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What to charge for a NDA?
  
 
InSanE
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · What to charge for a NDA?


No charge, on nda or raw. Woudldnt want to loose a client over something irrelevant.


Oct 06, 2017 at 07:23 PM
Mark_L
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · What to charge for a NDA?


BigIronCruiser wrote:
It's definitely not backwards from the perspective of the client.

I think it is but we are not going to agree.

It does blow my mind how easily photogs will bend and give stuff of value away for free.



Oct 06, 2017 at 08:34 PM
ZachOly
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · What to charge for a NDA?


InSanE wrote:
No charge, on nda or raw. Woudldnt want to loose a client over something irrelevant.


Okay, I want:

NDA
All the RAWs
Swap my engagement session for extra coverage
I don't need pictures between 5-6:30, so can you stay an extra hour and a half?
All the RAWs the next morning, because it's only a drag and drop, right?
My friend wants to tag along and second shoot.
We don't want to feed you. Make sure you're shooting the entire time. We're paying good money.
Can you edit differently?

See how when you don't set values to things, stuff starts to spiral?



Oct 06, 2017 at 09:10 PM
amonline
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · What to charge for a NDA?


ZachOly wrote:
Okay, I want:

NDA
All the RAWs
Swap my engagement session for extra coverage
I don't need pictures between 5-6:30, so can you stay an extra hour and a half?
All the RAWs the next morning, because it's only a drag and drop, right?
My friend wants to tag along and second shoot.
We don't want to feed you. Make sure you're shooting the entire time. We're paying good money.
Can you edit differently?

See how when you don't set values to things, stuff starts to spiral?


No problem. I charge $500 an hour for "wait around" time, and $1,000 for expedited delivery. As a teacher, I charge $300 and hour, with a 8 hour minimum. You booked 12 hours, so that another $2,400 for the student fee. That'll be an extra $4,150 on top of your package. I'm not worried about the snack food. Will that be cash, check, or charge?



Oct 06, 2017 at 09:40 PM
InSanE
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · What to charge for a NDA?


ZachOly wrote:
See how when you don't set values to things, stuff starts to spiral?


And when will that happen in real life?



Oct 06, 2017 at 10:07 PM
J Knight
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · What to charge for a NDA?


I would not dream of charging. There are so many reasons people want privacy and so many reasons why they would not want to discuss why they need it.

Would you want to find you had charged a law officer who was vulnerable, or a bride who had death threats from a previous partner, or a bride or groom who had kids vulnerable to kidnapping or abuse in some form?

A choice between decency and plain greed I think.



Oct 07, 2017 at 12:28 AM
glort
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · What to charge for a NDA?


What an incredible scenario some people propose.....

You demand to use my function as part of your advertising and put it on your blog or you will penalise me with higher charges.

I tell you to go and get stuffed.
I'm not paying you to be an advertising tool for your business. You want to benefit your position from something I'm paying you to do and footing the bill for, then far as I can see YOU owe ME!

You don't get the job, I go else where to someone who does not think I'm " Privacy Obsessed" and will respect my wishes.

You still don't get to use my event to promote yourself and you don't get the money I would have paid you to cover it.
You also loose any chance of personal referrals and recommendation not to mention the potential of more business from the people whom will be there some of whom will inevitably be in the market for a shooter in the foreseeable future and are keeping their eyes out.

If that's not an idiotic, self sabotaging position for a business to take, I don't know what is.
How in the hell did shooters become such a bunch of self serving, self important ego maniacs?

There is no need to use every persons pics to promote yourself and if there is, then you must be a far more average shooter than even I am. Amazes me people are so terrified and crap on about one bad review ruining their business then have the gall to treat their clients like this.
It's Bizarre and shows that a lot of people talk the talk about caring for their clients and customer service but in reality it's all about them and just egotistical masturbation.

