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Archive 2017 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???

  
 
millsart
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Jeff Kott wrote:
There's clearly no perfect solution. I handled an RX10iii and it's a chunk, not what I have in mind for a carry every where camera. I know that it's compact for a 600mm FF equivalent, but 400 would be plenty for me. That's what's holding me back from getting an RX10iv.

I picked up an FE 70-200 F4 yesterday and it's not crazy big or heavy, especially when paired with an A6000 series camera. Too bad, but it looks like the Sony teleconverters don't work with that lens. Otherwise that would be a better solution for me.



Its a bit of a beast for sure (though the same can be said for the D850 and 105 f1.4 combo which I've come to love lol) but I think the size/weight of the mk3/4 can't really be avoided, unless A) it had less range, B) it had a smaller sensor, or C) it had a slower lens.

I think if it was something like F6.7 on the long end, it could certainly of kept the reach but would of suffered in terms of ISO performance, and perhaps even AF with reduced light input for the PDAF. Certainly could of done a 2/3" sensor like Fuji did for a few years, and while bigger than the typical bridge, maybe again would of been too much of a step backwards, as the 1" size is barely an acceptable compromise for many. Finally if it was only say 350mm equiv, then it wouldn't make much sense compared to the lot of 200mm+ focal length options for APS-C et al., which would have the edge in terms of IQ.

I think 1" sensor, 600mm equiv', and a semi "fast" f4, is only real acceptable overall compromise if they want a competitive camera.

I don't know if I'd consider it a carry everywhere camera though. Certainly won't be for me. My iPhone 8 plus (and a Moment 18mm equiv FoV. lens in my wife's purse) are about all the more I'm willing to carry around everywhere, and the results are quite good. I tried the lot of Ricoh GR, Lumix GM1 and GM5, X100, X70, right up to the Leica Q, and honestly all the options proved to be a bit of a bother more times than the instances where I was glad I had them.

RX10 was purchased to fulfill the times when I'm purposely willing to carry a camera, yet not going specifically for the intention of serious photography. Trip to the zoo with the family for example, or a hike (mainly for exercise) in a wildlife preserve where maybe you'll come across something worth shooting, yet, don't plan to camp out in a hide for 2 hours waiting for the perfect shot with a serious wildlife rig.

One thing I've learned over the years though is that there is no ideal camera, or even cameras. No matter what you've got, you'll miss something, wish you had more, wish you had less.

iPhone and a D805 or A9... leaves too much in between. iPhone and a XT2, too much, or too little. etc etc.

I'll keep trying to find the "best" compromise though between as much gear as the budget allows, what my shooting needs require, and what the GAS kicks in for. Or, I'll hit the lotto, and then I'll have a room stocked with nothing but camera gear

Compacts, Sigma Merril's which I'll use once a year, a full Leica M system, a full Nikon DSLR kit with superteles, Fuji XT2 and all the X glass, Sony A7rIII and a A9 and all the FE glass, and likely a RX10 mkIV..... only issue will be finding the time to shoot everything lol



Nov 19, 2017 at 10:57 PM
MedicineMan404
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Itsed65 wrote:
It's almost cheating with this thing. I realize it's not perfect for everyone, but for a BIF camera that doesn't weigh a ton or cost over 10K for body and lens, it's very hard to beat. None of my Canon gear would have acquired the duck against that background and held it for ten shots.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4538/38500793382_78f8119d36_b.jpg
Shadow on the Wing by lennycarl08, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4524/38476801206_4ee958e55f_b.jpg
Immature Kite by lennycarl08, on Flickr


Funny that D5 and 1DXii owners would never accept that the 10iv can out AF-track them. I'm guessing on the D5 but knowing on the 1DXii having shot one for almost two years. It is a wonderfully strange beastie Sony has granted us.



Nov 20, 2017 at 02:27 AM
millsart
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???




MedicineMan404 wrote:
Funny that D5 and 1DXii owners would never accept that the 10iv can out AF-track them. I'm guessing on the D5 but knowing on the 1DXii having shot one for almost two years. It is a wonderfully strange beastie Sony has granted us.



You’ve (and “they”) got to remember though that there is a massive DOF difference favoring the RX. F4 on the RX is like f11 on a 600mm FF lens. Shoot at f11 with a 600mm lens with a D5 and you’ll have a far better “in focus” ratio that if you shot wide open.

The tech certainly favors getting away from a mirror though, as having the blackout to the AF module doesn’t do the dslr any favors.

This was pretty clear when the Nikon v1 came out years ago and out tracked the dslr back the too (also had smaller cx sensor)

It’s amazing the dslr works as well as it does, given a lot of technical disadvantages. Also kind of amazing it’s taken Mirrorless til 2017 with the a9 and RX10 to have a true contender for af-c tracking vs a dslr.

