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Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the b...
  
 
kevindar
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


got my a7rII about a month ago. Sold my 5d3 yesterday. Its the first time I am without a canon full frame in 10 years. still have about 10 canon lenses, and no native mount full frame sony. have some E mount sony fro my a6300, that I have been using on a7rII for 4K vidoo, since the video is cropped any way.

Using canon with metabones. Generally does well for me with my canon lenses. Using my 16-35 f4 IS and 24-70 2.8 II for landscape. both are very sharp.

Debating on whether I should switch to a few sony native prime lenses, or remain on the fence.
The quality of sony lenses are certainly good, its just that the 55 1.8 lens, even used at 700 dollars seems so expensive. I have my 85 L II, and deciding if I want to give that up for a native mount 1.8. Also my longer zooms such as 70-200 2.8lII does not work as nicely with adapter, but the sony version of that and the 100-400 are pretty expensive

And then you hear about quality control concerns with a lot of Sony lenses.

So for those with who used to be or are in part still canon shooters, what are your thoughts? who are the complete converts who are happy? who are the dual system people, and why?

I still have my canon 80D



Sep 23, 2017 at 03:40 AM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


After having Canon equipment for a long time, I use Sony pretty much exclusively now; I still have a 5DSR as an emergency backup, but I'll sell it after the A7RIII comes out (the A7RII will then become the backup).

I have a big mix of lenses and unlike some, I don't mind using adapters at all. A majority of my lenses are Canon mount, which I use with a Metabones IV and a Sigma adapter (the latter is better for ultrawides).

You could say I'm rather a special case since I don't use autofocus and much prefer actual manual lenses. Most of my Canon mount lenses are Zeiss, with a few Canon in the mix when there is no Zeiss equivalent. I have a smaller number of E-mount lenses; these are all manual Zeiss and Voigtlander. I have no Sony branded lenses; formerly I had a few, but disliked and sold them. I won't get more since I really dislike focus-by-wire for manual focus. You're right that it's something of a lottery getting many Sony lenses well centered.

I also have a variety of older lenses of various mounts, which I use with adapters; other than lack of EXIF, I'm very happy with using them.




Sep 23, 2017 at 03:57 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


Well, Kevin, I'd say don't be too hasty. I've tried some of the native AF Sony lenses, and other than being a little smaller and a little more convenient to use, for the most part I still like my Canon lenses via the Sigma on a7R2 (don't work so well on a7R). And they still work fantastic on my Canon bodies.

I still have 5DsR as my primary Canon body, and it is still my top resolution camera. (I saw a nice 5Ds here on B&S for around $2k, and that looked really appealing -- if I needed it.) I don't. I still have my 1Ds3 and can't imaging selling it. Same goes for the 1D3 -- just can't sell it for enough to make up for the pleasure of owning it and occasionally putting it through its paces.

Unlike you, I sold my crop 60D and have no plans to replace that. It's FF for me, except for little convenience cameras!

I've got a while to wait before I can afford a used a7R3 (first they have to be made, then get old enough to get a low used price), or a super-duper 5DsR2 with much higher MP. I've obviously got a wait ahead of me, and plenty of time to liquidate lenses and "stuff".

That said, I seldom shoot the Canon bodies, but do when I want fast and accurate AF, especially with flash.

Same deal with Nikon for me -- I can't imagine selling the D800e unless it were to buy a used D810 or the new model.

I like them all! It's just that I mainly shoot the Sony FF's now.



Sep 23, 2017 at 05:16 AM
trogdon
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I'm not in the canon camp, but I do run a dual mount in Sony A mount. The lenses I own there are much cheaper than the E mount equivalents (Samyang 24mm f1.4, Sigma 35mm f1.4, Sony 24-70mm f2.8, Sony 50mm f2.8 macro, and Sony 135mm f1.8). I keep the old a850 around because it works great with the lenses, certainly better than the LA-EA4 on the a7r would. For me I just don't get as much use out of that equipment as I do my smaller E mount lenses, but at the same time I wouldn't want to let them go. So for now, dual systems for me!


