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1DX II Sensor issues
  
 
ggreene
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p.21 #1 · p.21 #1 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Chimping wrote:
Again, I ask: Whether you think it's oil or just dust, why does this seem perfectly normal?


I would say it's both.

It's normal for me as I've used 1D bodies for some time and they all have to be cleaned. Just part of maintenance. I hate packing up gear and sending it to Canon. Too much hassle when a 10-15 min Visible Dust session solves the problem. Too many forum posts about Canon cleanings that come back dirty also. Rather do it myself that way I know it gets done.

Will ML resolve this issue? I don't know. If you read forums they have to deal with it as well.



Dec 07, 2017 at 08:18 PM
kosin
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p.21 #2 · p.21 #2 · 1DX II Sensor issues


therealthings wrote:
I was wondering, since we have a few very confident cleaners here on FM, if you could share your cleaning method/technique with us, and how clean that method gets your 1dx II sensor.

I'd like to know the exact products used, and method to use them step by step.
I just watched a video from Lensrentals but i can not believe anyone can walk through those steps in a few minutes. So please share...


For those sending your cameras to Canon everytime you need sensor cleaned, are you guys insuring the package? If not, you are nuts. I would rather clean the sensor myself than risk shipping $6000 camera and have it lost or damaged during shipping.

Unless you live nearby a Canon facility, so you can drop off your camera for free, or are Platinum ($300) CPS member (that covers shipping both ways), you have to cover the shipping cost. Here in US, the cheapest way of shipping is via USPS which caps off the insurance at $5000. Just the insurance alone costs over $60 - This can quickly add up if you are really picky about the cleanliness of your sensor... Adding the time without the camera, sensor swabs don't look so expensive anymore, do they?

Here is how I go about cleaning sensors:

1. Test shot.
2. Blowing the dust off in/around the mirror assembly/chamber with a rocket blower http://amzn.to/2iL6tPk After initiating the "manual sensor clean" in the menu, blowing the sensor off.
3. Test shot.
4. If more cleaning needed, I use the GelStick: http://amzn.to/2kKIvb4 - http://youtu.be/fetJfPILU3o
5. Test shot.
6. If there is more dust, I target the problem area (while referencing the last test shot on the computer monitor) with the GelStick.
7. Test shot.
8. If there are still stubborn spots that didn't move, I perform the wet clean using swab and Eclipse fluid: http://amzn.to/2kfjGQt

Following above steps in that particular order, assures that I don't have any "hard" particles left on the sensor that could damage it while swiping the swab across. In those instances that sensors were scratched during the wet clean, most likely the tech picked the wet method right away to "save time".

If between the test shots new dust spots show up, it means that new dust just entered and can be easily cleaned with another pass with a GelStick or Rocket Blower.

I barely ever had to perform the "wet clean" as either GelStick picked up everything that was on the sensor or tiny spots that were still there, didn't bother me much. A fun fact: until recently, I was still on my original 12-pack of VisibleDust Swabs from the days when 20D came out! Yep, that's exactly how often I needed to wet clean my cameras, and this includes 2x 1DXs with over 200,000 shots each and 1DXII with over 150,000 shots. Go figure.

As this thread continues to spread a "dust paranoia" in me , I just bought a proper new set of swabs. By proper, I mean full frame size, as the ones I had were for 1.6x crop cameras. Someone referred to me this, less known company: The Dust Patrol. Apparently, their swabs are being used in many camera labs, as their swabs are made from a folded material and not "welded" one. Something I've never considered until now. "Alpha Premium Sensor Cleaning Swabs are folded, not welded. Welding the edges is a cheaper way to manufacturer swabs, but it leaves sharp corners that can scratch the coating on the sensor." - Dust Patrol
For those looking to save money, you can buy just a 4-pack of these swabs http://amzn.to/2Bps2jR and reuse swabs/sticks with these wipes http://amzn.to/2AO8nbU using the Cooperhill's method: http://youtu.be/IiUDfbQthqU

Overall, it doesn't take long to clean the sensor. The most time consuming part are the test shots. Taking a photo, uploading it to the computer etc. Therefore, I bought this cheap sensor loupe: http://amzn.to/2kgy2Af Of course, there are more expensive ones on the market: http://visibledust.com/products/quasar-r-5x-sensor-loupe-magnifier-with-dark-adaptation-technology/ but this one does the job. Funny, right after opening it, I spent 10 minutes lurking around the 1DXII's chamber looking for signs of lubricant splatter to no avail. Damn you Chimping for "creating" this paranoia Amazing how much dust there is in the chamber and around the mirror box waiting to land on the sensor. Next big thing should be "How to clean the chamber/mirror assembly"

Just a side note. Take a look at the mirror. Mine was covered with a "foggy" residue, just like a windshield in your car if you don't clean it for long period of time. I bet this has a negative affect on AF and exposure accuracy as well. Just a gentle pass with a microfiber cloth (http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/canon-ef-lens-cleaning-cloth) and it was clean as new

Happy cleaning!



