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Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me
  
 
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


I've seen a few folks constantly selling camera equipment, much of it brand new in the box. Others selling barely used cameras very frequently. Is this a situation where they've managed to get good deals and they're just flipping them? Or are there people that literally own dozens of new cameras and just turn them a couple of times per week?
I don't want to mention anyone specifically but if you watch the buy/sell forum, I'm sure you've seen it too.
Like I said... My curiosity is killing me! What's going on?



Sep 30, 2017 at 04:09 AM
trogdon
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


I think people just buy things and don't like them, or it is cheaper than renting. I personally buy and resell camera gear a lot (though mostly used), I think I'll like something but my desires are always changing


Sep 30, 2017 at 04:34 AM
chiron
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Jonathan Brady wrote:
I've seen a few folks constantly selling camera equipment, much of it brand new in the box. Others selling barely used cameras very frequently. Is this a situation where they've managed to get good deals and they're just flipping them? Or are there people that literally own dozens of new cameras and just turn them a couple of times per week?
I don't want to mention anyone specifically but if you watch the buy/sell forum, I'm sure you've seen it too.
Like I said... My curiosity is killing me! What's going on?


Delicately put question, Jonathan. I've noticed this also. I don't think that the regular sellers of multiple different new cameras and new lenses are selling equipment purchased for their own use. I think there is some weird pipeline that goes from some odd, off-the-books source like authorized dealers selling "privately" or imports to off-the-grid selling on various forums. The sellers who are regularly selling new stuff will in my experience not provide a receipt from a store for what they are selling--so it is very hard to know where it comes from, and I assume that warranty service would be impossible. Also, the prices these sellers offer are usually very close to what you would pay at B&H or Amazon or Adorama or K&M--the "discount" is usually less than 10% and the equipment is sold without return privileges. People who are selling equipment they acquired for their own use from a dealer and then decided not to keep usually have a store receipt they can share.



Sep 30, 2017 at 10:56 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


There could be several explanations:

1. There are a few members on B/S Forum who are in effect acting as intermediaries between dealers and purchasers. They offer to sell equipment at less than retail, and provide a receipt in your name. Obviously, a private seller couldn't do that.

2. Some may accrue rewards or gift cards, and want to "cash out" of them, so they might buy something and sell it at a discount to get cash in hand.

3. Some may be resellers, so they frequent this forum as well as other forums and auctions sites to find deals to flip for profit.

4. Some may be employees of certain manufacturers and use their employee discount to purchase equipment that they later flip for profit.

These are just a few that I personally have come across. There could certainly be other explanations, including those that might fall under the "shady" category .



Sep 30, 2017 at 12:05 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


mitesh wrote:
There could be several explanations:

1. There are a few members on B/S Forum who are in effect acting as intermediaries between dealers and purchasers. They offer to sell equipment at less than retail, and provide a receipt in your name. Obviously, a private seller couldn't do that.

2. Some may accrue rewards or gift cards, and want to "cash out" of them, so they might buy something and sell it at a discount to get cash in hand.

3. Some may be resellers, so they frequent this forum as well as other forums and auctions sites to find deals to
...Show more


Interesting mitesh, I never paid any attention to this.

K-H.



Sep 30, 2017 at 12:35 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


mitesh wrote:
There could be several explanations:

1. There are a few members on B/S Forum who are in effect acting as intermediaries between dealers and purchasers. They offer to sell equipment at less than retail, and provide a receipt in your name. Obviously, a private seller couldn't do that.

2. Some may accrue rewards or gift cards, and want to "cash out" of them, so they might buy something and sell it at a discount to get cash in hand.

3. Some may be resellers, so they frequent this forum as well as other forums and auctions sites to find deals to
...Show more

I think there is at least one more category of seller that I have seen. Those who travel frequently or have another access to a place in the world where the gear can be purchased at a noticeably cheaper price who then buy the gear there and sell it someplace else making a bit of profit, but often selling it for less than people can get it where they live. I don't find that shady and I think it can end up in a "win" for everyone. The buyer gets the lens at a reduced price (but probably without a warranty), the seller gets a small profit, and even the manufacturer gets more product sold with the seller paying the cost of transportation of the product.



