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D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....
  
 
brian_sp
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


henry albert wrote:
Sh*t. Just saw that Tom Petty died. Damn, damn, damn.


what F**K...now THAT sucks





Oct 02, 2017 at 08:24 PM
reggieb
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


arbitrage wrote:
I'm disappointed in how muddy these dog photos are. I know we are looking at ISO 7200-10000 but these are non-cropped images and downsized for web. I can't imagine if I used one of these cropped into a bird at DX frame or even further. That said I don't really like using above ISO 4000 on the D500 but I thought that at FX frame without major cropping from the D850 I could use a stop higher.

Then again I don't know how C1 is doing NR or if there is a lot of jpeg compression on these files.

But I will
...Show more

Couple of things I'd say. First, with regards to noise reduction, I didn't do any. I don't use Capture One noise reduction, because that's the one thing that I don't think it does well. For the purpose of this comparison, I didn't want to mess with things.

With regards to a DX crop at above 4k ISO, I don't know if I have a great example. But let's see what I can do.

Here is a full view at ISO 5,600, followed by a pretty tight crop of the image. Bird in flight.

I'm probably not the most skilled when it comes to these, but it's something.







  NIKON D850    Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4E PF ED VR lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/3200s    5600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  NIKON D850    Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4E PF ED VR lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/3200s    5600 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 02, 2017 at 09:18 PM
la puffin
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


arbitrage wrote:
Reggieb, what AF mode did you use for these dog shots?


I'd love to know that too. If it was 3D, the primary AF square is pretty small and it's important to nail it on the intended focus point. Even though these are animals, turning on "3D Facial Recognition" (whatever it's called - cameras are downstairs) helps, and I've found setting the area mode to "Wide" works better than "Normal".

I haven't shot with the 300/4 P, is that known for being a fast tracking lens?



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:22 AM
Lance B
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


reggieb wrote:
Of all the images on that page of a dog running straight at the camera, they were each at a clearly much lower ISO. Obviously, my test was done in lower light, which isn't ideal, but it's what it was.

Agree, wasn't trying to cherry pick, a couple were off, as they would be with the D500. But I think that it performed fine given the ISO of the shots. But again, some of that is down to preference.


I agree. The lens was wide open and we are talking about very high ISO's which will have taken the edge right off them. Looking at the plane of focus on the grass, they look to be in the right focus plane.



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:23 AM
la puffin
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Lance B wrote:
I agree. The lens was wide open and we are talking about very high ISO's which will have taken the edge right off them. Looking at the plane of focus on the grass, they look to be in the right focus plane.


I've got to disagree. There's a shot or two that the reflections in the eyes are sharp.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:27 AM
CritterRacing
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


on the 2 bird shots you can clearly see your lens is front focusing.

sorry but all your images are making the new camera look bad. maybe start your own thread. sorry if i offended you.



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:10 AM
reggieb
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


la puffin wrote:
I'd love to know that too. If it was 3D, the primary AF square is pretty small and it's important to nail it on the intended focus point. Even though these are animals, turning on "3D Facial Recognition" (whatever it's called - cameras are downstairs) helps, and I've found setting the area mode to "Wide" works better than "Normal".

I haven't shot with the 300/4 P, is that known for being a fast tracking lens?


Group.

It's not super fast, it has been demonstrated that it moves more slowly than, say, the 70-200. But I have always found it to be fast enough. But again, I could have a different standard. I also feel the focus plain stayed mainly correct in those dog photos, and the softness is down to the high ISO. There might be some general front-focus, I should have tuned the lens, but I didn't. I used a test target, and it was dead on, but I only tested at one focus distance.

---------------------------------------------

CritterRacing wrote:
on the 2 bird shots you can clearly see your lens is front focusing.

sorry but all your images are making the new camera look bad. maybe start your own thread. sorry if i offended you.


Takes a lot more than that to offend me. I don't agree that it's front focused. I think you're looking at the grass to the left, but the owl is actually roughly in the same plain as that bush to the left. He had started just behind it on a perch and is flying forward off of that perch - moving forward, he jumped to the right and toward the camera, so he can't possibly be behind that point. The perspective is playing with you a bit there.

BUT, that one wasn't about focus any way. Arbitrage had commented that he didn't like the high ISO shots, and was wondering how much he could crop one. He mentioned that he doesn't go above ISO 4,000 on the D500, and I was looking for one a bit higher than that, and then cropped it in. I mentioned as well I didn't have a great example to do that with - but I'd provide what I can.

And I chose this thread because it's a discussion about a potential weakness of the camera, there is also a D850 thread for pretty pictures. I've posted in there, too, but note I didn't post any of these over there.