Dec 09, 2017 at 08:34 PM
2slo
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p.21 #3 · p.21 #3 · 1DX II Sensor issues


I'm glad I found this thread as I'm looking to buy a new Canon DSLR in the near future. I own/ have owned several Canon cameras over the years inc two 1 series: the 1DmkIV (which I still own) and the 1Dx which I bought new almost 4 years ago and which I sold last year.
To add to what's already written on here, my 1Dx was one of the '2nd batch' which my dealer assured me, apparently via canon, had had the oil spatter on the sensor issue sorted by an upgraded mirror assembly. Wrong. To cut a long story short, in the 3 years I owned the camera, it had two new mirror assemblies fitted and went back to Canon 5 or 6 times for sensor cleaning. Now I'll say it first, I should have rejected the camera but at the time many other owners were having the same issues and it seemed that getting a replacement body wouldn't have made me any better off. I really wanted to like the 1Dx, when it was working properly, the images it produced were really good, and had the edge over the 5Diii.
Anyway, I persisted and taught myself how to clean the dust and spots with swabs and fluid when required. I ran this 1Dx alongside a 5Diii which I bought at around the same time (and still own). The 5Diii has never given me any trouble and has needed minimal sensor cleaning. The 1Dx, as well as all the sensor issues, also needed two new circuit boards in my tenure. I was glad to see it go.
So back to the present day and I'm looking to upgrade to a new ff body. I found this thread and I'm appalled to read that many owners of the 1Dx ii have all the same problems I had with the sensor on the mk i. Worse yet, stories of sensors scratched and needing replacement by owners doing their own cleaning!
So, as a potential 1 series repeat buyer, I'm likely going to downsize to a 5D iv. I have't read of any comparable issues with that body, unless anyone can tell me different?



Jan 14, 2018 at 12:54 PM
ggreene
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p.21 #4 · p.21 #4 · 1DX II Sensor issues


2slo wrote:
So, as a potential 1 series repeat buyer, I'm likely going to downsize to a 5D iv. I have't read of any comparable issues with that body, unless anyone can tell me different?


Depends on your FPS needs, your DOF needs, and your willingness to clean your sensor.

I've got a 1DX2 with over 300K shots on it and I rarely see any sensor dust/oil on my shots but I shoot sports with lenses wide open. A certain part of this is knowing the right tool for the job.

You need to look at your own usage to really make a good decision.



Jan 14, 2018 at 03:36 PM
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p.21 #5 · p.21 #5 · 1DX II Sensor issues


ggreene wrote:
Depends on your FPS needs, your DOF needs, and your willingness to clean your sensor.

I've got a 1DX2 with over 300K shots on it and I rarely see any sensor dust/oil on my shots but I shoot sports with lenses wide open. A certain part of this is knowing the right tool for the job.

You need to look at your own usage to really make a good decision.


Very true, in my case the new camera needs to be a jack of all trades, some use with super teles between f2.8 and f8 for wildlife but also some use stopped down to f13 or f16 for landscapes etc. With the original 1Dx I tended to stick to the former and avoid the latter, not good for such an expensive outlay.
In your case you're unlikely to see much in the way of dust spots etc, they really aren't apparent until you narrow the aperture past f8.




Jan 14, 2018 at 03:52 PM
ggreene
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p.21 #6 · p.21 #6 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Canon 5D4 is their best "jack of all trades" right now. Unfortunately, they have nothing in the realm of a D850 or A7R3. We'll have to wait and see what they do with the successor to the 5DsR. Do they compete or not?

In the meantime, I would keep the 1D4 for wildlife and get the 5D4 for general use.



