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New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses
  
 
chez
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, but I think that means that these lenses will not be small. SAR has pictures of the supposed 14 and 135 and they are anything but small. The 24. 35, and 85 might be smaller, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


I guess once they get released we'll compare them against the GM lenses...which are also not small by any measure. If Sigma is delivering fast lenses ( 135 1.8 and 14 1.8 ) then I don't think they would be small, don't know if anyone would think they would be small at those apertures.



Sep 29, 2017 at 04:41 PM
chez
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


GMPhotography wrote:
My issue with Sigma is they have a clinical look to them even though they are very sharp they just donít render very well. IMHO


I thought you loved the rendering of the 135 1.8?



Sep 29, 2017 at 04:47 PM
GMPhotography
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses



Should have left that one out . Was thinking more of 35,50

chez wrote:
I thought you loved the rendering of the 135 1.8?




Sep 30, 2017 at 02:57 AM
charles.K
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


GMPhotography wrote:
My issue with Sigma is they have a clinical look to them even though they are very sharp they just donít render very well. IMHO


Great news that Sigma is embracing the FE mount. 12 months ago I would have agreed about the Art rendering, but having the 20, 24, 35 and 50 Art lenses alongside my Nikon lenses they are superb. Sometimes for studio portraits you need a sharpness and the 50 Art is probably one of the best out there and surprisingly the OOF is very nice. For landscapes the 50 Art is amazing similar in many ways to the Loxia 50.

On the A7rII/A9 with the AF I am sure there will be no issues as it has plagued many DSLR's. With the latest iteration of DSLR's the speed and accuracy of the AF is on par with native lenses.

Great to have choices


Edited on Sep 30, 2017 at 03:58 AM · View previous versions



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:13 AM
philip_pj
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


They are basically intending to reproduce ART level lenses in FE versions. SAR seems very sure the 35mm will be an f1.4 lens, for which 600 grams is the accepted weight. It's all very good news for us. Another key player in the game, the other great lens maker of our times, along with Zeiss and CV.

The acid is on them all now - make lenses to the template set initially by (i) Sony (FE 35/2.8, FE 55/1.8) before they lost their way and woke up one day believing they were Canon; and (ii) Zeiss in all their lenses for FE. The competition will be great for Sony users. If Leica can do it, so can these guys. In fact, Zeiss's 85mm and 135mm are stronger lenses than the equivalent (though older design) Leicas. Hopefully, Sigma do design in more character, Guy, but most people won't even notice.

If the Sigmas are large, they will compete for the heavyweight niche - Sony GM and legacy Canon L holdovers, and will still undercut them in price.



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:42 AM
Chris_88
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Honestly, I'm not holding my breath, at least at this point. Sigma make great lenses at reasonable prices, but the size is usually an issue for me. With the new 500 4 Sport they have finally delivered an FF lens that is reasonably close in size/weight to Canikon's 500 4 competition.

That being said, if those five e-mount lenses are fast (read: f1.4) I seriously doubt that Sigma will be able to shrink them considerably, while maintaining the reasonable price level and high performance the Art series has been known for.

Then again, a big fat Sigma Art 35 1.4 may not be a bad thing, as it may teach some people that a reasonably well corrected 35 1.4 AF lens capable of keeping up with modern day sensors is never going to be considerably smaller than the frequently criticized "monster" Sony's 35 1.4.



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:44 AM
stevesanacore
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


What I want for my Sony kit are small f2.8-4 lenses. Ok a 35 should be an f2 but a 14mm should be a compact f4. Quality, size and price are two very important features for a third party lens for Sony FE. Sony already has great choices, (other than 35mm), and Zeiss has lots of other great options - other than 35mm. If they make those same huge lenses in FE mount, I don't see the advantage over a Sony or Zeiss option. I guess their main competition is the Basis line from Zeiss. It will be nice to have another quality brand in FE mount! Just hope they keep them small.


Sep 30, 2017 at 03:49 AM
DavidBM
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's not going to happen if Sigma learned from Samyang's gaffe.

I don't believe Sigma will release a 14/1.8 lens for the Sony mirrorless BUT this focal length would greatly benefit from the shorter flange distance and therefore it's not impossible to see a small Art version. (look how small the Laowa's 15/2 FE is)

However, beyond 35mm, Sigma won't be able to produce small 'and' high IQ fast lenses.


