Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Macro World Resource
  

FM Forums | Macro & Still Life | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2017 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking

  
 
Pavel
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


I wanted to ask if there is a fundamental difference between the results gotten for focus stacking using macro rails, such as Stackshots automated macro rail in contrast to having the focus plane moved via the lens?

Are the results from the two approaches fundamentally the same or are there pros and cons?

I'm becoming interested in focus stacking not so much for macro, just because macro seems a bit daunting but more for table-top photography. I want to try my hand at flower arrangements and also shoot some small and medium sized antiques for a friend.

I've got focus bracketing in my Olympus OM-D EM1 and am looking to purchase a Nikon D850 is six months or so, which has the same feature. Is there an advantage to also considering an automated Focus rail? I'm about to try out Helicon focus and get started in this new direction. There seems to be a lot to learn.

Thanks for any advice and comments.



Sep 24, 2017 at 05:59 AM
LordV
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


Can only say I tend to use the focus ring for stacks at 1:1 or lower mag and fixed focus move the lens for > 1:1 mag.

Brian V.



Sep 24, 2017 at 08:04 AM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


I pretty much do the same thing.

For all 1:1 macros, I use the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar Macro, which has 630° of focus throw (compared to 150° to 270° of modern macro lenses with AF).

For higher, I use a simple RRS B150-B Focus Rail. This rail is only so-so, but it is good and adequate and has lasted me nearly 10 years. If I decide to get another rail, it will likely be a Novoflex.

As far as automated rails go, they're really only for very high-mag studio-stacks of dead arthropods (cells, or whatever), and aren't very practical for carrying out into the field. The manufacturers of the main two (StackShot and WeMacro) do make "holsters," supposedly for the field, but I can't think of too many people who actually use them. These types of rail aren't really necessary for smaller magnifications and so are just "extra weight" to carry on a hike.

I would say 100% of the people who use automated rails are photographing dead or inanimate objects, at greater 5x to 20x, in a studio so they don't have to deal with wind movement, etc.. My personal preference is photographing living creatures between 1:4 and 4:1. However, it is much more difficult to produce a deep stack when the animal is prone to move, wind movement, etc.



Sep 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM
Pavel
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


Thanks for that info. I am interested small objects like small antique bottles and such (for a neighbor who may start selling them) and studio type flower arrangements so they would not be macro initially but the question seems to fit best here, as I imagine that macro is where focus stacking experts are most likely to be found.

I had not heard of WeMacro - so that's a good lead. Thanks.



Sep 24, 2017 at 11:29 AM
mawyatt
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


Pavel wrote:
Thanks for that info. I am interested small objects like small antique bottles and such (for a neighbor who may start selling them) and studio type flower arrangements so they would not be macro initially but the question seems to fit best here, as I imagine that macro is where focus stacking experts are most likely to be found.

I had not heard of WeMacro - so that's a good lead. Thanks.


Hi Pavel,

There's lots of information on the Stackshot, Wemacro and MJKZZ focus rails over at photomacrograpgy site. The Stackshot is the Cadillac of the focus rail systems, the Wemacro & MJKZZ are lower cost versions, but lack the versatility of the Stackshot controller. Zerene is the stacking software by Rik Littlefield (moderator there) used by many folks, myself included. Zerene interfaces with the Stackshot controller and provides just about any focus stacking feature you could want and works with other rail systems by way of programmable rail parameters such as thread pitch, stepper motor step size, motor torque, rail speed & acceleration and so on. Very flexible system indeed!!

I have all three focus stacking systems (been doing this for chip imaging (ICs) since before 2012), and recently modified some surplus THK KR20 linear industrial rails to work with the Stackshot & Wemacro controllers. The result is about as good a focus stacking rail system as possible without spending a fortune!

However this is all for studio work, the field is different altogether.