The Nikon v1 showed what was possible and everyone dropped the ball for years with horrible af tracking, even with PDAF, on cameras like the a7rII, Fuji xt1 etc. Not unusable by any means, but not dslr standard either.

Finally enter the A9 (and RX10) and it can be said the dslr has at the very least met its equal, if not superior, when you take frame rates, blackout free shooting etc into the mix

RX10 V surely will have a blackout free EVF I’d wager too......



Nov 20, 2017 at 07:53 AM
Liquidstone
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Nearly two months after becoming available in some parts of the world, I still can't find a store in our islands that has the RX10 MIV in stock.


Nov 20, 2017 at 08:21 AM
MedicineMan404
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Romy that's no good. Sounds like you need to hop in a jet and fly to somewhere and pick 2 of them up!

Millsart of all the advances I still think zebras right there in the EVF is probably the greatest gift of mirrorless=no excuse to blow anything out.

Now on the a9 and RX10iv I look at the just announced Panasonic which has two (2) UHS-II slots and grimace (again) at Sony.

Which reminds me of what was another huge benefit to the Sonys-but no more, the apps. Why in heaven's name do I now have to carry an external intevalometer ??

Well I'm not to slam DSLRs. The 7Dii and 1DXii gave me hundreds and hundreds of keepers. It was just time for a change due to weight and age. I have no regrets.



Nov 20, 2017 at 07:45 PM
traveler
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


I guess if one posts a larger image on this site it gets yanked. Mine did......oh well


Nov 20, 2017 at 07:54 PM
wsalopek
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


millsart wrote:
What I mean by that is when I'd take, say the Em1.2 and the 100-400, it would be great for shooting more distant subjects, or close-ups of closer subjects, BUT, starting at 200mm equiv means there are a lot of wider shots your missing, so you either accept your just taking shots of birds and such, or you carry another wider lens to pair with it, if not two lenses.


I feel the pain. -- how to be simple/light, but still satisfy the (my) anal need for highest possible IQ.

The RX-10 is not small. I was thinking I'd get rid of my MFT system and replace it with the RX-10, but the MFT system (in my case a Panasonic G7), with it's lighter weight (with a 14-140), touchscreen, great grip and dual dials, and better IQ with faster lenses in low light, has given me pause.

I think the RX10 is made for someone who needs 300-600mm, in a lighter weight setup than APS-C or FF. Of course the awesome AF in the IV doesn't hurt at all.

But OK...for those of us trying to keep the sensor size as large as possible...

I see two options:

1) A6300/MC-11/100-400 with an RX100 in my pants pocket for focal lengths below 150mm-ish.

or

2) MFT with a 100-300/400 with an RX100, again, in my pocket.

It's the "pocket" thinng that makes this work...it's SO easy, relatively speaking, to carry an RX100...even better than a GM1/5, with it's bigger/slower, kit lens.

I've come to view my RX10 as a replacement for my Sigma 150-600/D600...other than that, I like the MFT or APS-C options with an RX100 in my pocket, as a viable, and sometimes cheaper alternative, while still being a lot easier to carry than a FF setup.

All that said...

I'm still wrapping my head around the RX-10 and using it for more than just 300-600mm scenarios...but I just can't see using it as a travel camera..too big, and too much potential IQ loss over MFT in lower-light situations...at least that's my (perhaps mostly unfounded) fear.

--

Bill





Nov 21, 2017 at 12:38 PM
millsart
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


I’ve owned all the RX100 models over the years and while a great camera with some amazing features, the size/weight has grown a fair bit. The RX100 V was heavy enough I didn’t reallly like carrying it in my pocket, just too bulky and heavy, not to mention what to do with my keys and iPhone etc. Even when a camera is pocketable, what does one do with things like keys? Can’t share a pocket and risk scratching the lcd screen, but also don’t want them in the cell phone pocket. I’ve also come to worry about things like pocket link getting into the camera and carried my Ricoh GR in a plastic baggie. Of course was a pain to get the camera in/out for each shot then.

I’ve basically given up on the pocket camera and just got a new smartphone with dual lenses. At web size at least, I often can’t tell the difference beteeen a real 50mm portrait and the simulated “bokeh” effect of the dual lens phone camera. I can also do effortless sweep panos, slow motion video, and with my moment lens I have an 18mm and fisheye equiv. as well. Plus far bigger screen, in depth editing tools etc, without needing an extra camera in my pocket. I’ve come to feel I can do far more, and easier, with a good phone, than I could with a gm1, RX100 etc, even though those do have an edge in IQ. The advantage though isn’t huge, unless you do something like put a nocticron on the gm1, but then your no longer pocket sized.

