari is giving better results than the "stock + 5m".
Any candidates?



Oct 13, 2017 at 03:04 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Looking at the PCX 5000 you can see it starting to correct. I agree with Fred it’s a 4000 or 3500. I might bite the bullet but I need to wait. My gear budget is screaming bloody murder . If I do go 4000 I’ll put it in the 28 as that’s more the landscape lens for me . I honestly don’t think I can return the 2000

I really think the 2000/2500 are over correcting as I seen this before

Edited on Oct 13, 2017 at 03:49 PM · View previous versions



Oct 13, 2017 at 03:40 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


The good news here is I bought both lenses used for 1100 total. Can’t beat that with a stick


Oct 13, 2017 at 03:47 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


I need to be smacked upside the head. OMG it has shims, 2 of them in fact. I almost could get to infinity with the PCX 2000. I mean close than I figured what the hell I've done this before just unscrew the rear element. Well the last time i tore down a 28mm F2 Ultron there where no shims. I think we still need these adapters as this was a very minor adjustment.












Oct 13, 2017 at 06:42 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Big Bronco in morning. BTW thats F2 with the PCX 2000. Im not saying shit until I see the Raws.


Oct 13, 2017 at 06:43 PM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Well after exhausting testing and honestly its not worth putting up the PCX 2000 is just too strong as the corners are just not cleaning up. I tested no filter, PCX 5000, PCX 2000.

So let me give you some thoughts

If your going to shoot at F8 than adding the PCX of any strength is really not worth the effort. You could include 6.7 here as well

At F5.6 there is improvement( its there but can get away with it) with the PCX 5000 and any aperture above or faster than 5.6

The PCX 2000 is just too strong and its correcting the other way. So this did not match the simulation. Too use the 2000 or 2500 for that matter than a lens with more field curvature and I'm guessing the Contax G lenses.

So if anyone wants a PCX 2000 its for sale


Overall conclusion between having the CV 35mm 1.7 and CV 28mm. I really like the PCX 5000 on the Ultron 28mm as i don't think this lens has more FC than the CV 35mm. So I will at some point move the PCX 5000 to the Ultron 28mm. Than buy the PCX 4000 and put that on the CV 35 1.7 because with the 5000 its almost there in the corners. I think the CV 35mm could use a little more strength than CV 28mm so a 4000 just maybe perfect.

I really like just that little extra punch on the 28mm with the PCX 5000 plus it gives me a hood and protection to the lens. On my trip to NY this week I may just share the PCX 5000 with both lenses or go naked on the 28mm.

But if your not a extreme pixel peeper and just love a 28mm lens than you can certainly go naked on the CV 28mm and at 5.6 its quite good without a PCX. I like to shoot more wide open sometimes so i think a PCX 5000 would be better and I really could do a 4000 on this lens but Im not buying 2 4000 after Im losing money on this 2000.

So even though this is a fail with the PCX 2000 and 2500 we learned a lot from it . You can use a 4000 or 5000 and take this lens to the max if you want but its also quite good without. This is a keeper no question about it and maybe the best 28mm solution we have because it will smoke the FE 28mm. I also think its better than the 28mm Zf.2 and Ze lenses as well and I like those lenses. Now having said all that on the CV 35mm you really need the PCX 5000 or 4000 on it as the corners are worse than this 28mm

I apologize for the PCX 2000 and 2500 did not work. Fred and I both had high hopes but we both learned something from this as well.



Oct 14, 2017 at 10:52 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


You didn't trust my findings!!!

GMPhotography wrote:
I also think its better than the 28mm Zf.2 and Ze lenses as well and I like those lenses.


I compared my tests and concluded it's not better than the ZF 28/2. The Distagon is much superior at center and mid-field. It has much higher micro-contrast as well. At center and especially at mid-field it's really no contest.

The little CV 28 is surprisingly good at the extreme corners though and is capable of nicer sunstars. I'd say the CV 28/2 (naked) is similar to the ZM 28/2.8 (with PCX) but the latter is still better at center.

I really want an outstanding native 28 for the Sony-E!!!



Oct 14, 2017 at 11:15 AM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


No I had the damn filter I had to try it.


Oct 14, 2017 at 11:21 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


GMPhotography wrote:
No I had the damn filter I had to try it.


I'm putting my PCX 2500 at the buy and sell. Perhaps someone needs it for another lens.



Oct 14, 2017 at 11:23 AM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Me too


Oct 14, 2017 at 11:35 AM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


I ordered a PCX 4000 that I will try on both the 28 and 35 to see what improvements might be had over the 5000. Will update whenever that comes in.


Oct 16, 2017 at 08:40 AM
Maknof
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Thank you for your tests.
I'm very curios about this.

Another question , does Ultron accept 46mm filter with hood.
I'm curios because i can made pcx grinded and put directly in a ring.



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:04 AM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Yes the filter thread is 46 for the 28 and as well as the 35 1.7 lens. I would maybe take a blank 46mm filter to your shop so they can fit it in right there. Great idea as you avoid the setup stuff


Oct 16, 2017 at 10:09 AM
GMPhotography
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Since you are in Italy

OptoSigma Europe S.A.S.
6 Avenue des Andes, 91940 Les Ulis, Essonne, FRANCE
TEL.+33-1-6918-1700 / FAX.+33-1-6010-0929
E-mail [email protected]



Oct 16, 2017 at 10:12 AM
alundeb
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


Is there a consensus on this lens now?

The 28/2 Ultron was mentioned ("What's wrong with the Utron 28 with filter") in another thread regarding 35mm landscape lenses, and I am confused about it.

Short summary:

I had this lens and used it on the A7r, but sold it because it performed like on Philipp Reeve's review, heavy vignetting and corner smearing, and couldn't be sharp across the frame at f/5.6 (Midzone dip).

In this thread, the conclusion seem to be that a front-end filter is questionable.

Now it is suggested as a prime 28 mm landscape lens. Yes, the color correction is good, but for a prime to be attractive as a landscape lens for me, it needs to be able to produce excellent sharpness across the frame at f/5.6. Can this lens do that with a front-end filter?





Nov 26, 2017 at 12:24 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 Lens tests with PCX Front Filter


alundeb wrote:
Is there a consensus on this lens now?

The 28/2 Ultron was mentioned ("What's wrong with the Utron 28 with filter") in another thread regarding 35mm landscape lenses, and I am confused about it.

Short summary:

I had this lens and used it on the A7r, but sold it because it performed like on Philipp Reeve's review, heavy vignetting and corner smearing, and couldn't be sharp across the frame at f/5.6 (Midzone dip).

In this thread, the conclusion seem to be that a front-end filter is questionable.

Now it is suggested as a prime 28 mm landscape lens. Yes, the color correction is good, but
...Show more

@alundeb,
The CV 28/2 Ultron is good-enough on the Sony sensor without the help of any front-filter but it works best with the 5m PCX.
You have to buy an adapter (that's shorter) to allow infinity focus with the front-lens.
I tried the 2.5m and 4m PCX and corners actually deteriorated. (So, 5m is the ideal)

It's a good option for the Sony body but there is a mid-zone dip which's probably a lens characteristic. Center and edges look very nice but honestly it's not an outstanding lens. We really need a Loxia 28!



Nov 28, 2017 at 10:35 PM
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