Can Tuncer has produced some excellent work shown on DPR using the Wemacro system focus stacking peacock features. This speaks highly of Can's skill and the Wemacro focus rail system.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/6016272115/incredible-microscopic-close-ups-of-a-peacock-feather

More of Can's work here with the Wemacro.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1509372

Best,

Mike

Edited on Sep 24, 2017 at 01:23 PM · View previous versions



Sep 24, 2017 at 11:47 AM
mawyatt
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


Pavel,

Studio work isn't quite as easy as you might expect. At 10X the DoF is only 7 microns, even air movement inside due to the AC can and does cause problems. Vibration is a constant struggle and many use synchronized strobes for illumination to help "freeze" the subtle vibration effects. The chips I image sometimes have many (1000's) of tiny spherical solder balls less than 100um dia. which act as spherical mirrors. This requires absolute uniform illumination to reduce the optical artifacts in the solder balls, quadruple diffusion with dual light tents and multiple strobes (12) is often required.

Folks shooting butterfly wings have reported actual minute movements thought due to the optical flash which blurred the images. NASA confirmed the effect as a optical induced air boundary layer which can cause a transient slight pressure wave.

Special lenses are another very interesting subject area, from special microscope objectives, to lenses removed from high end scanners, to printing lenses, machine lenses, stacked lenses, reversed lenses and so on.

So many challenges await those venturing into these areas, but being a scientist/engineer (electronics & chip designer) I enjoy this and continue to try to improve.

I'm always amazed by the images folks produce in all fields, but especially the macro and micro world!!

Best,

Mike



Sep 24, 2017 at 12:22 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


Pavel wrote:
I wanted to ask if there is a fundamental difference between the results gotten for focus stacking using macro rails, such as Stackshots automated macro rail in contrast to having the focus plane moved via the lens?

Are the results from the two approaches fundamentally the same or are there pros and cons?


The purists say that using the lens helicoid changes the perspective.

Harold



Sep 27, 2017 at 01:23 PM
rw11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


in-body focus stacking may be what the OP wants

one reason I added a Panasonic m43 setup to my long use of Nikons was to get in-body focus stacking (GX85 and others + Leica macro lenses)

but now Nikon's D850 will do it



Sep 27, 2017 at 02:51 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


rw11 wrote:
in-body focus stacking may be what the OP wants


The same principle applies.

Harold



Sep 28, 2017 at 12:35 AM
Pavel
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


e6filmuser wrote:
The purists say that using the lens helicoid changes the perspective.

Harold


On what basis? That is what I'm interested in. What is the reason behind that idea?



Sep 28, 2017 at 07:22 PM
rw11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


e6filmuser wrote:
The same principle applies.

Harold


in body focus stacking is significantly easier to use and the results can be reviewed quickly and redone if needed

I reserve rails for > 1:1 efforts, not for tabletop use



Sep 29, 2017 at 01:23 PM
nugeny
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Macro Rails vs Lens focus stacking


JohnK007 wrote:
I pretty much do the same thing.

For all 1:1 macros, I use the Voigtländer 125mm f/2.5 Apo-Lanthar Macro, which has 630° of focus throw (compared to 150° to 270° of modern macro lenses with AF).

For higher, I use a simple RRS B150-B Focus Rail. This rail is only so-so, but it is good and adequate and has lasted me nearly 10 years. If I decide to get another rail, it will likely be a Novoflex.

As far as automated rails go, they're really only for very high-mag studio-stacks of dead arthropods (cells, or whatever), and aren't very practical for carrying out
...Show more

I am just starting macro. I see you use the RRS B150 focus rail. It looks very well done , solid, but it is just 2-way moving. I just bought a much cheeper one: the Neewer Pro 4-Way Macro Focusing Focus Rail . It just came . It cost me just $25.00 (yes twenty five $). As far as I can see, it is solid and working well. I mounted my D500 with lens on it and it is mounted on Arca Swiss ball head.
As I said, I am new here. Am I wrong getting this cheep 4 way focusing rail instead of the 2-way $345.00 RRS B150?



May 23, 2018 at 01:15 PM





FM Forums | Macro & Still Life | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.