Sep 30, 2017 at 01:23 PM
chiron
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


mitesh wrote:
There could be several explanations:

1. There are a few members on B/S Forum who are in effect acting as intermediaries between dealers and purchasers. They offer to sell equipment at less than retail, and provide a receipt in your name. Obviously, a private seller couldn't do that.

2. Some may accrue rewards or gift cards, and want to "cash out" of them, so they might buy something and sell it at a discount to get cash in hand.

3. Some may be resellers, so they frequent this forum as well as other forums and auctions sites to find deals to
...Show more

On the several occasions when I have inquired about any of these new cameras or lenses on the buy-sell forum, there is no receipt provided by the seller or from a store and there is no warranty or return period. They are sold just like any other used equipment on the forum.(This is very different from the way that Greentoe, for example, operates, with both receipts from authorized dealers, 30 day returns, and full Sony or Zeiss warranties.)

One possible source other than dealers could be Sony employees who buy the cameras and lenses for discounts then place them with these forum sellers. The volume doesn't seem to be very high.

Also, I don't see these kinds of sales on ebay. Ebay ultimately is a less anonymous way of selling than on the buy-sell forum, and so if these sales are in some way non-legit, then ebay would not be a good way to sell them.



Sep 30, 2017 at 01:28 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


some have very few to no posts outside of buy and sell forum. they are still supporting the site which is great.
Selling on ebay, does not make as much sense b/c of the fees.
I think most have a way of getting their equipment at a discount. whether its employee discount or special coupons/deals/cashbacks, I dont know.



Sep 30, 2017 at 01:39 PM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


My best guesses were:
For new, they had a close contact at a major company who sold them stuff at a discount that they flipped, and...
For used, they had a close contact at a major company who sold them returns at a discount that they flipped...

I hadn't considered the other options some have mentioned, so thanks to y'all!



Sep 30, 2017 at 02:02 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Employees of retail chains that offer there employees discounts like 15 percent off for instance. My sons best friend works at Best Buy and I think he gets a 15 percent discount. He has not tapped that himself but usually a lot we see is that type of scenerio from real retail chains. Used to be when Sony sold retail we see a lot of that


Sep 30, 2017 at 02:16 PM
 

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chiron
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think there is at least one more category of seller that I have seen. Those who travel frequently or have another access to a place in the world where the gear can be purchased at a noticeably cheaper price who then buy the gear there and sell it someplace else making a bit of profit, but often selling it for less than people can get it where they live. I don't find that shady and I think it can end up in a "win" for everyone. The buyer gets the lens at a reduced price (but probably without
...Show more

I don't think this is it. None of these sellers has ever been willing to tell me where the equipment they are selling comes from. If the seller had bought it overseas and brought it here to sell, there would be no reason for them not to say that. I do think that somewhere in the supply chain, something is likely to be "off" with these sales.

Perhaps this thread will let someone who does sell the new equipment in the forum give a legit explanation, if one exists.



Sep 30, 2017 at 02:17 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


chiron wrote:
I don't think this is it. None of these sellers has ever been willing to tell me where the equipment they are selling comes from. If the seller had bought it overseas and brought it here to sell, there would be no reason for them not to say that. I do think that somewhere in the supply chain, something is likely to be "off" with these sales.

Perhaps this thread will let someone who does sell the new equipment in the forum give a legit explanation, if one exists.


You may not have run into them, but I have. There was one seller who I even bought a lens or two from in person who I knew went regularly to Japan and had a couple used shops he would frequent and buy a few lenses at great deals and bring them back to Canada and sell them in North America. When I bought a lens from him I saw the bag he brought home and the receipt both of which clearly had Japanese on them (although I couldn't read it, so I can't say for sure what it said). This situation seemed to me like a win for everybody. I got a lens at a lower price than I could normally get in North America, he no doubt made a bit of profit and probably paid for part of his trip, and the seller got access to a market they would not normally have access to.



Sep 30, 2017 at 02:26 PM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


chiron wrote:
I don't think this is it. None of these sellers has ever been willing to tell me where the equipment they are selling comes from. If the seller had bought it overseas and brought it here to sell, there would be no reason for them not to say that. I do think that somewhere in the supply chain, something is likely to be "off" with these sales.

Perhaps this thread will let someone who does sell the new equipment in the forum give a legit explanation, if one exists.


I think this is the majority of it. And I doubt we'll get an explanation as they pretty much stick to the buy/sell forum.



