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D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....
  
 
arbitrage
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I saw this video comparing the AF between the two cameras. The D850 did not perform all that well compared to the D5. Nikon claims everything is equal between these two cameras in the AF department. Could it be the D5's bigger battery? Or is the D5 just better? Or is this test somewhat flawed?

Of note is it seems to just be testing in 3D mode. Can a D5 shooter confirm that the D5 doesn't show the centre dot in the AF point like the D500 and D850 show in 3D mode? I was wondering if the D5 was being shot in a different mode but maybe it just looks different in the D5.

Personally I wouldn't rely on 3D for this type of work anyways and if I had the cameras myself would run a test by tracking myself in Group AF.

Still an interesting result. I have heard it claimed in the past by D5/D500 shooters that the D5 was better despite Nikon's claims.




Sep 23, 2017 at 09:49 PM
CritterRacing
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Well i do like Matt's videos and opinions. At 7 frames the d5 is not using all its computing power where as the d850 is maxed out plus moving the giant files around.

i agree about using group since it seems to be the go to focus mode.

at one point shes running at the cameras at 1/500's, so of course you wont have perfect focus with such huge files at that shutter speed.

id say slightly flawed test.

Aldo



Sep 23, 2017 at 10:09 PM
joefoo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


If the D850 can do 9fps, how can it be maxed out at 7? The D5 should focus better in a burst due to shorter mirror blackout time, this is the expected result. It has been reported by several different people, no surprise.


Sep 23, 2017 at 10:35 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


joefoo wrote:
If the D850 can do 9fps, how can it be maxed out at 7?


It is maxed out for the EN-EL15a battery. It will only do 9fps with the battery grip and the EN-EL18b battery.

The D5 should focus better in a burst due to shorter mirror blackout time, this is the expected result. It has been reported by several different people, no surprise.

I wonder how well the D850 will AF when using the battery grip and EN-EL18b battery. After all, in the brochure, it states:
"The D850ís powerful 153-point AF system ó the same acclaimed technology used in the
flagship D5 "

and:
"Accurate focusing is crucial to large-pixel-count images. The D850 comes equipped
with the same powerful 153-point AF system as the flagship D5 ó a technology widely
praised by editorial sports photographers. The 153 densely packed focus points (55
selectable) provide over 130% of the D810ís frame coverage, while 99 cross sensors
with powerful detection are optimally distributed. The AF system makes it possible to
achieve pinpoint focus on a small area such as an athleteís eye, but is also designed
to immediately acquire fast, often random movements and track them tenaciously.
The D850 also comes with the same AF lock-on adjustment menu as the D5, helping
to focus more accurately on subjects moving toward the camera. Furthermore, the
central point functions at -4 EV* and all other focus points at -3 EV*, thanks to the
Multi-CAM 20K autofocus sensor module, which was developed to keep noise to an
absolute minimum, allowing for accurate AF in challenging light. "

and:
"Like the D5, the D850 employs a dedicated AF engine. Working
in parallel with the sequence control microcomputer, it achieves
simultaneous rangefinding at all 153 focus points, which contributes
to fast, accurate focusing. As a result, when shooting an athlete
portrait in auto-area AF, for example, it eliminates the need to select
focus points each time you change your composition, contributing
to a more efficient workflow."






Sep 24, 2017 at 12:23 AM
Blakehfreeman
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I own the same car that races the circuit... the version of the Z4 I drive retails for $74,000... the version that races retails for $400,000. many of the parts are the same... but I'm fairly certain mine doesn't do the quarter mile in the same time.

There are so many variables in the building of a camera that I would be suprised if they did focus the same. I've owned a D3 alongside a D700 "that had the same focus speed"... and trust me, they didn't. I also owned an F5 alongside an F100, same story.


Lance B wrote:
It is maxed out for the EN-EL15a battery. It will only do 9fps with the battery grip and the EN-EL18b battery.

I wonder how well the D850 will AF when using the battery grip and EN-EL18b battery. After all, in the brochure, it states:
"The D850ís powerful 153-point AF system ó the same acclaimed technology used in the
flagship D5 "

and:
"Accurate focusing is crucial to large-pixel-count images. The D850 comes equipped
with the same powerful 153-point AF system as the flagship D5 ó a technology widely
praised by editorial sports photographers. The 153 densely packed focus points (55
selectable) provide over 130% of the D810ís
...Show more



Sep 24, 2017 at 12:31 AM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


A few thoughts...