We may think our shit don't stink but like manure, in this day and age we are just another commodity in an over crowded market and YES, there are many other shooters that do work as wonderful and perfect as you do and, there are PLENTY of them. You may delude yourself that no one can do work as wonderful as you but you are wrong.
VERY wrong.

A bit of a reality check and humility would no doubt be a great benefit to some people and their businesses.





Oct 07, 2017 at 01:03 AM
glort
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · What to charge for a NDA?


J Knight wrote:
Would you want to find you had charged a law officer who was vulnerable, or a bride who had death threats from a previous partner, or a bride or groom who had kids vulnerable to kidnapping or abuse in some form?

A choice between decency and plain greed I think.


Decency, greed, stupidity.... all factors I'd say.

I don't and never have been in any of those situations or have any need to hide my life.
I just don't have any reason or benefit to make a big deal of it either.
It's simply my choice the same as I don't feel the need to post on social media about everywhere I go or every time I take a dump like some seem obsessed with. It's just not me.

When I bought my new house a few months back and I declined the agents offer of a photo putting a sold sticker on the sign, It wasn't because I was under threat or in danger or was hiding from anything or anyone. It's just not my wishes to make a public spectacle of myself.
Agent didn't try to charge me more for the house because he couldn't put us on his site to get new clients.
I didn't post things on FB about getting a new house either.

There are plenty out there very different that would not have a problem and in fact love to be featured on a shooters website so why use the people that are happy to do that and respect the ones that don't?

Complaining about how many people didn't want their pics used like it's a detriment to the business is laughable. If your advertising and promo strategies are that crap you think you need to use every shoot you do, then one needs to realise the real problem is their ignorance in business and marketing and educate themselves.

If you can't respect your clients wishes right from the very start, then trying to say you care about them and what you do for them really is not at all believable if you have proven otherwise from the outset of the relationship.



I have strong suspicions that this "charge extra if we can't use your pics" idea would contravene trade practices acts at least in some parts of the world if extra was charged for that stated reason.




Oct 07, 2017 at 01:32 AM
BKphotography
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · What to charge for a NDA?


As far as trolls go on here, you're far from the best.

In saying that, it seems like you're the only one kicking about on here these days.

So you've always got that.




Oct 07, 2017 at 09:03 AM
ZachOly
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · What to charge for a NDA?


If you're not okay with charging for an NDA, are you okay with offering an "advertising discount"?


Oct 07, 2017 at 10:50 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Mark_L
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · What to charge for a NDA?


I'd love to see how much social media these people have. I bet it is quite a bit more than zero.

Glort, do you also hand copyright over? An advertising discount is priced in ffs. Good luck in the business If you have zero work examples to show.



Oct 07, 2017 at 12:25 PM
glort
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · What to charge for a NDA?


Mark_L wrote

Glort, do you also hand copyright over?


Here in Oz, the Clients own copyright for photos taken for Domestic purposes. IE, weddings, portraits etc. The photographer never owns copyright unless it is signed over to them.

Good luck in the business If you have zero work examples to show.

Yep, if you can't make a valid point, try to get away with making a stupid one.

Why would I have zero examples of work to show?
If you have the ability to both read and the power of comprehension, you will see I said that shooters should be happy to use the pics of those that are Ok with them blogging them and respect the wishes of those that don't.

I'm not sure if this basic concept is too advanced for you to understand or you are just trying to stick your head up your nether regions to make a rebuttal of the opposing position because you have no valid point to further an agenda you want to push.

It's real freaking easy for anyone with a shred of consideration for their clients to understand.
If they are happy for you to use their pics, then feel free.
If they don't want you to, then don't.

Unless you are doing something really wrong, then you will always have plenty of pics to show.
I think the condescending garbage of having zero pics to show is as laughable as your strawman argument that this was ever any sort of a possibility.

Pushing the " I have to blog your assignment " position leaves the shooter with the very real possibility of a Loose/ loose/loose.
No pics to blog because the client wasn't going to pay extra for you to not use them, no one is going to see the images and ask " Who took your pics, I'd love to have them do my wedding" and You lost the income from the job that you had put in all the work attracting in the first place.