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:41 AM
multibit
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I find these threads very interesting. I'd love an FX camera to go with my D500 . My main choice was a D850 or D4s , being just a hobbyist I can't stretch to the D5 . I was hoping that the D850 AF to be at least as good as the D500 and also was really hoping the high ISO would be cleaner than the D500. I try to stick with ISO800 and below with the D500 but with the UK weather that's not always ideal. I was hoping to photograph peregrines that live around an old mill , it was heavily cloudy and after a few test shots I would have needed ISO6400 . Problem is the birds looked too noisy imo smothering the detail .
I have the 300mm f4 PF and the 300mm f2.8 VR1 , the focus speed and accuracy of the PF is pretty decent , it's not as quick as the f2.8 but quick enough to get most birds or dragonflies in flight



Oct 03, 2017 at 02:13 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I have been seeing posted images from the D850 at very low ISO's, and they look no better, or look worse, than those taken with a D500. And I am talking about images where the subject is not moving.

Either the D850 is not that great, or some photographers have pretty bad technique:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1379476/999999#lastmessage



Oct 03, 2017 at 02:43 PM
reggieb
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Imagemaster wrote:
I have been seeing posted images from the D850 at very low ISO's, and they look no better, or look worse, than those taken with a D500. And I am talking about images where the subject is not moving.

Either the D850 is not that great, or some photographers have pretty bad technique:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1379476/999999#lastmessage


I would definitely say that I don't have world beating technique.

I've been very happy with image quality from the D500, and think that the D850 has features that set it apart. High speed at high resolution, the full frame field of view, no crop 4k video, and I do think that the ISO performance is probably a bit better than the D500, though I think we often expect bigger jumps than might be reasonable given the fact that we are seeing diminishing returns to advancements in current sensor technology. That said, we're at a place where image quality is pretty great, and I really enjoyed the D850. I think I finally will upgrade my D3s.

EDIT: One thing to think about, too, when considering cameras is the shutter speed necessary to get a sharp image. If you have to bump from say 1/2000 with the D5 to 1/3200 with the D850, there is going to be a corresponding jump in the ISO. I think I'd be really happy with a D850 and a D5 together. But I don't think the budget (or my wife) would be very happy with me if I bought a D5 and a D850.



Oct 03, 2017 at 02:57 PM
 

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Imagemaster
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


reggieb wrote:
One thing to think about, too, when considering cameras is the shutter speed necessary to get a sharp image. If you have to bump from say 1/2000 with the D5 to 1/3200 with the D850, there is going to be a corresponding jump in the ISO.


I never did put any credence in that claim, since with the 5DSR, it did not require any higher shutter speeds than the 7D2. A bunch of croc as far as I am concerned.



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:35 PM
multibit
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Got to admit I've not been blown away so far , some nice images but after the hype I was expecting much better than the D500

Imagemaster wrote:
I have been seeing posted images from the D850 at very low ISO's, and they look no better, or look worse, than those taken with a D500. And I am talking about images where the subject is not moving.

Either the D850 is not that great, or some photographers have pretty bad technique:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1379476/999999#lastmessage




Oct 03, 2017 at 08:08 PM
snapsy
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Imagemaster wrote:
I never did put any credence in that claim, since with the 5DSR, it did not require any higher shutter speeds than the 7D2. A bunch of croc as far as I am concerned.


For focal-length limited shooting where the image will be cropped then that's correct, the 5DSR will not require a faster shutter speed. At equal framing however it does, at least if the goal is to yield a higher-resolution image than the 7DM2.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:25 PM
CritterRacing
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Here's the benifit for me. It's not out right image quality over the d500 it's the file size after cropping. I crop a lot for the type of photography I like. With my d500 I end up with 5 meg files. D850 I'm at 15 plus megs.

I print my images up to 22x17 and I love the added size of the files.

The big difference is going from the d810 to the 850.

multibit wrote:
Got to admit I've not been blown away so far , some nice images but after the hype I was expecting much better than the D500





Oct 03, 2017 at 09:35 PM
arbitrage
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


CritterRacing wrote:
Here's the benifit for me. It's not out right image quality over the d500 it's the file size after cropping. I crop a lot for the type of photography I like. With my d500 I end up with 5 meg files. D850 I'm at 15 plus megs.

I print my images up to 22x17 and I love the added size of the files.

The big difference is going from the d810 to the 850.



I'm not quite following this.... would't you have to be shooting with either a longer lens or getting closer to your subject for you to end up with bigger files with more pixels for printing. If that is the case why not use the longer lens and/or get closer with the D500?

For my type of reach limited, lots of cropping bird photography I don't see much benefit in the D850. The benefit I do see would be times that I do get closer than 500mm on DX and instead of zooming back could start using the extra pixels. Also I've been shooting a lot of small birds in flight and occasionally get a nice sharp bird near the edge of the D500 frame but with a clipped wing....the D850 would not have clipped the wings. I'm just not sure if I will take advantage of the extra pixels enough to warrant the initial cost of camera and battery grip (because I for sure want 9FPS).