Sep 23, 2017 at 05:30 AM
chiron
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I was very much in your shoes, and I think a lot depends on the kind of photography you want to do. I was in Canon gear since they introduced the EF mount and their version of AF in about 1987, and I had a large collection of good gear, mostly L lenses, some of them quite expensive.

But I found the Sony cameras increasingly attractive and after I bought a NEX 7 to take traveling, I was hooked. I shot both systems for a while. The Canon lenses were great, the Canon bodies were very reliable and quick to shoot--real workhorses and very, very competent. But they also increasingly felt large and clumsy to carry all the time--especially after I wandered through Venice late one night with the NEX 7-- and the Canon sensors have lagged behind what Sony was providing for itself and to Nikon.

The Sonys are a very seductive system, and I began to build a collection of Sony lenses, but I also bought Metabones adapters to continue to use my Canon lenses. But if you don't mostly shoot on tripods, the adapters can be inelegant and sometimes awkward to use as you shift from one lens to another, having to change not only the lens but also the adapter (unless you want to buy a bunch!). In just the last few months, I began to aggressively sell off my Canon gear--some of it was very painful to let go. But it has also been liberating, and the money from the sale of the Canon gear has gone into acquiring more Sony lenses.

To take one example of how the trade-off has worked: I sold, with great pain, my Canon 11-24 F/4 L. It was a fabulous and beautiful but very heavy lens that was a pain to take anywhere or to actually use. I bought a Sony 12-24 f/4, which is outstanding optically and is a fraction of the size and weight of the Canon. I now use that lens much, much more than I ever did the Canon version. Not all Sony lenses are lighter and smaller--I sold my Canon 100-400 II and my Canon 50mm f1.2L lenses: I replaced the 50mm 1.2L, a special lens, with the Sony FE 50mm f1.4 Planar ZA, which is a wonderful lens with beautiful rendering, but similar in size. I have not yet decided whether to replace the 100-400, but if I do the Sony version has been praised by reviewers specifically in relation to the Canon version because unlike the Canon the Sony reaches peak optical performance at 400mm where users are most likely to want it. It is about the same size and weight as the Canon, perhaps a bit smaller/lighter, but every bit as good and perhaps even better optically. For another example, the Sony 35mm f1.4 is thought by many to have especially beautiful rendering; it is about the same size/weight as the Canon 35mm f1.4 II, and is not quite as sharp across the frame.

Canon makes wonderful gear, and it is hard to let such good quality stuff slip out of your hands. But if you like what Sony offers in terms of a shooting experience, size & weight, the Sony sensors, electronics like eye-focus, the advantages of IBIS, then the native lenses offer quality and a lot of advantages. I find that I have been shooting more since I have replaced my Canon gear.

If I were in your shoes now, I would try to begin acquiring quality Sony glass while continuing to shoot some of your favorite Canon gear and then see where your heart leads you. You can build a very high quality and very enjoyable kit on Sony.



Sep 23, 2017 at 11:48 AM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I had a 5D Mark IV and 5Ds along with 7 Canon lenses, 6 of which were L, and the Sigma 50 Art, 2 Canon 600EX-RT II, the ST-E3-RT, 3 Yongnuo clones and their trigger, and the Orlit RoveLight 610. So, a significant amount of gear. The 6D Mark II really opened my eyes as to the future of Canon (do as little as possible) so rather than wait for the A9R or A7RIII like I had planned I decided to sell the 5Ds and a few lenses and try the A7RII to trial the system and see how it worked for me. In a very short amount of time I realized that for much of my shooting Sony system actually worked better than Canon. So I started selling lenses and flashes like there was no tomorrow! Fast forward just a few weeks and I only have two Canon Mount lenses left, no cameras (as of Thursday), and no lighting equipment. In fact, just this week I've received the Sony equivalent of my last 2 Canon Mount lenses and I will be listing those last two lenses very soon.
For me, I don't see a future with Canon which is bittersweet as I've been with them for the last 9 years. But it just didn't make any sense to continue on with a system and a company which wasn't meeting my wants and needs.
Ultimately, I think that's what everyone needs to come to terms with when it comes to switching. Is what you are using meeting your wants and needs to the greatest degree possible compared to other brands? If it is, stay put. If it's not, then switch. Or if your needs and wants are best met by running two or more systems and you can afford to do that, then do it.



