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Girl and her dog
  
 
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Girl and her dog


Congratulations to Bill Hollinger for winning Feature Thread of the Week with 4 votes - View Previous Winners


I was walking back to the car and saw a girl and her dog sitting together on a large rock, and something caught the attention of both of them just long enough to snap this photo. A9, 100-400 at 388mm.







Oct 09, 2017 at 12:37 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Girl and her dog


The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting.


Oct 09, 2017 at 03:28 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Girl and her dog


Andre Labonte wrote:
The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting.


This is the kind of comment I would expect over at Preview, not here. You can discourage young or new photographers with these kinds of comments. Two species equally captivated and focused are interesting to some of us.



Oct 09, 2017 at 11:25 AM
Jim Rickards
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Girl and her dog


Andre Labonte wrote:
The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting.


Agree.



Oct 09, 2017 at 11:32 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Girl and her dog


Well, I reckon that settles the issue, then.


Oct 09, 2017 at 11:39 AM
douter
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Girl and her dog


OK Bill, I'm a sucker for dog-people interaction photos. The photo is interesting as it shows each mimicking the other as they gaze at assumingly, the same distraction. I somewhat agree that the lack of faces in this detracts, but it still tells a story, we just can't see exactly what they are gazing so aptly at and that might make this a little stronger. Perhaps zooming wider would have helped this to better illustrate the story.
Douglas



Oct 09, 2017 at 01:20 PM
Bob Kane
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Girl and her dog


Now if the dog had a phone.....


Oct 09, 2017 at 03:27 PM
friscoron
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Girl and her dog



I think we tend to be pretty honest here at fm people, and I think we share feedback based on how we see the picture, given our own styles. Frankly, before I read anything, when I looked at the picture my first thought was: "I wonder what they look like." Normally, I wouldn't comment on this pic because I don't really understand what was compelling to the OP so I don't feel qualified to comment. But when I saw Andre's response (mirroring my thoughts) and then the OP's response, just thought I'd comment.

It's understood that you can take my comment and the others before, as harsh or whatever. But I don't think it's meant that way, certainly I know mine wasn't meant that way. I think we're all trying to help you understand what we see, how we feel, when we look at this (or any other) picture.

I hope this helps.



Oct 09, 2017 at 06:31 PM
jeraldcook
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Girl and her dog


Andre Labonte wrote:
The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting.


---------------------------------------------

friscoron wrote:
I think we tend to be pretty honest here at fm people, and I think we share feedback based on how we see the picture, given our own styles. Frankly, before I read anything, when I looked at the picture my first thought was: "I wonder what they look like." Normally, I wouldn't comment on this pic because I don't really understand what was compelling to the OP so I don't feel qualified to comment. But when I saw Andre's response (mirroring my thoughts) and then the OP's response, just thought I'd comment.

It's understood that you can take my
...Show more

What friscoron and Andre said. Not meant to be harsh but I don't really "get" the photo or find it all that interesting. Okay, the dog is sorta mimicking the owner but what are they looking at? Something funny? Did something make a loud noise and startle them? I don't know because all I see are the back of their heads.


Edited on Oct 10, 2017 at 08:35 PM · View previous versions



Oct 09, 2017 at 07:16 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Girl and her dog


Bill Hollinger wrote:
This is the kind of comment I would expect over at Preview, not here. You can discourage young or new photographers with these kinds of comments. Two species equally captivated and focused are interesting to some of us.


*****************************

Sorry if honesty bothers you ...



Oct 10, 2017 at 07:50 PM
 

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story_teller
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Girl and her dog


Hi Bill. A few years ago I had the fortune to spend a week with one of the best location lighting photographers in the industry. I ask him to critique my previous day's shots and what an eye opener it was. He quickly flipped through all 50 or so of my final photos and then went back to a single photo and said, "This one is "ok", but really didn't say it with a lot of conviction.

He then told me the way to get better is be my own worst critic and look at my photos from a detached point of view. I told him about a few of what I thought were great photos and he said, "You were there, I wasn't!" In other words, the photos had to stand on their own merit. I had the additional context of being there and could see a lot that wasn't being captured in the photo and assumed everyone saw what I saw.

It was hard to do at first, but it's made me a much better photographer because I look at exactly what the photo is saying, not what I saw when I took it. Review your photos as if someone else took them.

Your mileage may vary....



Oct 11, 2017 at 05:04 PM
rbianco
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Girl and her dog


I have to agree one of the first things we were taught was always try to include the individuals face when applicable. I also think the crop is too tight especially at the bottom. Other than that on OK image.



Oct 11, 2017 at 10:01 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Girl and her dog


Andre Labonte wrote:
The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting.


Really? Not saying that this is image is interesting but there are plenty of photographs that clearly show the ignorance of this statement.