Oct 03, 2017 at 10:31 PM
T-O Shooter
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


multibit wrote:
Got to admit I've not been blown away so far , some nice images but after the hype I was expecting much better than the D500



Same here. It's going to take a lot more than I've seen so far before I throw any money at a D850. Maybe it's the level of the photographer behind the images I've seen, maybe it's the PP, but I can throw up almost anything from the D810 or D4s and be more impressed.
Time will tell.



Oct 03, 2017 at 10:58 PM
charles.K
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I have been watching this thread and I am not understanding why some of the shots are not sharper. I have had the D850 since its release and I have been taken aback by its sharpness and rendering with the RAW files but I am not comparing to the D500 and I am using different lenses so my experience will be different. I am comparing to my previous D810 and D750. I have a found a large difference coming from the D810 in IQ, rendering, color depth and of course AF accuracy and speed.

I have a feeling the weak link maybe the 200-500 on the D850 with the settings/calibrations. The 200-500 may require a FW update. I have had to re-calibrate all my lenses carefully and I still find I have to tweak them the get the best for portraits/functions/landscapes. My intent is not for fast action/sports or BIF so I will have different experiences compared to many here



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:02 PM
Steve Perry
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


charles.K wrote:
I have been watching this thread and I am not understanding why some of the shots are not sharper. I have had the D850 since its release and I have been taken aback by its sharpness and rendering with the RAW files but I am not comparing to the D500 and I am using different lenses so my experience will be different. I am comparing to my previous D810 and D750. I have a found a large difference coming from the D810 in IQ, rendering, color depth and of course AF accuracy and speed.

I have a feeling the weak link
...Show more

I've always liked my primes over the 200-500, and had mostly been using those. I did take out my 200-500 this morning and I'm not sure if I was just having a bad day or something, but my hit rate was lower (and I was just shooting deer). I have noticed that with care the 1.2X crop area seems to be the "safer" zone for the 200-500. It does lose acuity at this pixel density as you fall outside the DX image area, although a little unsharp mask can make the results acceptable.

Here's a sharp action shot from the D850, 300 PF + 1.4TC. These little sanderlings fly fast and are between the size of a robin and a sparrow, so they aren't the easiest subject (they are almost like shooting songbirds in flight). However, even with the TC, I was able to get a few sharp ones with the D850 (actually, many of the images were sharp, just not sharp on the eye - more my fault than the camera). Just a quick ACR output:








  NIKON D850    300.0 mm f/4.0 lens    420mm    f/5.6    1/4000s    1100 ISO    +0.7 EV  




Oct 03, 2017 at 11:35 PM
charles.K
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Steve Perry wrote:
I've always liked my primes over the 200-500, and had mostly been using those. I did take out my 200-500 this morning and I'm not sure if I was just having a bad day or something, but my hit rate was lower (and I was just shooting deer). I have noticed that with care the 1.2X crop area seems to be the "safer" zone for the 200-500. It does lose acuity at this pixel density as you fall outside the DX image area, although a little unsharp mask can make the results acceptable.

Here's a sharp action shot from
...Show more

Great shot Steve I have been finding the sharpening workflow for the D850 RAW files is quite different compared to my D810. I am not convinced yet that I have the optimum work flow for sharpening. A lot still to test and learn.




Oct 04, 2017 at 01:45 AM
Laslo Varadi
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


charles.K wrote:
I have been watching this thread and I am not understanding why some of the shots are not sharper. I have had the D850 since its release and I have been taken aback by its sharpness and rendering with the RAW files but I am not comparing to the D500 and I am using different lenses so my experience will be different. I am comparing to my previous D810 and D750. I have a found a large difference coming from the D810 in IQ, rendering, color depth and of course AF accuracy and speed.

I have a feeling the weak link
...Show more

Just a comment on the Nikon 200-500. I calibrated my 200-500 lens using Lens Align and took some photos at ISO 1600. Subjects were mostly or completely in the shade. They were shot in RAW and converted to JPG with WB adjustment and slight sharpening. No noise reduction. I did have one exciting moment when a Canadian goose took off about 25-50 ft. in front of me. Unfortunately it was a blur, but probably more my lack of ability shooting BIF,







  NIKON D850    200.0-500.0 mm f/5.6 lens    500mm    f/5.6    1/500s    1600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  NIKON D850    200.0-500.0 mm f/5.6 lens    500mm    f/5.6    1/800s    1600 ISO    0.0 EV  






  NIKON D850    200.0-500.0 mm f/5.6 lens    340mm    f/5.6    1/320s    1600 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 04, 2017 at 06:42 PM
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