Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

  

Crop Vs. No Crop
  
 
Blakehfreeman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Ok, I've read a number of times over the past few days and weeks "just buy the 24mm and crop it to 28mm" and same regarding 105mm vs 135mm.

I always considered cropping a use of last resort - am I crazy?



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:03 AM
charles.K
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Crop Vs. No Crop


It very much depends on you. Personally I try to avoid cropping and shoot using the entire frame as much as possible. If the FL does not suit I will usually opt for the appropriate FL. Cropping is fine but if you are shooting people the compression and distortion with 20mm or 24mm will not change if you crop so I find it harder to get the portrait look that I am after.

If you are shooting sports or BIF the discussion is very different as to the IQ difference comparing with crop sensors maybe very similar.



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:12 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Blakehfreeman wrote:
Ok, I've read a number of times over the past few days and weeks "just buy the 24mm and crop it to 28mm" and same regarding 105mm vs 135mm.

I always considered cropping a use of last resort - am I crazy?


It really depends on your print size and resolution needs.

In your "shoot at 24 and crop to 28mm" example, you would not be losing too much resolution.
So, let's say you shoot with a D810 (36MP).

28mm/24mm = 1.166
36MP/1.166/1.166 = 26MP

So, if a 26MP file is adequate for its final output, I'd say you are fine cropping.



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:18 AM
gpelpel
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Nothing wrong with cropping. I rather see a well framed cropped image than a sloppy composed non cropped one.

High resolution sensors make cropping a very useful tool. A good example is birds in flight.
- Most bodies have a very limited number of AF crops sensors especially when using a teleconverter or a slow zoom; these sensors are always in the center of the viewfinder. I make it a habit to use the center sensor as my main focus point knowing that I will crop my shot later.
- As birds can move erratically across the frame centering the subject allows for some leeway to avoid wing or tail clipping.

In landscape shots I often know when my shot will end a cropped pano before pressing the shutter.

It's easy to perfectly frame your shot in controlled situations such in a studio or with posed subjects, not so much with erratic subjects like wildlife or in sports.



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:21 AM
swifty168
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Of course you're not crazy. It's just what some people consider acceptable or unacceptable as long as you know the limitations of what happens when you crop.
Also I hate to bring up the issue of equivalence, but that's what you'd have to consider when you crop.
Also, cos we can't have all the focal lengths and lenses that we'd ideally like to have so it's an acceptable compromise for some of us.

I wrote this hypothetical many years ago and now it's come to fruition with the release of a new stonking 28mm f1.4, and coupled with a large MP camera such as the D850.
You'd get:
28mm f1.4 FF @ 46MP
~36mm f1.8 (FF equiv DOF) APS-H crop @27MP
~42mm f2.1(FF equiv DOF) APS-C crop @20MP
~56mm f2.8(FF equiv DOF) m43 crop @11.5MP

The m43 calculation's a bit off cos of the change in aspect ratio but it gives you a rough idea.

The more you crop the more you compromise of course but the starting point now has given us so much room to move and many of us don't need the whole FF all of the time.



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:24 AM
Blakehfreeman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Crop Vs. No Crop


I agree with the comments above, and am weirded out that they're all thoughtful and respectful... (not sure if the internet is doomed after all)

I am not bothered by cropping to fix small composition errors etc, I'm bothered when someone walks into an image sure they'll crop aggressively. BIF are different to me, due to the unpredictable nature of birds and the difficulty getting a long enough lens for the image.



Sep 25, 2017 at 03:28 AM
Blakehfreeman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Nice to see you wondering our parts, didn't know you ventured into Nikon land much!

Fred Miranda wrote:
It really depends on your print size and resolution needs.

In your "shoot at 24 and crop to 28mm" example, you would not be losing too much resolution.
So, let's say you shoot with a D810 (36MP).

28mm/24mm = 1.166
36MP/1.166/1.166 = 26MP

So, if a 26MP file is adequate for its final output, I'd say you are fine cropping.




Sep 25, 2017 at 03:36 AM
mbphoto_2.8
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Crop Vs. No Crop


The D810 offers a 1.2x crop mode.

Using my 24/1.8G I now have both a 24 and a 28mm lens in one. And the latter will still produce images with higher resolution than a D750 or D610, or D5 can produce.

Also, it's not only compromises for me, because the 24/1.8G is sharper in the center and midframe than both the 28/1.8G AND a 24/1.4G. add to that the fact that the 24mm suffers from serious vignetting wide open, which would be "cut away" when cropping.
Cropping the 24/1.8G will thus result in an incredibly sharp 28mm f/1.8 or 36/1.8.

I don't fully agree re the equivalence calculations. F/1.8 stays f/1.8, for exposure, because the sensor area is reduced and the amount of light per pixel is the same. And in landscapes or snapshots of any kind, you generally shoot small apertures anyways.

Sure, for shallow dof, at the same subject distance, the cropped 24 would appear slightly slower, but that's more of an issue for the tele lenses.



Sep 25, 2017 at 07:26 AM
vitalishe
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Crop Vs. No Crop


swifty168 wrote:
Of course you're not crazy. It's just what some people consider acceptable or unacceptable as long as you know the limitations of what happens when you crop.
Also I hate to bring up the issue of equivalence, but that's what you'd have to consider when you crop.
Also, cos we can't have all the focal lengths and lenses that we'd ideally like to have so it's an acceptable compromise for some of us.

