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New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?
  
 
alundeb
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


dhphoto wrote:
Of course a 90mm is more useful than a 135mm


Specifically between these two lenses, that depends on what other lenses you have.

You have implicitly acknowledged the use cases we have mentioned for the 135, when you have said that you believe the same could have been done with 90 mm. The same goes the other way. Many things that you would choose a 90mm for, could also be done with a 135 mm. Which one you choose is a matter of preference and does not need justification, as Jim said.



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:01 PM
alundeb
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


dhphoto wrote:
If you ever have to shoot something the size of a large fridge-freezer you are going to run out of room very quickly.


Or use the 45 mm he also has.



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:03 PM
dhphoto
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


alundeb wrote:
Specifically between these two lenses, that depends on what other lenses you have.

You have implicitly acknowledged the use cases we have mentioned for the 135, when you have said that you believe the same could have been done with 90 mm. The same goes the other way. Many things that you would choose a 90mm for, could also be done with a 135 mm. Which one you choose is a matter of preference and does not need justification, as Jim said.


No. As I said in the previous post the 135mm will make you a long way from your subject and if your subject is large you will run out of studio space very quickly, plus you may struggle to get everything in focus.

Most 135mm subjects could be shot with a 90mm but not always the other way round



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:04 PM
dhphoto
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


alundeb wrote:
Or use the 45 mm he also has.


You suggested the 135mm would do instead of both the 90mm AND 180mm macro, that is what I am talking about, as you well know

Frankly this is a pointless conversation.
I see very little point in the 135mm t/s, I hope those that have invested really like their purchase and get loads of use out of it.



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:06 PM
alundeb
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


dhphoto wrote:
No. As I said in the previous post the 135mm will make you a long way from your subject and if your subject is large you will run out of studio space very quickly, plus you may struggle to get everything in focus.

Most 135mm subjects could be shot with a 90mm but not always the other way round


And as I said in the post above, you can use 45 / 50 mm in the studio, in addition to the 135.

What about subjects requiring longer than 135 mm.

It is just silly to argue that 45 + 90 + 180 is generally more useful than say 24 + 50 + 135



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:10 PM
Fast6
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


dhphoto wrote:
Frankly this is a pointless conversation.
I see very little point in the 135mm t/s,


You've made 17 posts in this thread to that effect. I think you've made your position clear.



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:20 PM
dhphoto
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Fast6 wrote:
You've made 17 posts in this thread to that effect. I think you've made your position clear.


Thanks for checking, you must have some time on your hands, the last one was going to be my last but it seems this one now is.
I still think I'm right by the way



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:22 PM
danski0224
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


jcolwell wrote:
That's not my thought process. My kit has room. Maybe that's a sign it's not a full kit. Have to work on it...


Blasphemy!

The kit can never be full.






Sep 27, 2017 at 08:24 PM
jcolwell
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


P.S. I bet the TS-E 135L comes with a tripod mount ring.


Sep 27, 2017 at 08:32 PM
Fast6
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


What can I say - the sound of a dead horse being beaten attracts attention


Sep 27, 2017 at 08:37 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



RobDickinson
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


jcolwell wrote:
P.S. I bet the TS-E 135L comes with a tripod mount ring.


IMO all primes should at least have a 1/4" tripod thread or ring attachment on the nodal point

I think the issue here is canon have spent a lot of time and effort making a lens they will sell literally dozens of when they could have made say a 50mm f1.4 IS or updated the 135L or 24/1.4L etc



Sep 27, 2017 at 08:48 PM
cmplaya
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


splathrop wrote:
Might the stresses and strains add up give an unwanted new meaning to "tilt" and "shift?"


I like that



Sep 27, 2017 at 09:42 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Tilt shift lens sales are in the thousands (per lens), not dozens. As 35mm digital gets better (in particular, higher resolution), more of the past applications of view cameras are done with 35mm cameras. This is probably why both Canon and Nikon are introducing new and more advanced tilt shift lenses.

I personally could post many examples of landscape shots I've made around the 135mm focal length (either with a 135mm prime or a telezoom) that would be a bit better if they had been shot with a 135mm tilt shift. I use 120mm lenses on a tilt-shift bellows for close up work, e.g. getting several flowers on the forest floor in focus. I think the angle of view is very useful for both landscape and close-ups. The advantage of a tilt/shift lens with built in helicoid is better handling of bad weather and ease of use compared to a bellows setup.

For head shots I like to use 105mm focal length but I've read that in the US many photographers prefer longer focal lengths such as 135mm. A tilt/shift 135mm would permit getting both eyes in focus when the head is not facing directly the camera but slightly to the side. Of course this requires careful focusing and adjustment of the tilt.

And you never know what else people come up with.



Sep 27, 2017 at 11:49 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


ggreene wrote:
Yeah, I have to agree. I would have thought an updated 135/2 with IS would have been a more popular choice with better ROI.


This is a hard lens to make a case for; the 135/2L is sharp enough and fast focusing, while being compact, but a modern 135/2L IS may give up some of those, in addition to being priced very likely close to the 70-200/2.8L II, with which it would compete. The niche where a 135/2L IS makes sense is very small. Of course, I can't comment as to whether that niche would be smaller or larger next the niche of this T/S 135/4 L .