Sep 23, 2017 at 12:31 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I have absolutely no loyalty to brand or gear for that matter. I go on what I think is the best solution for me and when I switched to Sony it was at its very beginnng of release so lenses are not as plentiful as they are now . But I sold my Nikon gear as fast as I could and moved completely over and still running a busy photo business. No pain, no gain. It was painful in those times. Today I would not think twice about it. Nothing really has Sony beat except for some specialized lenses like TSE for instance. Sure there are still some lens problem areas and such but I've been able to deal with that. I mean worst case scenario we have 3 GM zooms from 16-200 stretch. That covers a lot of ground.


Sep 23, 2017 at 12:45 PM
Stoffer
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I would definitely keep the 16-35 f4 IS and 24-70 2.8 II for now and focus on changing only those that doesn't quite get the job done, like the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS. I sold my 70-200 f/2.8L II IS but still love the 24-70 2.8L II on my A7r2. Don't know why, but those two works exceedingly well together from an image quality standpoint.




Sep 23, 2017 at 12:54 PM
jlehet
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


When I sold the Nikon D800 for the A7rii, I did it for the mirrorless body (I'll never be a sports or wedding photographer, and I'll never own a DSLR again). When I switched I was quite worried about lenses. One aspect of the worry was cost.

In the end, I've never in 40 years as a photographer been happier with my lenses than I am now. Yes, I have spent a lot more money than when I owned some Nikon glass, which was a good bargain for sure. I have a couple of non-Sony Emount lenses and a bunch of adapted ones. I don't use autofocus anymore.



Sep 23, 2017 at 01:02 PM
chez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I switched from Canon to Sony a few years ago. I still have many Canon mount lenses that I use for my landscape photography. I just don't see the benefit of selling all these fine lenses at quite a loss and replacing them with new Sony mount lenses. I use manual focus off a tripod for my landscape photography so there would be zero focus benefit. I get great results with my setup of Canon mount lenses on my A7R / A7R2.

Now for travel, I have gone all E-mount glass for the better AF as well as more compact / lighter setup.



Sep 23, 2017 at 01:29 PM
 

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chiron
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


chez wrote:
I switched from Canon to Sony a few years ago. I still have many Canon mount lenses that I use for my landscape photography. I just don't see the benefit of selling all these fine lenses at quite a loss and replacing them with new Sony mount lenses. I use manual focus off a tripod for my landscape photography so there would be zero focus benefit. I get great results with my setup of Canon mount lenses on my A7R / A7R2.

Now for travel, I have gone all E-mount glass for the better AF as well as more compact /
...Show more

I see your point if you can divide your lenses up into those you use on a tripod for landscaping and those you don't. But I could never do that. There was no one item of my Canon glass that I only used on a tripod. For example, sometimes I would want my 50mm 1.2L on a tripod and sometimes I would want to take it for a walk. From the Sony side, I might sometimes want my Loxia 21mm on a tripod an other times take it traveling through a city. But one does lose money making a conversion, as one does whenever one sells a lens that was purchased new or owned for a long time.