I've been using the D850 for a couple weeks now and with my normal AF modes (D9, Group, Single point), I'm having a tough time telling them apart from an AF performance standpoint. I seem to be getting shot after shot of tack sharp action images with the D850. My keeper rate seems roughly the same as with the D5 and it just seems to "get the shot" very consistently.

I haven't compared them side by side, however I had just finished a trip with the D5 where I took over 8000 pics, so it's AF performance was fresh in my mind and it just seems like - with proper handling and technique - the D850 is a very close match. (In the past, the pro bodies always did hold an edge - both with the D3 and D4, however, the D5 and D500 are much closer, and with the dedicated AF module in the D850, I would think it would be even closer to the D5's performance.)

Also, as Aldo points out, you have to take into consideration the 46MP sensor. The higher res sensor will show flaws that the 21MP D5 sensor doesn't have the resolution to reveal. You need more shutter speed with the D850 in an action scenario to take full advantage of the sensor. I was shooting some sandhill cranes last week and I one of them was preening, I had my SS set to 1/800th - pretty much what I would use with the D5, but most of the images were soft (face / eye). Out of curiosity, I downsampled them to D5 size to sort of "equalize" the technique I was using between the two cameras. Sure enough, once downsized the shot looked perfectly fine.

Finally, I'm not sure shooting everything with 3D is the right course of action here either. 3D does tax the AF system far more than dynamic, single point or even Group AF. It also tends to be a bIt more unpredictable IMO. So, I may try to do a test with one of those other modes and see if the D5 is noticeably better.



Sep 24, 2017 at 12:40 AM
JohnK007
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Steve Perry wrote:
A few thoughts...

I've been using the D850 for a couple weeks now and with my normal AF modes (D9, Group, Single point), I'm having a tough time telling them apart from an AF performance standpoint. I seem to be getting shot after shot of tack sharp action images with the D850. My keeper rate seems roughly the same as with the D5 and it just seems to "get the shot" very consistently.

I haven't compared them side by side, however I had just finished a trip with the D5 where I took over 8000 pics, so it's AF performance
...Show more

Great response; really enjoy your thoughtful (information-saturated) videos.



Sep 24, 2017 at 12:46 AM
mach250
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


they're not going to do a financial failure repeat from when the D700 was actually a smaller D3, they lost too much money when people realized this. I doubt that the D850 and D5 are identical as everyone is claiming.


Sep 24, 2017 at 01:30 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Steve Perry wrote:
A few thoughts...

I've been using the D850 for a couple weeks now and with my normal AF modes (D9, Group, Single point), I'm having a tough time telling them apart from an AF performance standpoint. I seem to be getting shot after shot of tack sharp action images with the D850. My keeper rate seems roughly the same as with the D5 and it just seems to "get the shot" very consistently.

I haven't compared them side by side, however I had just finished a trip with the D5 where I took over 8000 pics, so it's AF performance
...Show more

Thanks Steve. That is all I needed to hear. I really didn't think the testing in Matt's video looked all that good (his methodology not the results). I agree with testing the other modes or at least actively moving the camera to track like most people do in a normal real world situation.

Do you know if the D5 doesn't show the dot inside the AF point when in 3D mode? That difference in the video had me curious. My D500 shows the dot and the D850 showed it in Matt's video but not the D5.



Sep 24, 2017 at 01:31 AM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


arbitrage wrote:
Thanks Steve. That is all I needed to hear. I really didn't think the testing in Matt's video looked all that good (his methodology not the results). I agree with testing the other modes or at least actively moving the camera to track like most people do in a normal real world situation.

Do you know if the D5 doesn't show the dot inside the AF point when in 3D mode? That difference in the video had me curious. My D500 shows the dot and the D850 showed it in Matt's video but not the D5.


I don't have my D5 with me (traveling) and I seldom use 3D - but IIRC it does NOT have the dot.



Sep 24, 2017 at 01:49 AM
 

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charles.K
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Steve Perry wrote:
A few thoughts...

I've been using the D850 for a couple weeks now and with my normal AF modes (D9, Group, Single point), I'm having a tough time telling them apart from an AF performance standpoint. I seem to be getting shot after shot of tack sharp action images with the D850. My keeper rate seems roughly the same as with the D5 and it just seems to "get the shot" very consistently.

I haven't compared them side by side, however I had just finished a trip with the D5 where I took over 8000 pics, so it's AF performance
...Show more

Thank you very much Steve Often there is so much information on the web it is hard to differentiate the facts. I do know for that the AF on the D850 is much better than my D810 an D750 and particularly in lower light which is quite a feat for 46MP FF camera. The other fact is that my Art series lenses now seem to have been turbo charged in AF speed and accuracy. The opinions of the Art lenses may differ within the forums but it is great to have options.