Could there be a more self destructive policy for a shooter to have?.
Kinda makes the whole exercise pointless if you are going to blow people away because of the very method you force on others to attract other clients.

Instead of creating such reliance on bringing in new work through Blogs, what about putting a few marketing strategies into the work you already have been booked for?

I wonder how many of the "Have to blog every job" crowd actually have any sort of referral generation in place with existing clients?
I'll bet none of them even ask there couples the most basic question like " do you know anyone else getting married soon that you could recommend us to?"
Pretty sure not because anyone ignorant enough to charge people more for not blogging their event would be far too stupid to know how to encourage leads from the jobs they already have so they had a working strategy to get new leads without having to rely solely on the blog in the first place.




Oct 07, 2017 at 03:19 PM
ZachOly
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · What to charge for a NDA?


^ This might be a difficult concept for you, but blogging, Facebook and Instagram can be a part of a good referral strategy.

Most of my referrals come from couples who attended a wedding I shot, saw the images on my blog/FB/Insta, liked them, and contacted me. My ego isn't big enough to just assume that because I shot a couple's wedding that they talk about me none stop to all their friends.



Oct 07, 2017 at 04:45 PM
amonline
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · What to charge for a NDA?


Some of you guys act like losing the ability to share a wedding or two here or there is the end of your business. That's just sad.

If you need images for promotion that bad, then you're not working enough, or not doing your best at every wedding you shoot. As a business owner, you should not have to rely on every wedding to pad your portfolio.

Sure, I get the loss of referrals for that wedding; but again, if you're not getting your site to potential attendees, that's poor business skills once again. It's as simple as saying, "I'm not sure if the bride will be sharing these images online, but be sure to check out some of my other weddings."



Oct 07, 2017 at 06:16 PM
glort
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · What to charge for a NDA?


ZachOly wrote:
^ This might be a difficult concept for you, but blogging, Facebook and Instagram can be a part of a good referral strategy.


Mate, we have been down this road before. You have proven over and over again that you have next to zero knowledge of marketing, promotion and advertising and continue to confirm that with every post you make on the subject.

My motivation for my rants and drivel is not to show I'm smarter than others, its to try and make things easier for people by pointing out things where I KNOW they are going wrong.
I HAVE studied this stuff, I do know what I'm talking about and even if I don't and am wrong, the underlying thing I push of people educating themselves in marketing, advertising and sales is still more than valid.

Lets face it mate, You have no clue about this subject and have never taken the time to learn beans about it. Arguing with me and trying to prove flawed points does no one any good and your time especially could be so much better spent educating yourself on this stuff if only to prove me wrong and shove it up my backside with being able to argue valid points rather than complete and utter nonsense.
Sorry, but that is exactly what you do now every time we get into this.

I'm not arguing stuff I came up with and pulled out my arse, I'm talking proven and verified rules, strategies and methods that are the way things work in this field and millions of business use and thousands of schools teach. It's not shit I pulled out the air or dreamed up. I'm not smart enough for that, I'm just copying and reiterating what the smart people worked out and the rest of us like me copied and proved correct.

I cannot implore you any more than I have to actually take some time to learn this stuff rather than just keep prattling off the way you see things which is just so far off base you have no idea.
If nothing else, do it to prove you are right and I am wrong. The reason you educate yourself is not important, the benefit will be the same whatever motivates you learn about it.

Now to address your retort.....

Yeah, I don't think many people would doubt me in saying I'm aware than SM can be a PART of a good marketing strategy. I also know that anyone that does know basic marketing would not be aware of the Parthenon principal. That alone undermines your position on what a good referral strategy is.

A GREAT and professional referral strategy would be to make the most of the relative captive audience you have and have systems in place that does not rely on them going to and finding your blog, rather you take steps to reach them in the first place. There are many ways to do it, I'm not going to try and spell them out here because you'll dismiss them anyway thinking your one track approach is the only possible method.