[note three points of comparison for 135/2 vs. 70-200/2.8: first, noise has gone down with modern sensors while AF sensitivity has gone up, negating the advantage of the faster f/2 aperture somewhat, while a 70-200/2.8 has the same depth of field with more compression at 200/2.8 as the 135mm lens does at f/2- and the zoom is far more versatile]



Sep 28, 2017 at 01:48 AM
alundeb
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


RobDickinson wrote:
I think the issue here is canon have spent a lot of time and effort making a lens they will sell literally dozens of when they could have made say a 50mm f1.4 IS or updated the 135L or 24/1.4L etc


johnctharp wrote:
The niche where a 135/2L IS makes sense is very small. Of course, I can't comment as to whether that niche would be smaller or larger next the niche of this T/S 135/4 L .


That's a good question. The arguments that 135 mm is a focal length with little use, is the same for a f/2 IS as for a TS-E Macro. Especially now that we have the 85 mm f/1.4 L IS.

When new lenses or cameras are announced, there will always be people who wanted a different lens or a different camera. There will also be people who justify in public why they do not want the new lens. That is normal. What I don't like, is when answers to the question "why would anyone want" are argued against, like those reasons are not valid.




Sep 28, 2017 at 06:17 AM
alundeb
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Here is what the owner of this site thinks about the lens:

Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm very interested on the TS-E 135/4L Macro. It seems to be a very versatile and unique lens.


Note the word "versatile".

From this thread:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1506288/1#14161592



Sep 28, 2017 at 06:41 AM
splathrop
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


I was a full time studio shooter for over 25 years, that's why I commented in the first place

Well, there is the difference. In the studio, you use given equipment flexibly to match lighting and shooting distances to the subject. On the beach, you must be able to match a selection of equipment (less flexibly) to various given light conditions and shooting distances. They are, in a manner of speaking, opposite practices, with different implications for optimal kit.

I am sure your studio experience gives you good judgment for the studio context. No doubt, your comments reflect that. I welcome the points you made, and thank you for them. If nothing else, they are relevant to my purchasing decision, because they say something about the size of the resale market I can expect.



Sep 28, 2017 at 07:06 AM
Flowernut
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Personally, I do not see this as a studio lens. To me this is a nature photography lens. Mine is on order. I will use it for flower photography. A lot of the old nature 4x5 guys I would expect will order it too. I've been doing flower photography for something like 50 years. I progressed from a 50mm to a 100mm to a 150mm and to a 180/200mm macro lenses. Right now I am using a 90mm t/s with a 2x converter as I have since the 90mm t/s canon became available. Before that a Nikon pb-4 bellows set up to mount on a canon body with a 150mm Schneider enlarging lens. The bellows was sharper but most flower photos are not enlarged that much so I was willing to make the trade off for a more compact system. With the 135mm T/S I will only need the 1.4x which should be sharper than what I'm using now. Given a choice, I'd have made the lens a 180/200mm t/s f4. I had the 200mm f4 FD macro lens and was satisfied with f4 as a compromise between speed and size.

There are four reasons a longer lens is better for flower photography. First since the background is at a distance behind the subject, for a given subject size in the frame, a longer lens takes in less less background which makes finding a pleasing background easier. This is very important. Second, greater working distance give additional space for light modification tools such as reflectors or LED lights. The other reasons are more for convenience. Third, if your camera has any down angle at all, it means the camera is higher from the ground the longer the lens which makes life easier for us old guys. Fourth, being further back, tripod place is not as critical. Moving the camera an inch in any direction 2 ft away from the subject will make less of a change in composition than if the camera is only a foot away. To a large extent, this eliminates the need of focusing rails in my work. In prairies for example, a canon 300mm f4 (1/4 life size all on its own more with 1.4x) makes sense for background control but you loose t/s. The longest lens I ever used for a flower photo (just one) was a 600mm using the old canon FD 150-600 f5.6.

The advantage of a t/s for macro is that you can position the camera for the composition you want and then move the plane of focus to fit that composition. Otherwise, you have to get the back of the camera parallel to the plane of your subject which may not produce the best composition or entail compromise. Not that many people use a t/s for flowers but I do and really like it.

A tilt shift for landscape guys is valuable not only for DOF but also is a great way to do panoramas with the shift mechanism. There are several very accomplished nature photographers in US that use that technique. Many people I know already use converters with the T/S lenses for scenics.

As to the original question, the 90mm with a 2x is over 30 oz. At one time I had a lens collar that Kirk made that would fit the 2x converter that I used so that I could mount the combination on the tripod closer to the center of gravity. My experience is that with a good L bracket, a camera like a 1d or 5d series, and a decent ball head, the weight is not a problem with my current system and no lens collar. The force (moment) on the lens mount is a combination of the weight as well as the distance that the center of gravity of the lens is from the mount. This system will be heavier and further out but I'm not expecting issues. When this lens is released to the public we should have a definitive answer. Right now it is speculation.




Sep 29, 2017 at 03:31 AM
EB-1
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Are the engineers at Canon so daft they would not test a mockup of the lens on a camera in addition to the computer modeling? A 70-200/4 is not a problem and that is a longer lens.

EBH



Sep 29, 2017 at 04:05 AM
Flowernut
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · New TS-E 135葉oo heavy for 5D-class body on tripod?


Good observation. By now Canon has tried the lens on a camera mounted on a tripod as you suggest. It has also probably been out to some of their prerelease testers.

I'm not sure I share you confidence in the camera companies. Nikon had a 70-200 f2.8 lens they made roughly 30 years ago without a tripod collar and it really needed one. I'm a little fuzzy on this but I think Kirk eventually made an aftermarket collar for it.

Canon makes a tripod collar for the 70-200 f4 as an optional accessory.





Sep 29, 2017 at 02:27 PM
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