Lee Friedlander












Robert Frank












hidden face also Frank






Roy DeCarava
























Vivian Maier






Ralph Gibson












These are just a few photographers that clearly make interesting photographs that are backs of heads and/or not showing faces. There are so many more great photographers and photographs that show how wrong this statement is.



Oct 12, 2017 at 02:11 PM
rbianco
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Girl and her dog


So if someone has a different opinion than you Lee, they are ignorant or wrong? very nice. Everyone sees things differently especially when it comes to photography.


Oct 12, 2017 at 07:08 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Girl and her dog


My name is not Lee and I said the statement was ignorant and the statement is also wrong.

Read this piece for Manos not Kim. #15 gets to a lot of what happens in forum land.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2014/09/22/20-lessons-constantine-manos-taught-street-photography/



Oct 12, 2017 at 07:42 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Girl and her dog


"The back of people's and animal's heads are never very interesting."
I think that he would, like me, be comfortable with a statement along the lines of "The back of people's and animal's heads are usually not as interesting as being able to see their faces."

I think the absolutism of the statement triggered his reaction. That led to him sharing with us some wonderful classic images captured by some of the greats in the history of photography. This is not about a difference of opinion. This is about a general lack of knowledge of the history of photography. Only that could lead to such a misinformed proclamation.



Oct 12, 2017 at 07:58 PM
friscoron
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Girl and her dog



It wasn't the OP who shared the classic images but rather Allen. Sure, Andre's statement was an absolute and obviously not truly accurate, but I tend to think he was using hyperbole, as is his wont. In these classic images graciously shared by Allen, those images are compelling without seeing the faces, or maybe in part because we don't see their faces. Lots to discuss there because those are compelling images.

Sometimes, when we post here or whatever other forum, we want adoration and accolades. We've created an image we're really proud of. Sometimes that happiness gets in the way of our seeing the weaknesses in the image. Maybe we've achieved something technically that we've never managed to do before, or captured a moment that has eluded us until now. We're so caught up in what we did, we don't realize that other elements in the image make it not quite the award winner we want it to be. At least, that's how my experience has been.

So I don't think Andre was wrong in his comment. He was being honest and making a point, albeit in his own way. I don't know that he needs a history lesson, though I did appreciate the images.

But really, the lesson here is that our favorite images, no matter how much we personally like them, are not always going to be favorably seen by others on a forum. Of course, you can always post it on your personal FB page. Everyone there will like it. :-)




Oct 13, 2017 at 01:34 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Girl and her dog


friscoron wrote:
It wasn't the OP who shared the classic images but rather Allen. Sure, Andre's statement was an absolute and obviously not truly accurate, but I tend to think he was using hyperbole, as is his wont. In these classic images graciously shared by Allen, those images are compelling without seeing the faces, or maybe in part because we don't see their faces. Lots to discuss there because those are compelling images.

Sometimes, when we post here or whatever other forum, we want adoration and accolades. We've created an image we're really proud of. Sometimes that happiness gets in the way of
...Show more


******************

Well said, you understood my intent and methods perfectly ... and point taken ... I can make adjustments for my part in the future.

I should have used the phrase "generally not" instead of word "never". Allen showed a nice set of exceptions to the general rule. The key thing with the exceptions is they all have compelling context. Now if the OP's shot did not have a tree in the foreground, but in its place, had something "seen" in the background to provide context, the image might have been compelling.





Oct 13, 2017 at 02:50 AM
Arka
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Girl and her dog


Andre Labonte wrote:
******************

Well said, you understood my intent and methods perfectly ... and point taken ... I can make adjustments for my part in the future.

I should have used the phrase "generally not" instead of word "never". Allen showed a nice set of exceptions to the general rule. The key thing with the exceptions is they all have compelling context. Now if the OP's shot did not have a tree in the foreground, but in its place, had something "seen" in the background to provide context, the image might have been compelling.



Andre, I'm glad you softened your comment in light of Allen's counterpoint, but I'm afraid I understood your initial reaction to the OP's photo all too well. I share it completely. It's not just the lack of faces that make the photo uncompelling to me... I'm not even sure that seeing their faces could make the picture interesting. To me, it's also the lack of interesting lighting, or any effort to simplify the scene compositionally. It just isn't a very intriguing photo standing on its own.



Oct 13, 2017 at 09:05 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Girl and her dog


My problem is a lot of the so called forum experts that give advice like that statement that I called out that can really hurt new photographers and like Costas Manos was pointing out in his statements on the piece I posted you should be getting your inspiration for the masters instead of on the world wide web and that includes forums. Many of the so called forum experts have all the absolutes and rules that they read on forums and have very little to do with making interesting photographs.

Heres another opinion by another great photographer. A short piece and I have posted this before and great advice on how to be better.



And a bit of humor regarding the so called forum experts.
http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html






Oct 13, 2017 at 12:49 PM
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