Interviews with the Sigma CEO made it pretty clear they were designing short flange distance lenses from scratch.
I think it's no coincidence that they are timed for release in the same year as we can expect short flange mirrorless from Nikon (and mirrorless from Canon, but I'm not sure if that'll be mirrorless EF).



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:56 AM
philip_pj
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Sigma 35/1.4 ART - 13/11 - 67mm filters - 665g - 77mm x 94mm
Sony FE 35/1.4 - 12/8 - 72mm filters - 630g - 79mm x 112mm
Contax CY 35/1.4 - 9/8 - 67mm filters - 600g - 70mm x 76mm

All of them can reduce lens size/weight with finer tolerances, fewer elements and better glass, for our very different market. Having said that, very good wide open f2 lenses (again, Leica) would be most welcome.



Sep 30, 2017 at 03:59 AM
philip_pj
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Will Zeiss revise and port the Batis and Loxia to Nikon MILC?


Sep 30, 2017 at 04:01 AM
 

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bjornthun
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Chris_88 wrote:
Honestly, I'm not holding my breath, at least at this point. Sigma make great lenses at reasonable prices, but the size is usually an issue for me. With the new 500 4 Sport they have finally delivered an FF lens that is reasonably close in size/weight to Canikon's 500 4 competition.

That being said, if those five e-mount lenses are fast (read: f1.4) I seriously doubt that Sigma will be able to shrink them considerably, while maintaining the reasonable price level and high performance the Art series has been known for.

Then again, a big fat Sigma Art 35 1.4
...Show more

The Sony 12-24/4 G is about half the weight of the Canon 11-24/4, and the Zeiss Loxia is also about half the weight of the Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 21/2.8. So, I think we will have to wait and see what weight and size reductions Sigma can manage to achieve while maintaining quality and performance.



Sep 30, 2017 at 08:50 AM
bjornthun
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


philip_pj wrote:
Will Zeiss revise and port the Batis and Loxia to Nikon MILC?


They will have to be able to license the specifications for that mount from Nikon, and we don't know if Nikon will let them do that. In other words we don't know, if Nikon will keep their mount proprietary or not. Zeiss doesn't do reverse engineering.



Sep 30, 2017 at 08:52 AM
Arka
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Steve Spencer wrote:
This is mostly a dodge on the part of the Sigma CEO in my view. Sony has designed small, high IQ lenses, and the Zeiss Loxia are small high IQ lenses, and the Zeiss Batis are fairly small high IQ lenses. Also, the Sony FE mount is 46mm, whereas the Nikon F mount is 44mm. Yes, the flange distance is shorter for Sony E mount and combined that probably places some constraints on designs, but it isn't that narrow of a mount and Sony and Zeiss have been able to do it.


Maybe. I'd certainly agree that small size hasn't been a priority for Sigma's latest lenses (though quality of optics certainly has). However, it doesn't seem fair to compare the latest Art lenses, which are all very fast, offer tremendous image quality and full autofocus capability, to the Sony or Zeiss offerings available for the Sony cameras. The only Sony lenses that are small are the ones that are f/1.8 or slower. Once you get into their f/1.4 G-master primes, the lenses are huge, and comparable in size to the Sigma Art offerings of similar speed and focal length. The Loxia lenses are one or more stops slower than comparable Sigma offerings and don't offer autofocus. Batis lenses are not all that small for what they offer (their 85 f/1.8 is much bigger than Sony's comparable offering), are slower than the Art lenses, and in some cases are nearly the same size (their 135 f/2.8 is bigger than Canon's 135 f/2L, and starts to approach the size of the Sigma Art 135 f/1.8, which is more than a stop faster).

I've yet to see a lens that offers all four of the things I would love for my Sony lenses - (i) great optics, (ii) best-in-class speed, (iii) compactness, and (iv) autofocus. Leica M Summiluxes offer (i), (ii) and (iii), and with the use of third-party adapters like the TechArt pro offer increasingly competent AF. That's the closest I've seen the perfect solution for my uses, and given the direction Sony, Zeiss, Sigma (and even Leica nowadays) are going with their lenses, I doubt we'll be seeing compact but fast AF lenses for Sony cameras any time soon. I appreciate that this is a very difficult thing to accomplish given the constraints in engineering optical systems and AF motors, but it almost feels like companies feeding the mirrorless lens market aren't really trying to make them smaller... heck even the lenses on Leica's SL cameras are absolutely massive.