Sep 24, 2017 at 02:00 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


arbitrage wrote:
Thanks Steve. That is all I needed to hear. I really didn't think the testing in Matt's video looked all that good (his methodology not the results). I agree with testing the other modes or at least actively moving the camera to track like most people do in a normal real world situation.

Do you know if the D5 doesn't show the dot inside the AF point when in 3D mode? That difference in the video had me curious. My D500 shows the dot and the D850 showed it in Matt's video but not the D5.


The D850 does have the dot within square in 3D mode.



Sep 24, 2017 at 02:01 AM
Todd
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Neat.... but it goes to show that the D850 is NOT a sports camera despite what Nikon and sports photographers said it was (I think Nikon mentioned that), but Iím sure the 850 will do well with slower subjects. I think the D850 was designed for some sports, otherwise they would not have put the same focus system in it. However I think itís primary use is going to be landscape and studio/outdoor photography.


Sep 24, 2017 at 02:15 AM
pipspeak
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Lance B wrote:
I wonder how well the D850 will AF when using the battery grip and EN-EL18b battery. After all, in the brochure, it states:
"The D850ís powerful 153-point AF system ó the same acclaimed technology used in the
flagship D5 "

and:
"Accurate focusing is crucial to large-pixel-count images. The D850 comes equipped
with the same powerful 153-point AF system as the flagship D5 ó a technology widely
praised by editorial sports photographers. The 153 densely packed focus points (55
selectable) provide over 130% of the D810ís frame coverage, while 99 cross sensors
with powerful detection are optimally distributed. The AF system makes it possible to
achieve pinpoint focus
...Show more

But read between the lines and what it does not say is that the AF system *performs* the same as the D5's. It might well use the same underlying technology, AF array etc., but does the D850 have the same processing power available for the AF system as the D5? That would explain a difference in real-life performance.




Sep 24, 2017 at 02:28 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


I tried them both one after another, not for as long as I'd like, but the AF is exactly the same in my opinion. Even those who seem to think there is a difference between D5 and D500 AF have been making the comment that the D850 and D5 AF is the same. AF is notoriously hard to evaluate as well - especially between bodies where the entire AF system is the same. We are lucky that we even get to discuss possible minute differences between the AF in a body half the price of a D5 - that is not something you typically get.


Sep 24, 2017 at 03:37 AM
joefoo
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Lance B wrote:
It is maxed out for the EN-EL15a battery. It will only do 9fps with the battery grip and the EN-EL18b battery.

I was responding to a comment about the D850's computing power. The added voltage won't make a difference there, it's used to drive the shutter/mirror mechanism faster. If there is a difference in the AF performance of the D850 and the D5, mirror blackout time would explain it. It seems for most people it is not noticeable and it takes a particularly unusual test to exaggerate the difference between them. Great news.



Sep 24, 2017 at 05:45 AM
morris
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Her movement is not the same speed in each pass. The test should be done with both cameras shooting at the same time and placed as close to each other as possible. Then swap positions and do it again. Multiple passes in each setup.

3D tracking did exactly what is should have on both cameras. It was set to track her face and her face disappeared when she turned her back. What is the camera supposed to do? It should wait X delay and then search for focus. The test proves that 3D tracking works when the tracked target is in frame and that the camera will find focus again if the subject disappears. Both cameras operated properly.

I believe this is a case of RTFM

Morris




Sep 24, 2017 at 01:38 PM
sk66
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


arbitrage wrote:
Do you know if the D5 doesn't show the dot inside the AF point when in 3D mode? That difference in the video had me curious. My D500 shows the dot and the D850 showed it in Matt's video but not the D5.


My D5 shows the current AF point in use in 3D and Auto... I can't figure out how to turn it off...



Sep 24, 2017 at 02:43 PM
henry albert
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


CritterRacing wrote:
i agree about using group since it seems to be the go to focus mode.



I never use group. It's very good at what it does, but what it does is focus on the closest object in the box. There are time when that's good. For me, though, those times are rare. I stick with dynamic or single point.



Sep 24, 2017 at 02:50 PM
Spectro
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D850 vs D5 AF Comparison....


Group is fantastic if you know its limitations (as mentioned above picking up near objects in the frame). For me it's about acquisition. D500 and D5 was significantly faster than D4s. I'm replacing D500 and D810 with D850 and grip. I expect acquisition to be about the same as D500. I just placed my NPS order a couple weeks ago so don't expect to receive it to test for a bit yet.


Sep 24, 2017 at 04:37 PM
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