Jan 14, 2018 at 04:09 PM
arbitrage
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p.21 #7 · p.21 #7 · 1DX II Sensor issues


2slo wrote:
I'm glad I found this thread as I'm looking to buy a new Canon DSLR in the near future. I own/ have owned several Canon cameras over the years inc two 1 series: the 1DmkIV (which I still own) and the 1Dx which I bought new almost 4 years ago and which I sold last year.
To add to what's already written on here, my 1Dx was one of the '2nd batch' which my dealer assured me, apparently via canon, had had the oil spatter on the sensor issue sorted by an upgraded mirror assembly. Wrong. To cut a long
...Show more

Way, way back in this thread I posted shots from my 1DX2 and 5D4. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1510567/4#14204868
The 5D4 was looking good after ~7 months of use. My 1DX2 showed the upper left concentrated splatter. I cleaned my 1DX2 myself a few weeks ago, first with gel stick for the larger spots (which seem to be normal dust) and then with two VD swabs. The swabs did the job except in the most extreme little triangle of the upper left corner as I didn't push the swab right up there. I'm sure it will build up again soon but I only use the 1DX2 for f/4-f/8 work and the 5D4 will be used for stopped down work. For a general purpose camera the 5D4 is a great camera if you are okay with 7FPS.



Jan 14, 2018 at 04:18 PM
2slo
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p.21 #8 · p.21 #8 · 1DX II Sensor issues


ggreene wrote:
... I would keep the 1D4 for wildlife and get the 5D4 for general use.


Thanks, that's pretty much where I'm at at the moment, just waiting for a good deal to come along.
---------------------------------------------

arbitrage wrote:
Way, way back in this thread I posted shots from my 1DX2 and 5D4. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1510567/4#14204868
The 5D4 was looking good after ~7 months of use. My 1DX2 showed the upper left concentrated splatter. I cleaned my 1DX2 myself a few weeks ago, first with gel stick for the larger spots (which seem to be normal dust) and then with two VD swabs. The swabs did the job except in the most extreme little triangle of the upper left corner as I didn't push the swab right up there. I'm sure it will build up again soon but I only use
...Show more

Thanks. I shot around 40k frames with the 1Dx when I had it, only a few times did I really need the full fps rate, mostly diving Kingfishers and other small birds in flight. Otherwise, the 7 fps that the 5D iv will do should suffice.
As I said in my original post, although I wanted to like the 1Dx for the IQ it could generate when working properly with a clean sensor, I can't envisage buying another one with the expectation of never using it past f8.




Jan 14, 2018 at 04:43 PM
Chimping
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p.21 #9 · p.21 #9 · 1DX II Sensor issues


2slo wrote:
So, as a potential 1 series repeat buyer, I'm likely going to downsize to a 5D iv. I have't read of any comparable issues with that body, unless anyone can tell me different?


There's no major issues with sensor oil splatter on the 5DIV. The only cameras that seems to persistently have the splatter problem are Canon's latest 1D series. If you plan on stopping down past f/8 regularly, go for the 5DIV. People in this thread hounded me that the splatter is non-issue; I disagree completely. As you, I wanted the 1DX Mark II as a jack of all trades camera. It simply isn't, and that's because of the splatter issue.

I've sent CanonUSA and CanonCanada images from over 30 different 1DX Mark II cameras now and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them show the same thing -- excess splatter in the top left of the frame. We're not talking about a few dots here and there, either. The amount of splatter can range in the hundreds. A good illustration would be what people encountered with their Nikon D600 cameras, only on steroids.




Jan 15, 2018 at 06:53 PM
Chimping
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p.21 #10 · p.21 #10 · 1DX II Sensor issues


2slo wrote:
As I said in my original post, although I wanted to like the 1Dx for the IQ it could generate when working properly with a clean sensor, I can't envisage buying another one with the expectation of never using it past f8.




The idea is ridiculous, isn't it? Why people are okay with purchasing a $6000 camera to not use beyond f/8, even if they don't regularly shoot at smaller apertures, is a completely foreign idea to me. In fact, it's completely asinine.



Jan 15, 2018 at 06:56 PM
 

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ggreene
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p.21 #11 · p.21 #11 · 1DX II Sensor issues


The 1DX2 was never a jack of all trades camera. The 5D4 and 5DsR bodies have far more MP for landscape and if you need extra MP with FPS Canon's only alternative is the 7D2 which has it's own issues plus my copy had debris accumulation as well.

The 1D series with high FPS has always been designed mainly for sports/wildlife which focuses more on wide open apertures. I've had to clean every one of mine a couple times a year going back to 2004 and if I knew I had a high DOF event coming up I would clean it beforehand. It's simply maintenance. If you don't like cleaning the sensor then you bought the wrong camera. It amazes me that people buy a $6000+ camera without doing any research into it.



Jan 15, 2018 at 08:47 PM
Eyvind Ness
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p.21 #12 · p.21 #12 · 1DX II Sensor issues


It's been a while and lots of documented issues. Did you ever get a serious reply back from Canon?



