Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

Girl and her dog
  
 
Danpbphoto
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Girl and her dog


Heh brothers....we agree to disagree. Ron, Allen, Andre...we are "vetted" members here.....let's all chuckle.....all points are valid and respected..
Dan



Oct 18, 2017 at 02:49 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Girl and her dog


I agreed with some of what he said. I will say this to clear up any ambiguity. I find the matching body language interesting. The ponytail and dogs ears also mimic one another.

Ron maybe you should reread Andreas post and see how someone that is trying to learn might take those words. The fact they are not based in anything remotely real but they are stated like it is a fact. I've taught photography on the college level and that is not the way to teach anyone anything . And I have been in real critiques, usually 2 maybe 3 a week for 4 years and that doesn't include the ones where i was the teacher and if someone in one of those critiques would have made an uninformed statement like it would have been pointed ut in a more aggressive way than I pointed it out.

This happens all the time in forum land. I have seen comments telling people to crop out some of the most important supporting elements. Make changes that if listened to would ruin a photograph and it is usually because the comments are more about the ego of the person commenting than to be of any help. I don't consider the comment that we are talking about being even slightly helpful.

"Destructive loss of freedom comes from an overflow of egoism, when ego spills over and expresses itself as conceit."



Oct 18, 2017 at 02:54 PM
Andre Labonte
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Girl and her dog


airfrogusmc wrote:
I agreed with some of what he said. I will say this to clear up any ambiguity. I find the matching body language interesting. The ponytail and dogs ears also mimic one another.

Ron maybe you should reread Andreas post and see how someone that is trying to learn might take those words. The fact they are not based in anything remotely real but they are stated like it is a fact. I've taught photography on the college level and that is not the way to teach anyone anything . And I have been in real critiques, usually 2 maybe
...Show more


***************
Allen, I don't disagree with the general message about being articulate in a critique ... but you are totally misreading me if you think I was trying to be mean or it was about ego. I was honestly trying to be helpful, and given that the OP has been part of the forum for 10 years, I figured he would get what I meant ... he did not. I had a valid critique which I did not articulate well. Lesson learned.

As for the critique, that the dog and woman were looking in the same direction is not enough to make the image compelling. Most people, both armature and professional, would agree with me. You apparently do not, and that is fine. I'm good with agreeing to disagree.

Cheers,
Andre




Oct 18, 2017 at 05:12 PM
Andre Labonte
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Girl and her dog


Danpbphoto wrote:
Heh brothers....we agree to disagree. Ron, Allen, Andre...we are "vetted" members here.....let's all chuckle.....all points are valid and respected..
Dan


Nicely put Dan.



Oct 18, 2017 at 05:12 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Girl and her dog


It certainly seemed that way to me by the tone of the post. I think there are interesting elements in the image. I also think there is more going on than them both looking in the same direction. They have the same body language and that can go to maybe a larger body of work of resemblances of dogs and masters.

I didn't vote for the image as I usually only vote for those that I think are outstanding. I do think that the OP has a lot that he can build on. History is full of great photographs taken from the back and or faces are obscured and I don't considered that exceptions because an exception would mean there was a rule or a set circumstance that is considered norm.


W.Eugene Smith







Oct 18, 2017 at 05:21 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Girl and her dog


Danpbphoto wrote:
Heh brothers....we agree to disagree. Ron, Allen, Andre...we are "vetted" members here.....let's all chuckle.....all points are valid and respected..
Dan


Dan, Allen and I are friends. We've had lunch together. There's no ill will between us.

While we are beating this discussion to death, I'm just really happy that we're actually having a discussion in here.



Oct 18, 2017 at 06:58 PM
Danpbphoto
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Girl and her dog





Oct 18, 2017 at 07:07 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Girl and her dog


What Ron said and sometimes things need to be discussed until they are dead.


Oct 18, 2017 at 07:16 PM
dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Girl and her dog


Danpbphoto wrote:
.....all points are valid and respected..
Dan

To me the,meat of the discussion is not about the point being made, but how to convey that point in a way that is helpful and constructive.