I wrote this hypothetical many years ago and now it's come to fruition with the release of a new stonking 28mm f1.4, and coupled with a large MP camera such
...Show more

That's exactly my thinking. I call it "digital zoom".

In particular one could compare Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art against their 24-35 f2 Art. Using digital zoom the 24 1.4 is equivalent to 24-35 f1.4-2 which is faster than 24-35 f2 throughout most of the range. So one may argue that when choosing between these two lenses one is better off going with 24 1.4 with little downside.




Sep 25, 2017 at 07:16 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



swifty168
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Crop Vs. No Crop


vitalishe wrote:
That's exactly my thinking. I call it "digital zoom".

In particular one could compare Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art against their 24-35 f2 Art. Using digital zoom the 24 1.4 is equivalent to 24-35 f1.4-2 which is faster than 24-35 f2 throughout most of the range. So one may argue that when choosing between these two lenses one is better off going with 24 1.4 with little downside.



Yes I agree. I had this discussion on another forum previously.
Of course the obvious downside is the loss in resolution.
If you're more a 35mm person but occasionally like to go wider, then the 24-35 f2's probably still the better bet. If you're a 24mm or 28mm person and sometimes like to go longer, then the 'digital zoom' method looks pretty ideal, even up against owning 2 primes just because of the convenience factor.



Sep 26, 2017 at 02:48 AM
swifty168
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Crop Vs. No Crop


mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
I don't fully agree re the equivalence calculations. F/1.8 stays f/1.8, for exposure, because the sensor area is reduced and the amount of light per pixel is the same. And in landscapes or snapshots of any kind, you generally shoot small apertures anyways.

Sure, for shallow dof, at the same subject distance, the cropped 24 would appear slightly slower, but that's more of an issue for the tele lenses.


Yes, not sure if you're specifically referring to my post but I think I did write equivalence in terms of DOF. I think that part is less controversial than talking about total light even though per unit stays the same so I think I better leave it there before it goes too far OT.



Sep 26, 2017 at 02:54 AM
vitalishe
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Crop Vs. No Crop


mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
I don't fully agree re the equivalence calculations. F/1.8 stays f/1.8, for exposure, because the sensor area is reduced and the amount of light per pixel is the same. And in landscapes or snapshots of any kind, you generally shoot small apertures anyways.

Sure, for shallow dof, at the same subject distance, the cropped 24 would appear slightly slower, but that's more of an issue for the tele lenses.


You also need to use equivalence adjustment to ISO (by a stop). That roughly reflects fidelity of portion of the sensor.



Sep 26, 2017 at 05:38 AM
gdsf2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Crop Vs. No Crop


All that matters is the final print. Taking the shot is step one. Post (cropping, exposure adjustments, color adjustment, sharpening) is part two. It does not matter how you get there. All that matters is the quality of the final print. Post is not cheatng. Remember old Ansel, he would spend a lot more time in the darkroom then he did shooting. In fact, what really made him great was his darkroom skills.

Plus, who wants to print 2:3 all the time. I actually hate that aspect ratio. So crop, crop, crop, away.



Sep 27, 2017 at 03:11 AM
Dj R
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Just be careful. Tough to find a good copy of the 24 1.8g lens.



Sep 27, 2017 at 03:20 AM
Two23
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Blakehfreeman wrote:
Ok, I've read a number of times over the past few days and weeks "just buy the 24mm and crop it to 28mm" and same regarding 105mm vs 135mm.

I always considered cropping a use of last resort - am I crazy?



Yes. Most if not virtually all photos are cropped to some degree. For at least the first 90 years of photography most photographers only owned one lens, and they routinely cropped their prints. I used to use a Rolleiflex, and then a Hassleblad. I still like square compositions. (And 6x6 photographers almost always cropped to get portraits.) Find me a DSLR that shoots square so I don't have to crop.


Kent in SD






Moon Rise at Athabasca, AB




Sep 27, 2017 at 01:49 PM
Two23
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Crop Vs. No Crop


Blakehfreeman wrote:
1. I am not bothered by cropping to fix small composition errors etc, I'm bothered when someone walks into an image sure they'll crop aggressively.

2. BIF are different to me, due to the unpredictable nature of birds and the difficulty getting a long enough lens for the image.



1. Cropping from 24mm to 28mm is not an aggressive crop.

2. I have an article in a 1908 photography journal where the writer was taking photos of small song birds using an 8x10 camera and a 15 inch lens (equivalent to 375mm lens.) A 375mm lens on an 8x10 is roughly equivalent to a 60mm lens on a 35mm camera, I think.) So obviously he was cropping like hell, but the quality was actually very good. Remember that he was starting with a piece of film 80 sq. inches. I'm starting with a piece of film that's 36mp.



Kent in SD




Sep 27, 2017 at 02:00 PM
mbphoto_2.8
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Crop Vs. No Crop




Dj R wrote:
Just be careful. Tough to find a good copy of the 24 1.8g lens.


What would you have to look out for?
Mine seems to be amazing. Sharpness wide open in the center is breathtaking and the landscape shots I got last weekend were awesome too.



Sep 28, 2017 at 01:48 PM







FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password