Jan 15, 2018 at 08:52 PM
Chimping
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p.21 #13 · p.21 #13 · 1DX II Sensor issues


ggreene wrote:
The 1DX2 was never a jack of all trades camera. The 5D4 and 5DsR bodies have far more MP for landscape and if you need extra MP with FPS Canon's only alternative is the 7D2 which has it's own issues plus my copy had debris accumulation as well.

The 1D series with high FPS has always been designed mainly for sports/wildlife which focuses more on wide open apertures. I've had to clean every one of mine a couple times a year going back to 2004 and if I knew I had a high DOF event coming up I would clean it
...Show more

It amazes me that people think like you do: that a camera has to be cleaned this frequently is normal. No other high speed camera does. Keep making excuses for your lemon. Itís laughable.



Jan 15, 2018 at 10:00 PM
Chimping
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p.21 #14 · p.21 #14 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Eyvind Ness wrote:
It's been a while and lots of documented issues. Did you ever get a serious reply back from Canon?


Nope. Canon has stayed silent.

There are grounds for a lawsuit here.



Jan 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM
ggreene
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p.21 #15 · p.21 #15 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Chimping wrote:

There are grounds for a lawsuit here.


Yeah, good luck with that.



Jan 15, 2018 at 10:10 PM
Chimping
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p.21 #16 · p.21 #16 · 1DX II Sensor issues


ggreene wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that.


Never said I was going to, just that there are grounds. With fanboys like yourself abound, it would probably never get off the ground anyways.

Anyways, remember people, according to greene, Kosin, et al: donít shoot any large groups of people, landscapes, or air shows with your $6000 camera!! Do your research!!!



Jan 15, 2018 at 10:55 PM
CanadaMark
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p.21 #17 · p.21 #17 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Aside from this thread (and older 1DX users) where many cases have been documented, I have come across more than a few 1DXII users now complaining about extreme/excess oil splatter. Imagine if back in 2012, D600 users who experienced the oil issue were told to deal with it or shoot at wider apertures - I can't even imagine the backlash. I can't help but wonder if that PR disaster is one reason why Canon is so hesitant to release an advisory. I am of course talking about excess splatter, not just the odd speck here and there accumulating over many months of use. The issue also reminds me of when Apple responded to iPhone 4 reception issues by telling people they were holding the phone wrong. This is absolutely unacceptable on a camera of this caliber (or any camera, really) in my opinion, and similar cameras do not have the same issue. Canon's usual course of action seems to be ignoring the issue so they can avoid putting the issue on record with a service advisory, so if I had to guess I doubt we'll see anything official for this one.


Jan 15, 2018 at 11:03 PM
ggreene
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p.21 #18 · p.21 #18 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Chimping wrote:
according to greene, Kosin, et al: donít shoot any large groups of people, landscapes, or air shows with your $6000 camera!! Do your research!!!


The entire 1D series has sensor crap accumulation over time. Where have you been? Do you typically buy other expensive items blindly? Hopefully you got your money back. I would think ML would be the way to go. An A9 is only $4500. No mirror and electronic shutter. Sounds perfect for you.

Why stick with a camera that is not doing what you want?



Jan 16, 2018 at 12:44 AM
kosin
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p.21 #19 · p.21 #19 · 1DX II Sensor issues


Chimping wrote:
Anyways, remember people, according to greene, Kosin, et al: donít shoot any large groups of people, landscapes, or air shows with your $6000 camera!! Do your research!!!


Actually, you said it yourself!

Chimping wrote:
"So many users of this camera shoot primarily sports or some other type of action photography where their lenses stay wide open, or don't go narrower than f/5.6. So, to them, sensor dust and weird lines are indeed a nonissue."


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1510567/3#14203819



Jan 16, 2018 at 01:28 AM
Chimping
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p.21 #20 · p.21 #20 · 1DX II Sensor issues


kosin wrote:
Actually, you said it yourself!



http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1510567/3#14203819


OH GOOD FIND!!!! Well done, lad!!

Except, that just proves my point further on what I was mocking Greene for. The vast majority of shooters on this camera shoot wide open, such as yourself. They then disparage others, just like what you've done in the past, that want to use the camera for all shooting purposes. I think yours, and Greene's, mentality is completely asinine; people should be able to use these cameras for whatever purposes they want; oil splatter should not happen to this degree, PERIOD.

You're such a detective. Look at you go.


Edited on Jan 16, 2018 at 05:01 AM · View previous versions



Jan 16, 2018 at 04:56 AM
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