Like Allen, I have taught photography classes and judged both amateur and professional photography competitions.

My photography students were continuing education students who plunked down their hard earned money to improve their knowledge of their avocation. They were there for the joy of it. The last thing I wanted to do was dampen their enthusiasm. I encouraged them to bring in photos for critique. In every critique, I started by telling them what I liked about the photograph. When I offered suggestions that would make the photo better, or pointed out that an aspect of the photo didn't work, I was considerate enough to give an explanation why it didn't work.

The problem wasn't the substance of the point, but the deliveryof it.



Oct 18, 2017 at 08:45 PM
Andre Labonte
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Girl and her dog


dmacmillan wrote:
To me the,meat of the discussion is not about the point being made, but how to convey that point in a way that is helpful and constructive.

Like Allen, I have taught photography classes and judged both amateur and professional photography competitions.

My photography students were continuing education students who plunked down their hard earned money to improve their knowledge of their avocation. They were there for the joy of it. The last thing I wanted to do was dampen their enthusiasm. I encouraged them to bring in photos for critique. In every critique, I started by telling them what I liked
...Show more


I have to agree with you, especially your last point ... on the other hand, this is a free internet forum, not a paid classroom; the OP is not new to photography, but at least a 10-year veteran to it; AND, the reactions to my point and delivery were a bit over-blown and lasted far beyond what was necessary given my rather early explanation.

The horse is now a pulpy pile of goo and is starting to decay!



Oct 18, 2017 at 11:45 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Girl and her dog


friscoron wrote:
It seems that you're thinking the OP is not happy with this image, but I think he's happy with it and that's why he shared it. Also, based on his only response in this hearty discussion, a rebuttal to Andre's critique, again, I think he's happy with it.


I will try to keep in mind that people share pictures here on the forum because they are happy with them and not because they want any kind of comment other than agreement. I do see where my comments were an uninvited attempt to talk about how the photo could be improved. You're right. He didn't ask for that. Thanks for the clarification.



Oct 19, 2017 at 05:30 AM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Girl and her dog


pasblues wrote:
I will try to keep in mind that people share pictures here on the forum because they are happy with them and not because they want any kind of comment other than agreement. I do see where my comments were an uninvited attempt to talk about how the photo could be improved. You're right. He didn't ask for that. Thanks for the clarification.


Everyone is different with that. I'm typically only going to post pics here that I'm pretty happy with, but I'm also wanting to see what the feedback is on it. If a pic doesn't get much love (or critique), then it's really not as compelling as I'd thought it was. That's good for me to know. And you guys are always catching things that I need to fix that I missed.

So yeah, I usually don't offer a critique unless it's asked for. I just think it's disappointing when an OP lays down an image on a forum like this where it's going to be evaluated whether a critique is asked for or not, and then disappears after some negative feedback.



Oct 19, 2017 at 01:30 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Girl and her dog


I think it was the tone and complete lack of real insight of one comment that drove him away. And many are saying things that are not right and telling folks things that are harmful. Many not out of malice but in many cases out of ignorance. They are parroting things they have heard or read from other so called experts. To many spend time with pixels and not enough time with art and photography outside web land as both Maisel and Manos were getting at that in the links I posted. Then a new photographer reads those words and believes them no matter how wrong they might be. The take away for new or young photographers is be careful whose words you listen to. The good thing about the world wide web is everyone has a voice. The bad thing about the world wide web is everyone has voice.


Oct 19, 2017 at 01:43 PM
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Girl and her dog


"I just think it's disappointing when an OP lays down an image on a forum like this where it's going to be evaluated whether a critique is asked for or not, and then disappears after some negative feedback."


I had a photo editor *console* me during an internship when he could see my ashen face after I got a neg sleeve of images critiqued:

"You're playin' with the big boys now."









Oct 19, 2017 at 03:01 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Girl and her dog


pasblues wrote:
"I just think it's disappointing when an OP lays down an image on a forum like this where it's going to be evaluated whether a critique is asked for or not, and then disappears after some negative feedback."