The versatile, easy to use, always with you, pocket camera I’ve spent forever trying to find really proved to be no camera at all, but rather just an updated version of my phone



Nov 21, 2017 at 02:21 PM
wsalopek
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Yep...the cellphone...with it's sundry other advantages. I hear ya.

To address the pocketablity of an RX100, if I am wearing pants with small/tight pockets, etc, I sometimes wear a small fanny pack or some other slim/small packy thing (or cargo shorts, or a jacket)...small enough that I don't feel like I'm carrying much...big enough for a couple extras.

Anyway...onward...

--

Bill




Nov 21, 2017 at 02:49 PM
lightskyland
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


too much potential IQ loss over MFT in lower-light situations

Sensor area is less than a stop less, so it's comparable to the IQ loss of MFT vs. APS-C, or half the IQ loss of MFT vs. FF, assuming lenses of the same speed.



Nov 21, 2017 at 03:59 PM
wsalopek
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


lightskyland wrote:
Sensor area is less than a stop less, so it's comparable to the IQ loss of MFT vs. APS-C, or half the IQ loss of MFT vs. FF, assuming lenses of the same speed.


Right...yep. I was more talking about the ability to use an F1.4/1.7, etc lens on the MFT camera when "needed"...should have made that more clear.

When I'm using the G7 and the 3.5-5.6 14-140 lens, I'd expect to see little if any IQ difference.
--

Bill






Nov 21, 2017 at 04:31 PM
nandadevieast
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Looks like RX104 is calling me
Never help people decide on gear.



Dec 04, 2017 at 02:58 PM
wsalopek
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Just today I noticed my III (which I've owned for about a month) producing a much more detailed image at F5.6 vs F4 (at 600mm,100 iso) ... Have to verify what I am seeing when I get home to my desktop PC.

Of course I know it's not uncommon for a lens to sharpen up, etc stopped down... But I was thinking Zeiss, etc, in this case might be immune.

Anyway, just wondering what others may have observed. And if the IV lens is identical to the III?

Thanks.

Bill



Dec 09, 2017 at 06:55 PM
lightskyland
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


I'm not seeing any sharpness difference at f/4 vs. f/5.6. Anything narrower is starting to see diffraction softness though.


Dec 09, 2017 at 09:10 PM
wsalopek
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Ok. Thanks. I'll post a couple comparison pics in the next couple days. Traveling right now.


Dec 10, 2017 at 10:40 PM
nandadevieast
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


So how do you track? AFC and which focus area mode? How do you focus on a birds eye and keep it in focus as it flies?


Dec 11, 2017 at 11:28 PM
Itsed65
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


The latest Lightroom update includes color spaces for the MK IV versus just "beta".


Dec 12, 2017 at 02:37 PM
bclaff_too
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


Jeff Kott wrote:
FWIW, DXO gives the sensor in the RX10iii a score of 70 and the OMD Mark ii a score of 73.

Color depth and DR are almost the same, but the OMD has the edge in higher ISO performance. I interpret that to mean the sensors are pretty close at low ISO's.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-Cybershot-DSC-RX10-III-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-II___1084_1006



I'm missing measurements at PhotonsToPhotos for several of the RX cameras including the RX10 III and RX10 IV.
(If it isn't in the above chart, then I don't have measurements.)
I'd love to hear from anyone willing to help out.

Edited on Dec 12, 2017 at 04:16 PM · View previous versions



Dec 12, 2017 at 03:09 PM
lightskyland
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


bclaff_too wrote:
I'm missing measurements at PhotonsToPhotos/Charts/PDR.htm for several of the RX cameras including the RX10 III and RX10 IV.
(If it isn't in the above chart, then I don't have measurements.)
I'd love to hear from anyone willing to help out.


I don't have the 3 anymore, but I do have the 4.

What do you need me to send you?

Thanks




Dec 12, 2017 at 03:43 PM
nandadevieast
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · RX10 mk IV Who's in ???


I have got mine. Impressions:
Lens is sharp, even at tele. Thats the first thing i checked.
Its possible to use 1/50 at 600mm (static shots). Maybe even slower but i have not tried yet. This can be because of steady shot and also leaf shutter (the canera has shutter in the lens)
Build wuality is decent but not great.
Soul is better than the body They should rework the body and make it like a mid range DSLR in terms of controls.
The dial on the back is so small, neither here nor there. The multi selector ring is small...it should be like a73 at this orice.
Focus is great.

Couple of questions:
There is a switch to select S A C DMF and M focus modes. But I couldn’t find them anywhere inside the menu??
In flexible spot mode where you can move the focus points around...how do you move them around?? Is there an easy way?
Maybe this is a Sony thing but i cant see the entire (lit up) focus point cluster...like you see on other cameras, where you can just move around and select them.




Dec 13, 2017 at 02:40 PM
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