Sep 23, 2017 at 02:22 PM
chez
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


chiron wrote:
I see your point if you can divide your lenses up into those you use on a tripod for landscaping and those you don't. But I could never do that. There was no one item of my Canon glass that I only used on a tripod. For example, sometimes I would want my 50mm 1.2L on a tripod and sometimes I would want to take it for a walk. From the Sony side, I might sometimes want my Loxia 21mm on a tripod an other times take it traveling through a city. But one does lose money making a conversion,
...Show more

Majority of my Canon mount lenses were Zeiss and were manual focus...so no different on the Sony cameras.



Sep 23, 2017 at 02:59 PM
scrappydog
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I used to shoot Canon bodies. I now shoot the A7R2 exclusively. I still have several Canon lenses: 16-35/4, 24-70/2.8 II, 40/2.8 STM, 70-200/2.8 II, 100-400 II, 500/4 II, plus the Zeiss 2/25 Distagon ZE. I use the Metabones IV.

I don't plan on selling any of my Canon lenses except the 100-400 II. The Sony equivalent looks solid, albeit expensive. I am looking to switch because I want faster AF acquisition and tracking, which is a challenge when adapting long lenses to the A7R2. Whenever I shoot wildlife, or if I don't want to change lenses, I use my Canon lenses. Even though I am limited to center zone focusing, the AF is fast, responsive, and I get great shots.

When I travel, I shoot mostly adapted Leica M-mount primes on the Techart Pro adapter. My travel kit includes the VC 15/4.5 III, Loxia 21, Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM, Zeiss 85/4 ZM. I plan to switch this up and replace the 85ZM with the VC 65/2 APO and Zeiss Batis APO 135/2.8, mostly because those two lenses appear to be amazing and because the focal lengths would be more useful for me than 85mm.

There are a few reasons why I would switch to native over my current setup.
-- The biggest reason is Eye-AF, but I don't shoot many portraits, so this isn't important to me. I would consider the Sony 85/1.8, which looks like a nice portrait lens at a reasonable price.
-- The second reason is more flexible AF system because, as noted, the A7R2/MB combo is mostly limited to center zone AF. I shoot very fast moving BIF shots with my current setup and I can keep up, even with the A7R2, so this isn't a deal breaker.
-- The third reason is simply not having to fiddle with adapters. This hasn't been as important of an issue for me as it has for others.
-- The fourth reason is if Sony came out with equivalent lenses to my setup and it made sense to switch. The 100-400 is the only lens that hits this mark, even though my Canon is a superb lens. The 70-200GM has design issues and is expensive, so I am not parting with my solid Canon equivalent. The 24-70GM looks great, but it is bigger than the Canon equivalent, it's expensive, and my Canon lens is paid for and works fine. The 16-35/4 and 16-35GM both look nice, but my Canon 16-35/4 is stellar, paid for, and it works great.

If it matters, one of my least used lenses is the Loxia 21, my only native mount lens.



Sep 23, 2017 at 03:18 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


A lot of good posts and good thoughts.

I am a hobbyist. I shoot a bit of everything, from wildlife (mostly humming birds) to a bit of macro, to landscape, and travel. But a lot of it is my kids running around, family stuff.

The a7RII with adapter, as far as AF goes, does ok for most. Of course not having Eye AF is a bit of a shame. It just does not doe well for sports/wild life.

I can continue using my 80D for that of course.

I agree, that I dont foresee selling my 16-35 f4L, or 2.8 II. The sony equivalent is not any better, and in case of the 24-70, a lot more expensive. These two lenses work very well on my a7rII with adapter.
I have the sigma 50 non art, 24LII, and 35L, 85LII. Its a question if whether I want to change any of those. I think i will hold on until sigma makes native mount art lenses for sony. Honestly, the 85LII works as well on my a7rII as it did on my 5d3, except for tracking. Hit rate is very good.
My long lenses, the 70-300L, 70-200L f4IS and f2.8IIIS, and 100-400LII, I have to figure out to trim down some. I have seen the FE 70-200 F4G. How good is that lens? how fast is the AF? some reviews said AF is not as fast as canon on DSLR. Is that true?

the 100-400G has stellar reviews wrt image quality, but the change over will cost 1000 dollars. I just dont know if that is worth it.. Part of it is I dont know if in 2 years canon is going to have its full frame mirrorless, and I will be kicking myself for selling all my lenses.