I had a photo editor *console* me during an internship when he could see my ashen face after I got a neg sleeve of images critiqued:

"You're playin' with the big boys now."





To bad a lot of the big boys don't post here. Could you just imagine if Webb, Maisel, Manos or Meyerowitz were posting here and giving critiques? That would definitely open a few eyes in a good way.

If a new photographer gets most or all of his influence and feedback on line the odds of him progressing beyond a certain point are in my opinion slim. Like as been mentioned we should all be looking back for our influence and looking outside the world wide web for influence and critique. As Maisel in one of the pieces I posted earlier stated, spend time with art. Manos talks of looking a lot at the masters.

If you look around the web you see most of the work all looking the same. I think a lot of what happens is many reach a technical level and never progress beyond the obvious as Weston stated or as I like to say nouns. Yep thats a bird but many don't show us what that bird means to them. How do they see it? There is a lot of horizontal growth after a certain level but little vertical growth. Thus everything looks a lot alike. Everyone is following the same silly rules and listening to the same folks and their so called words of wisdom or just being honest comments that in many cases stifles real creativity. And many of those people have no real knowledge and have done NOTHING with their work and can't because their work looks like everyone else work. Competent technically but visually nothing special.

And most have no idea of how to put together bodies of work because many are chasing the one so called good image. Not realizing one good photograph no more makes a great photographer as one good at bat will put a baseball player in the hall of fame. Most all the masters worked in bodies of work, books, exhibits etc. I know that having a look to my professional work gets me work. I know that having a look to my personal work gets me exhibits.

Now the question, how do you grow vertically? I would say listen to both Manos and Maisel. Spend time with work from the greats. Not to copy but to learn what is really good and where the bar has been set . See real prints in galleries and museums.(see Manos comments in #15 taste in the link I posted). Lotsa good stuff out there, lotsa time to learn and the journey is long.



Oct 19, 2017 at 04:46 PM
dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Girl and her dog


I have the first few minutes of leisure in the last few days.

It's because I have been drinking out of a fire hose. Yesterday y wife and I visited the Musee L'Orangerie and the Musee D'Orsay. If you want to grow vertically, look at sculpture, painting,architecture and other arts.

Also get out and live life. Immerse yourself in the world. Meet new friends.



Oct 21, 2017 at 05:00 PM
gregfountain
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Girl and her dog


Congrats on the featured photo win!


Oct 28, 2017 at 03:47 AM
pasblues
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Girl and her dog


gregfountain wrote:
Congrats on the featured photo win!


It was a featured thread win.




Nov 07, 2017 at 10:34 PM
gregfountain
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Girl and her dog


pasblues wrote:
It was a featured thread win.



I ignored the thread and went with the photo



Nov 08, 2017 at 02:17 AM
Almass
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Girl and her dog


airfrogusmc wrote:
.......
Read this piece for Manos not Kim. #15 gets to a lot of what happens in forum land.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2014/09/22/20-lessons-constantine-manos-taught-street-photography/



I am refering here to Manos words as related by Kim. Specifically in paragraph "f"

f) Don’t crop
..........He is from the Henri Cartier-Bresson school of “not cropping”. Even when Costa would print his photos, he would put a black border around his image showing that each print was the “full frame”.


This is where I stopped reading for the simple reason that Henri Cartier-Bresson was cropping like there is no tomorrow and yet claimed he did not crop and of course claimed to have knocked "The Decisive Moment" which both statements are a bit frivolous, and I am being polite here.

Bresson most famous picture is: 'Behind La Gare Saint-Lazare'
With his Crop'







and the 'Decisve Moment' debunked specially that Bresson admitted himself being inspired (copying Martin Munkacsi). Have a look at this other famous picture shot in rapid succession alleged Decisive Moment.







and the Contact Print



So Masters of Photography and world famous photographers are not a clean as Ivory soap.
For the record, very few are.



Nov 08, 2017 at 06:54 AM
1       2      
3
       4       end






FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password