The idea is instead of relying on them to come to you, a properly effective strategy reaches out to the clients not hopes they stumble across you.

Most of my referrals come from couples who attended a wedding I shot, saw the images on my blog/FB/Insta, liked them, and contacted me.

Yeah, I do not dispute that one bit.
What you are saying is the same thing people who didn't know any better were saying 30 years ago... " I get all my business from Yellow pages"
Yes, of course you do. It's the only place you advertise so logically you are not going to get business from any other form of advertising if you don't do any. That's pretty logical.

It's pretty much the problem here as well and why you have the attitude you do to this.
There are just so much more effective ways of doing it in taking control not hoping you get lucky and they find you.
Again we have the irony in your dispute with what I say in you tell me the majority of the leads you get (And they are not referrals as you believe) come from weddings you do when I pointed out loosing a job thought the insistence on extra charges from non blogging also lost you the potential clients at that wedding.

Thank you once again for proving my point with your own words.

My ego isn't big enough to just assume that because I shot a couple's wedding that they talk about me none stop to all their friends.

But you do nothing to reach yourself. You hope they find your blog and Sm.
Take that away and I'll bet thee is very little to nothing else you do to pull in customers from the work you shoot.
If you did, you'd realise that blogging and publicising those jobs on the web should also only be a PART of your lead generation program, not the thing you depend on entirely.

It's not me arguing my POV, it's what any marketing book/ school/ expert will tell you.




Oct 08, 2017 at 07:58 AM
glort
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · What to charge for a NDA?


amonline wrote:
Some of you guys act like losing the ability to share a wedding or two here or there is the end of your business. That's just sad.


It really is.
Some are just so blind to what it costs them and those they provide for in so many ways.
I don't argue stuff because its something I dreamed up and want my opinion to be right, it's all stuff that is in endless books and used in business every single day. Its the same stuff that everything from successful small businesses to corporations use.

I don't know why some people are just so goddam stubborn in learning something that would be the most beneficial and valuable skill they could have not just in business, but in life.




Oct 08, 2017 at 08:06 AM
BKphotography
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · What to charge for a NDA?


amonline wrote:
Some of you guys act like losing the ability to share a wedding or two here or there is the end of your business. That's just sad.


Yes, but if that trend continues things would get a tiny wee bit difficult.

My sole advertising is me posting my work on the world wide web.

It's a great shop window you know.



Oct 08, 2017 at 09:16 AM
InSanE
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · What to charge for a NDA?


NEW TOPIC
Should I charge per click? Its not the same to take 1000 or 3000 frames per wedding, shutters need replacing, culing takes time and if they want safety frames of key moments MAKE THEM PAY!
FFS you cant charge for every shit

PS
Shouldnt you charge extra for bloging their images? Its work after all..

So ONTOPIC
If they want NDA charge extra, if you post charge extra.
If they want RAW charge extra, and shure as fuck charge extra if they want you to edit.



Oct 08, 2017 at 10:03 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · What to charge for a NDA?



We charge 400Ä "extra"

We do not say, that they need to pay "more" for privacy as that is illegal in Germany. Instead we offer two different packages...

We sell that about 3 times a year


heiko

DannyBostwick wrote:
Man, I thought it was industry standard to charge for an NDA. If I get something amazing that would go in my portfolio but cannot use it, that's a detriment to me and the future of my business. At least that was my reasoning. Anyway, I told her 300 bucks and she didn't blink an eye. Anywho, thanks guys. I'll keep all this in mind for next time.




Oct 08, 2017 at 12:25 PM
amonline
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · What to charge for a NDA?


BKphotography wrote:
Yes, but if that trend continues things would get a tiny wee bit difficult.


Thatís not gonna happen. People are too vain.



Oct 08, 2017 at 01:01 PM
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