Sep 30, 2017 at 02:48 PM
chiron
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Steve Spencer wrote:
You may not have run into them, but I have. There was one seller who I even bought a lens or two from in person who I knew went regularly to Japan and had a couple used shops he would frequent and buy a few lenses at great deals and bring them back to Canada and sell them in North America. When I bought a lens from him I saw the bag he brought home and the receipt both of which clearly had Japanese on them (although I couldn't read it, so I can't say for sure what it
...Show more

Are you talking about sellers of used lenses and stuff? The sellers that the OP was discussing were selling new in the box unused stuff, and those are the sellers and sales I am referencing.



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:06 PM
SoundHound
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


There was a time, in the '70s, when Nikon gear in the US was very expensive compared to other parts of the world. I had traveled to Kenya to work on a Documentary Commercial and had US cash.

This was also the time that the new African government of Kenya was expelling their East Indian merchant middle class. These merchants had no way to obtain hard currency (the Kenyan currency was almost worthless outside of Kenya) before their exit. Therefore, there was an intense currency black market,

I bought a lot of Nikon equipment in a Kenyan store (authorized dealer). The nominal prices were about 1/3 less than US prices because the US importer keep it that way with "Fair Traded" prices. With the black market value of my US Dollars I got another massive discount. So I got new, but not US Warranted, Nikon Camera, Motor drive and lenses for 37% of US new price. The merchant who sold it was delighted to have the hard cash because he could not export the camera gear..

Today Nikon prices in the US are some of the lowest in the world. US Customs does not protect cross border trademarks since they have better things to do. So while worldwide prices seem level or higher elsewhere possibly some of these transactions could be to raise hard currency?


I mostly sell on the FM Forum forum slightly used cameras bought new at authorized dealers.



Oct 01, 2017 at 03:00 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


chiron wrote:
Are you talking about sellers of used lenses and stuff? The sellers that the OP was discussing were selling new in the box unused stuff, and those are the sellers and sales I am referencing.


The OP was talking about people who sell frequently as far as I can tell. Some sell mostly new stuff, but some sell fairly new stuff, and some sell a mix of all kinds of stuff. He seemed to be gently asking are they buying and selling all the time because they switch out equipment all the time or are they buying and selling all the time as a way to make money, and if it is the latter how does that work. I was trying to describe one way that it may work for some sellers that I think can be a positive for all parties involved (like the example Soundhound gave above), but I am not saying how often that happens or that it isn't shady some of the time (or even a lot of the time). I was just describing a case where I thought it was a good thing that someone sold fairly frequently.



Oct 01, 2017 at 03:32 PM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Another BNIB A9 was just posted by someone who has sold 2 other BNIB A9 recently. It's pretty clear that this person is not using the buy / sell forum in its intended manner. Why isn't anything being done about sellers like this?


Oct 09, 2017 at 03:30 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Not going to speak for Fred but owning a photo forum myself I would not do anything myself either as a administrator if the seller is getting positive feedback and no direct complaints from the buyer themselves and treating people fairly than I would not do anything. As I said before some of these folks work for retail shops get employee discounts and sell for profit. I sell my soul everyday as a Pro shooter there is no difference. We all have t make a living or try to at least.


Oct 09, 2017 at 03:35 PM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


Even if it's a direct violation of the rules of the Forum?


Oct 09, 2017 at 04:27 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Not sure where to ask, curiosity is killing me


I donít not know the rules here but thatís Fredís call. On my forum if your are retailer we ask them to identify themselves in their signature.

Why is this bugging you as some folks actually enjoy the discount they can get. Now if your having problems thatís a different matter. Letís say they work at Best Buy my sons friend dies actually . He gets a discount on product and thatís a Best Buy policy so if that said employee wants to use his discount and resell something thatís a Best Buy issue not a forum issue. Unless there is a specific rule here in place. Even if their is thatís a administrative call and itís not your business to be honest. As a admin myself on GetDpi I make those calls along with other admins. Honestly we own the place we can do whatever we want. This is Fredís place he can do whatever he feels comfortable with. Honestly itís not up to you. Fred writes the rules on his site and he can make changes any time he wants. Iím not speaking for Fred directly but I understand his options as a owner of the site.



Oct 09, 2017 at 04:43 PM
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