Edited on Sep 30, 2017 at 06:34 PM · View previous versions



Sep 30, 2017 at 10:48 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Arka wrote:
Maybe. I'd certainly agree that small size hasn't been a priority for Sigma's latest lenses (though quality of optics certainly has). However, it doesn't seem fair to compare the latest Art lenses, which are all very fast, offer tremendous image quality and full autofocus capability, to the Sony or Zeiss offerings available for the Sony cameras. The only Sony lenses that are small are the ones that are f/1.8 or slower. Once you get into their f/1.4 G-master primes, the lenses are huge, and comparable in size to the Sigma Art offerings of similar speed and focal length. The Loxia
...Show more

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the Sigma CEO said the it was the mount diameter that prevented small high IQ lenses, which in my view was just a lame excuse. It isn't really the mount diameter, although I do acknowledge that the mount diameter combined with the short flange distance creates some issues for design. The real problem is that small, high IQ, fast aperture, and low price can't be accomplished and that has nothing to do with the mount. Sigma of late has done a good job of making fast aperture, high IQ lenses and bringing them in at a price below OEM lenses, but these lenses are very large. Would this strategy work for Sony lenses? I think that was what Sigma was trying to figure out. An alternative for the Sony world is developing high IQ slightly slower aperture lenses and keeping them small and bringing them in at a lower price than OEM lenses. I don't know what Sigma is going to do, but my view is that they didn't make a decision what they were going to do with Sony lenses and the CEO said the mount think mostly as a dodge. If I had a guess they will follow the strategy they have taken with the SLR lenses and make big lenses that are high IQ and fast aperture, but at a lower price than OEM lenses. Definitely not my cup of tea, but I still think it will be good for Sony to have more lenses available. I just hope the Sigma CEO doesn't say these lenses had to be big because of the mount diameter. They had to be big because if you keep the price lower than OEM lenses then you can't have small, high IQ, and fast aperture.



Sep 30, 2017 at 01:02 PM
TakenWild
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


The only Sigma lenses that interest me for Sony are their great 150mm 2.8 macro or tele zooms.


Sep 30, 2017 at 01:50 PM
TakenWild
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


The Sigma 14mm 1.8 is too heavy for Sony, when lenses like the Laowa 15mm f2 exist.


Sep 30, 2017 at 01:53 PM
kevindar
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


I would be very excited for this. Sigma makes great value lenses and would put some price pressure on sony, whose lenses are pretty expensive.
right now, I am using sony 24 and 35 1.4, 85 1.2, and sigma 50 1.4 all with adapter on a7RII. would love to have good quality, affordable, native mount lenses at 1.4-1.8 (the only one right now being the sony fe 85 1.8)



Sep 30, 2017 at 01:59 PM
justruss
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Blows on the dice...

And hopes for a reasonably-sized, great rendering (I'll even take clinical), 35mm. Come on!



Oct 01, 2017 at 01:15 PM
kevindar
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


justruss wrote:
Blows on the dice...

And hopes for a reasonably-sized, great rendering (I'll even take clinical), 35mm. Come on!


and ideally, with a bit of size savings. I will not buy the sigma art 50 1.4 and 85 1.4 at their current beast sizes. I would



Oct 01, 2017 at 03:10 PM
Arka
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Actually, if I were Sigma, I'd take the safe road and opt for massive, perfect optical quality over very good, but lighter weight lenses. Sigma has spent over a decade changing their reputation as a lens manufacturer, working their way up from just another third-party lens maker with quality issues to a manufacturer of premier optics at reasonable prices. Companies like Zeiss maintain their reputation even as they release optically sound but ridiculously large lenses like the Otus line, and even Leica's new SL lenses are enormous... hard to believe that's the same company that makes the M-system when you look at the SL's proportions.

If Sigma could somehow make a really good lens that weighed even 20% less than a perfectly corrected version, I have no doubt the product would be lambasted across the Internet as lacking in absolute imaging quality. I for one am willing to make some sacrifices in sharpness or detail for reductions in size (hence my love of M-system lenses on Sony cameras), but that doesn't seem to be the market trend, or the way to maintain one's reputation as a premium optics company.



Oct 05, 2017 at 07:28 AM
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