Sep 23, 2017 at 07:24 PM
Schlotkins
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


How is the AF of the 24-70 2.8 II on the a7rII? I know you are missing eyeAF as compared to the GM 24-70, but I have an amazing copy and already have a MBIV.

I'll keep an adapter around for now as I'm not going to get rid of my 17 or 24TSEs.
Chris



Sep 23, 2017 at 08:26 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


Chris, the AF-S is fantastic. The af-c is equivalent of a rebel. works, as lont as nothing moves to fast. I can easily use the small spot focus most of the time.
However, I admit the its fantastic, as long as there is good contrast. Low contrast objects, every lens struggles a bit.
the lens is wickedly sharp of course.
Here is first day of school of my 2 daughters, 70 2.8
flickr-00101 by kevindar, on Flickr

100% crop
flickr-00101-2 by kevindar, on Flickr



Sep 23, 2017 at 08:41 PM
kdrk888
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


Kevin, If you are patient, buy used Sony mount lenses, it hurts less financially. The Canon 24-70II and the 100-400 II were priced pretty much the same as their Sony counterparts when they were first introduced. You can find used Sony 24-70 GM for around $1700 on the B&S board.


Sep 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


kdrk888 wrote:
Kevin, If you are patient, buy used Sony mount lenses, it hurts less financially. The Canon 24-70II and the 100-400 II were priced pretty much the same as their Sony counterparts when they were first introduced. You can find used Sony 24-70 GM for around $1700 on the B&S board.


I paid 1600 new for both of my 100-400LII and 24-70 2.8II. but I am a deal hunter.
the 24-70G lens seems to go for 1800-1900. My 24-70 would go for 1300 used, so its a 600 dollar loss to get a native mount lens which is heavier and same size (albeit smaller with adaptor). The 100-400L simply does not do that great for tracking with adapter. I need to decide how badly I want a 100-400.



Sep 23, 2017 at 10:55 PM
Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


I decided I was okay with some IQ loss if it meant smaller, lighter lenses/combos. So rather than having the large, heavy combo of the 5D Mark IV and 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, instead I use the A7RII + FE 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 G. Yeah, I'm losing 1.3 - 2 stops and some sharpness, but I'm gaining 100 extra mm, and reducing size and weight quite a bit, not to mention the cost savings. Certainly, this is something I could do with Canon (I did own the 70-300L for a while), but I just tried my best to stick to it with Sony. The same goes for adapting lenses. I don't want to as it adds weight and length and reduces features. Sigma 50 Art adapted? No way. I went with the equally sharp 55/1.8. Yeah, it's 2/3 of a stop slower but WOW is it smaller and lighter! That 2/3 of a stop is a penalty I'm willing to pay.
I say figure out what's most important to you, and realize there will be a compromise to achieve it and if you're okay with the compromise, go for it.



Sep 24, 2017 at 12:20 AM
kevindar
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Struggling with conversion. Dual system or rip off the bandaid?


thanks Jonathan. You make very good points. I will not use the sigma 50 1.4 art b/c of its bulk. Have been however using my non art lens, that is worth all of 250 in used market, with pretty good results, albeit, its not going to be anywhere as sharp as 50 1.8. but you are right, it is all a compromise between features, size, image quality, and price. Sony lenses are just expensive. 24, 35, 50, 85, non stablized 1.8 lenses at 500 price point would be fair (they have the 85). the 35 2.8 is 800 brand new, 500 used market, where canon 35 f2 IS, which is optically very similar, and has IS and is a full stop faster is 450 new. I think sony will go a long way if they start making some high quality, f 1.8/2 lenses, which are reasonably priced.


Sep 24, 2017 at 12:32 AM
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